If they killed off a class..

[Chance]

If you're in a group of enemies, and they aren't turning around after a stab, that's more of their fault at being oblivious than your class being easy. The primary issue of Engineer is that it's easy for him to at the same time, protect buildings and be useful. How many times do you see the final point on PL get clogged with 5 engineers and as a result of that, win the game? All classes require SOME skill and all classes have their niches. Engineer however, is the only class that allows him to be extremely passive while still doing his job.

I didn't mean some skill, I meant to say that Engineer does require a good bit of skill to be good at depending on the loadout or just how you play, a good Engineer doesn't sit at one stop huddled around his buildings. A good Engineer should be following their team around with the buildings while being decent enough to be able to take out enemies without them breaking your shit.

Arguing is boring I'm just going to leave my list of hard and easy classes.

Hard to be good at.
Scout.
Medic.

Easy classes.
Every other class.

 

[Antamania]

Engi was fine before gunslinger got put in the game. It made them further more ridiculous when the short circuit got put in the game.

I don't need to say why the gunslinger is fucking stupid, anyone who plays tf2 knows this to be true already. That said, the short circuit makes no sense at all. It's something that got put in the game to counter the engineer's main weaknesses, while adding no new weaknesses for it's use. It's illogical to the rest of the sidegrades in tf2.

These two things are why Engineers ruin just about any map that there is a zerg of them on. I've already said it a million times, I would pay large sums of money for engineers to be limited on the servers of my choosing.

 

[Blade D_Hero]

Engie with the rescue ranger, short circuit and jag is stupid easy.

I honestly don't even pay attention to the game until AFK tells me I have a few seconds left to move, or if my damaged building sound plays. It's not hard to stack up kills as Engie, even when you're only 20% plugged into the game.

Don't take it out though I like engie つ ◕_◕ ༽つ

 

[Maddo]

I don't need to say why the gunslinger is fucking stupid, anyone who plays tf2 knows this to be true already.

Yes.. GS is seriously just a troll weapon, nothing else. When i play GS, I only ever use it to rack up kills, never to protect the point.

if you take the engineer away, he has no need for the sapper, and thus no use

That's a pretty good point Boss, one that I hadn't thought off. He has nothing to replace the sapper, so gets nerfed almost by proxy.

 

[CobraX]

I feel like my edgy spy main within me is awakening, and that unnatural hatred I have for engineers is coming with it.

Engineer requires the least skill out of every class. It's the only class that can be played just by doing almost nothing.

No, demoman requires the least amount of skill. Position yourself next to a dispenser on Dustbowl (stage 3 as RED), select your pipe bomb launcher, put tape on MB1, go to the toilet, come back and find out you're still alive and made a lot of kills... Or place some stickies on the wall of a small corridor, when an enemy pops up, BOOM, repeat.

Engi was fine before gunslinger got put in the game. It made them further more ridiculous when the short circuit got put in the game.

I don't need to say why the gunslinger is fucking stupid, anyone who plays tf2 knows this to be true already. That said, the short circuit makes no sense at all. It's something that got put in the game to counter the engineer's main weaknesses, while adding no new weaknesses for it's use. It's illogical to the rest of the sidegrades in tf2.

These two things are why Engineers ruin just about any map that there is a zerg of them on. I've already said it a million times, I would pay large sums of money for engineers to be limited on the servers of my choosing.

The Short Circuit is the weapon that makes the most sense and one that was really needed. On Dustbowl (stage 1) there are always 53.184 stickies, pipes, flares and rockets entering the BLU spawn. Try getting out of the spawn as BLU and staying alive for more than 5 seconds if you're not übercharged. It would be very easy to prevent BLU from capping the first CP if the Short Circuit didn't exist. Just place one or two pyros (RED) at each exit to push back übercharged enemies and for the rest spam all exits like crazy with the demoman or the soldier.

And no weaknesses for the Short Circuit? Do you have any idea how fast you're out of ammo when there are a lot of incoming projectiles?

 

[Roboute Guilliman]

No, demoman requires the least amount of skill. Position yourself next to a dispenser on Dustbowl (stage 3 as RED), select your pipe bomb launcher, put tape on MB1, go to the toilet, come back and find out you're still alive and made a lot of kills... Or place some stickies on the wall of a small corridor, when an enemy pops up, BOOM, repeat.



The Short Circuit is the weapon that makes the most sense and one that was really needed. On Dustbowl (stage 1) there are always 53.184 stickies, pipes, flares and rockets entering the BLU spawn. Try getting out of the spawn as BLU and staying alive for more than 5 seconds if you're not übercharged. It would be very easy to prevent BLU from capping the first CP if the Short Circuit didn't exist. Just place one or two pyros (RED) at each exit to push back übercharged enemies and for the rest spam all exits like crazy with the demoman or the soldier.

And no weaknesses for the Short Circuit? Do you have any idea how fast you're out of ammo when there are a lot of incoming projectiles?

Saying Demoman takes no skill because of an abusive strategy on dustbowl is the equivalent of saying Sniper is Overpowered because he can hit everyone on any CTF map.

And Short Circut.

Why the fuck do you think Engineer would need a weapon to counter his counters? It'd be like if we gave Heavy a means to survive a backstab or a Pyro to airblast bullets.

 

[Maddo]

No, demoman requires the least amount of skill. Position yourself next to a dispenser on Dustbowl (stage 3 as RED), select your pipe bomb launcher, put tape on MB1, go to the toilet, come back and find out you're still alive and made a lot of kills... Or place some stickies on the wall of a small corridor, when an enemy pops up, BOOM, repeat.

That's actually saying that Dustbowl requires the least amount of skill.

 

[Antamania]

No, demoman requires the least amount of skill. Position yourself next to a dispenser on Dustbowl (stage 3 as RED), select your pipe bomb launcher, put tape on MB1, go to the toilet, come back and find out you're still alive and made a lot of kills... Or place some stickies on the wall of a small corridor, when an enemy pops up, BOOM, repeat.



The Short Circuit is the weapon that makes the most sense and one that was really needed. On Dustbowl (stage 1) there are always 53.184 stickies, pipes, flares and rockets entering the BLU spawn. Try getting out of the spawn as BLU and staying alive for more than 5 seconds if you're not übercharged. It would be very easy to prevent BLU from capping the first CP if the Short Circuit didn't exist. Just place one or two pyros (RED) at each exit to push back übercharged enemies and for the rest spam all exits like crazy with the demoman or the soldier.

And no weaknesses for the Short Circuit? Do you have any idea how fast you're out of ammo when there are a lot of incoming projectiles?

I meant no weakness as far as balancing vs the pistol goes. The engineer doesn't give up much from switching out the pistol to the short circuit. He'd have to give up his shotgun or something for it, for me to consider it balanced. There is almost no reason to not use the short circuit over the pistol. And one engineer shouldn't be able to defend his sentry from "53.184 stickies, pipes, flares, and rockets." One engineer shouldn't be able to single-handedly defend his sentry from 4 people, that's what your team is supposed to be there for, its a team based game, and when the engineer can single-handedly deal with every threat coming at his sentry, it's broken.

For example: Soldier gives up his stock launcher, for the direct hit. He loses the ability to shoot people around corners, and splash off walls, but gains the ability to airshot better and benefits from it. Weapons in tf2 need balances and counterbalances, and there simply isn't a counterbalance to the short circuit.

 

[flanky]

I meant no weakness as far as balancing vs the pistol goes. The engineer doesn't give up much from switching out the pistol to the short circuit. He'd have to give up his shotgun or something for it, for me to consider it balanced. There is almost no reason to not use the short circuit over the pistol. And one engineer shouldn't be able to defend his sentry from "53.184 stickies, pipes, flares, and rockets." One engineer shouldn't be able to single-handedly defend his sentry from 4 people, that's what your team is supposed to be there for, its a team based game, and when the engineer can single-handedly deal with every threat coming at his sentry, it's broken.

For example: Soldier gives up his stock launcher, for the direct hit. He loses the ability to shoot people around corners, and splash off walls, but gains the ability to airshot better and benefits from it. Weapons in tf2 need balances and counterbalances, and there simply isn't a counterbalance to the short circuit.

Let's count how many broken weapons Engineer has.

Primaries:
Frontier Justice, free crits.
Pomson 6000, complete counter to spies and meds who want any bit of uber. Also a bitch to dodge.
Rescue Ranger, literally better than the wrench at repairing, and can spam heal from a mile away.

Secondaries:
Wrangler, RR+Wrangle combo is unstoppable and the ability to make a sentry have 3x health is bullshit.
Short Circuit, because of all the reasons you mentioned.

Melees:
Gunslinger, mini-sentries are the spawn of satan, and aren't easily countered by classes. Also breaking them just makes the engie place another.

That's 6/14 of his weapons being broken (not counting reskins). I'm pretty sure no other class has 43% of their weapons being unfair as fuck to use.

 

[CobraX]

I meant no weakness as far as balancing vs the pistol goes. The engineer doesn't give up much from switching out the pistol to the short circuit. He'd have to give up his shotgun or something for it, for me to consider it balanced. There is almost no reason to not use the short circuit over the pistol. And one engineer shouldn't be able to defend his sentry from "53.184 stickies, pipes, flares, and rockets." One engineer shouldn't be able to single-handedly defend his sentry from 4 people, that's what your team is supposed to be there for, its a team based game, and when the engineer can single-handedly deal with every threat coming at his sentry, it's broken.

For example: Soldier gives up his stock launcher, for the direct hit. He loses the ability to shoot people around corners, and splash off walls, but gains the ability to airshot better and benefits from it. Weapons in tf2 need balances and counterbalances, and there simply isn't a counterbalance to the short circuit.

There is a counterbalance to the Short Circuit. Any weapon that doesn't shoot projectiles. Shotgun, pistol, minigun, you name it. Also the Short Circuit runs out of ammo within a second if enough projectiles are coming its way. Sentries are btw very easy to take out if you use the Cow Mangler 5000 (second ability) with the Soldier. It disables buildings for 4 seconds during which any class is good enough to damage the buildings.

 

[Roboute Guilliman]

There is a counterbalance to the Short Circuit. Any weapon that doesn't shoot projectiles. Shotgun, pistol, minigun, you name it. Also the Short Circuit runs out of ammo within a second if enough projectiles are coming its way. Sentries are btw very easy to take out if you use the Cow Mangler 5000 (second ability) with the Soldier. It disables buildings for 4 seconds during which any class is good enough to damage the buildings.

When was the last time you used a shotgun to destroy a level three sentry? Or a pistol? Hell, when was the last time a Heavy was able to kill a level three without a medic? The short circuit makes the most effective engineer counter into the least effective.

Cow Mangler to destroy sentry? Sucks to be you because RELOAD.

Short Circuit runs out of ammo within a second? Mouse wheel and back. You have full ammo again.

Short Circuit is overpowered for this reason. It takes Engineer's biggest weakness, and turns him into a joke. No other class has ANYTHING remotely on that line.

Sniper has Razorback? He sacrifices his secondary.

Spy has Spy-cicle? He sacrifices 10 seconds of effectiveness.

Pyro has flaregun? He sacrifices his ability to deal with other pyros.

Engineer has Short-circuit? He gives up a secondary he inherently will never use.

 

[Terrapieseven]

short circuit still makes soldiers (no shotgun) and demos literally useless
also how is cow mangler easy for taking out sentries if you can literally render alt fire useless

 

[Antamania]

There is a counterbalance to the Short Circuit. Any weapon that doesn't shoot projectiles. Shotgun, pistol, minigun, you name it. Also the Short Circuit runs out of ammo within a second if enough projectiles are coming its way. Sentries are btw very easy to take out if you use the Cow Mangler 5000 (second ability) with the Soldier. It disables buildings for 4 seconds during which any class is good enough to damage the buildings.

You're still not quite understanding the point I'm trying to make. There is literally no reason to keep the pistol over choosing the short circuit, which is a problem.

 

[Chance]

When was the last time you used a shotgun to destroy a level three sentry? Or a pistol?

All the time with pistols, usually on Upward the sentries are out in the open so it doesn't take long to pick it off.

 

[Roboute Guilliman]

All the time with pistols, usually on Upward the sentries are out in the open so it doesn't take long to pick it off.

Well that's a different story of the engineer putting it down in a bad place as opposed to a weapon geared for sentry busting.

 

[Terrapieseven]

i'm pretty sure an engie pressing m1 on their sentry would fix the pistol 'problem'

 

[Chance]

i'm pretty sure an engie pressing m1 on their sentry would fix the pistol 'problem'

Most of them don't, which isn't too surprising because most pub Engineers are god awful.

 

[SuperNewman]

There is a counterbalance to the Short Circuit. Any weapon that doesn't shoot projectiles. Shotgun, pistol, minigun, you name it. Also the Short Circuit runs out of ammo within a second if enough projectiles are coming its way. Sentries are btw very easy to take out if you use the Cow Mangler 5000 (second ability) with the Soldier. It disables buildings for 4 seconds during which any class is good enough to damage the buildings.

Cow Mangler, for taking out sentries?

Do you even play TF2? lol.

 

[CobraX]

When was the last time you used a shotgun to destroy a level three sentry? Or a pistol? Hell, when was the last time a Heavy was able to kill a level three without a medic? The short circuit makes the most effective engineer counter into the least effective.

Cow Mangler to destroy sentry? Sucks to be you because RELOAD.

Short Circuit runs out of ammo within a second? Mouse wheel and back. You have full ammo again.

Short Circuit is overpowered for this reason. It takes Engineer's biggest weakness, and turns him into a joke. No other class has ANYTHING remotely on that line.

Sniper has Razorback? He sacrifices his secondary.

Spy has Spy-cicle? He sacrifices 10 seconds of effectiveness.

Pyro has flaregun? He sacrifices his ability to deal with other pyros.

Engineer has Short-circuit? He gives up a secondary he inherently will never use.

Maybe you're not getting the point. A sentry isn't a device that was made in such a way that any class could easily kill it on its own. You need teamwork for it (and yes I'm ignoring the corner strafing with a Demoman or Soldier which works fine if the Engineer doesn't have the Short Circuit). Also try reading my complete post next time.

There is a counterbalance to the Short Circuit. Any weapon that doesn't shoot projectiles. Shotgun, pistol, minigun, you name it. Also the Short Circuit runs out of ammo within a second if enough projectiles are coming its way. Sentries are btw very easy to take out if you use the Cow Mangler 5000 (second ability) with the Soldier. It disables buildings for 4 seconds during which any class is good enough to damage the buildings.

That means Soldier A uses the Cow Mangler 5000 to disable a sentry for 4 seconds. Then teammate A (and possibly B, C and D) come in and finish the job (even all melee style if they want to).

Also, the "mouse wheel and back" is bullshit. It takes time to refill your metal. By the time it's refilled you've already eaten 9 beggar's bazooka rockets or a few arrows. You clearly have no idea how fast the Short Circuit is out of ammo when encountering 2-5 spamming Soldiers or Demomen. The only place where it works relatively easy is inside your spawn on Dustbowl (stage 1). But that's a good thing, because shooting inside the spawn is a thing that should never have been allowed by Valve.

Also one on one (as in killing the enemy) the Short Circuit is crap. Does little damage. I've been killed multiple times by SMART Soldiers who switched to the shotgun when I was using the Short Circuit. They got me almost every time.

short circuit still makes soldiers (no shotgun) and demos literally useless
also how is cow mangler easy for taking out sentries if you can literally render alt fire useless

Like I said before, read my whole post and not only one sentence of it. Also if the soldier decides to not equip the shotgun, then that's his choice. A choice that has consequences. Don't like the consequences? Then equip the shotgun...

Again, it doesn't make demomen useless. It makes them useless for about 1 second if enough demomen are spamming all over the place.

All the time with pistols, usually on Upward the sentries are out in the open so it doesn't take long to pick it off.

Finally someone who gets it. I've seen Scouts and Spies kill sentries with a bare pistol.

 

[SuperNewman]

Finally someone who gets it. I've seen Scouts and Spies kill sentries with a bare pistol.

That only happens if the Engineer is dead, or a potato.