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ly_dee

Epic Skial Regular
Contributor
I initially wanted the rule to be removed but it'd make skial a homophobic and sexist community..

The rule is too vague. I've never seen an admin punish someone for insulting a female, for instance. Everytime someone reports a person for sexism/discrimination (which is rare), most admins say "client mute". So why is there a rule in the first place? You should specify exactly what is meant by insults, just like how you specified what racism is by providing examples.

When people type in !rules or go on skial.com to check the server rules they see that insults to gender and sexual orientations are against the rules. Insults means what it means. So if we followed that guideline, any kind of insult would be worth reporting. Then admins would be overwhelmed by the amount of reports from fragile souls that can't handle trash talks.

It's tricky to enforce such a rule due to the degree of the insults, so at least make it clear once and for all so nobody brings this topic up again and makes a debate about it. Players are not familiar with skial's policy on the matter. They don't know what is considered "serious insults". You need to inform them better. Maybe there is a reason why people don't even bother reporting cases of insults because they always end up being declined. It can be frustrating as they think they're doing good by reporting something that is against the rules by definition but then get told that it's not "serious" enough. So maybe having something like

Racism and other insults to gender, religion and sexual orientation. Does not include discussion of why it is against the rules.
  • Any form of the word nigger (nigga, nigg, etc.) is not allowed even if you are just quoting a rap song or you are black, to prevent racists and kids using the same excuse.
  • Generic insults are allowed (faggot, whore, etc.)
  • Insults like "you cock thirsty slut shouldn't play video games and should go clean your house instead then spread your legs afterwards so your bf can reward you for your good work", "don't use your mic you fucking queer, you're spreading aids to all the people in the server because of all the cocks that have entered your nasty asshole. You faggots need to die for the straight people to live in a better place", etc. may result in silences.
would be better.

EDIT: to sum up, either modify by adding at least one bullet point to clarify, because skial is not enforcing the rule whatsoever, or even remove it completely.
 
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Maddo

Gaben's Own Aimbot
Contributor
If this were a rule, then porn sprays should be banned because it's "discrimination" towards them. No moderator here would ban for that (unless their feminists).
It is a rule, it's just worded differently. Also, 'them' in porn sprays are being exploited, not discriminated against.

This wouldn't change anything. The main "problem" is distinguishing generic insults from "serious" insults.
The main problem is that 'insult' is being confused with discrimination.
 

Luke

Legendary Skial King
Contributor
It is a rule, it's just worded differently. Also, 'them' in porn sprays are being exploited, not discriminated against.


The main problem is that 'insult' is being confused with discrimination.

Your rule made it against the rules to discuss the rule, for instance saying "Please don't say nigger" would be enough to silence someone- this isn't how it should be. Furthermore, what is the difference in your mind between "insult" and "discrimination" ?
 

ly_dee

Epic Skial Regular
Contributor
The main problem is that 'insult' is being confused with discrimination.
So why do you want to confuse people more? If you change "insult" to "discrimination", someone who got insulted for being a female gamer/gay will still make a report and say it's discrimination, i.e same thing to them.
 

Roboute Guilliman

Australian Skial God
Contributor
My two cents is that we should highlight the differences between shittalk and what we'd consider to be a crossing the line. This I believe should be enforced by common sense. Saying "Sup my nigga" does no harm, to which I believe shouldn't warrant action. Saying "let's go lynch some niggers" should easily result in admin action.
 

Maddo

Gaben's Own Aimbot
Contributor
So why do you want to confuse people more? If you change "insult" to "discrimination", someone who got insulted for being a female gamer/gay will still make a report and say it's discrimination, i.e same thing to them.
Is there something wrong with asking a female gamer to make me a sandwich?
Can I say "you are a stupid slut"
Can I say "Why do women have periods? Cause they deserve them."
Can I say "I bet your tits are fun to play with"
Can I say "so you're a shitstabber then."
Can I say "Gay men can be such a pain in the ass"
Can I say "rug-munching diesel dyke"
Can I say "You have to be gay or a woman to like OITNB"
Can I say "Your mum is like all other women, a bit of anal and she'll be worshiping my cock forever"

Tell me, is 'insults' not where the confusion lies, what is insulting to one is not to another, and a lot of insults are just stereotyping. Whereas "discrimination" has a definitive meaning.
People will always make reports because they have gotten hurt feelings, I don't see where the use of either wording would stop players reporting others who bruise their fragile egos.

Your rule made it against the rules to discuss the rule, for instance saying "Please don't say nigger" would be enough to silence someone- this isn't how it should be. Furthermore, what is the difference in your mind between "insult" and "discrimination" ?

That doesn't make it against the rules to discuss the rule, for that you would need to add a rule saying "discussion of the word nigger is not allowed".
"Discussion of why it is against the rules" is already covered by the fact that that type of discussion it is not discrimination.

Insult = to do or say something that is offensive to (someone) : to do or say something that shows a lack of respect for (someone)
Discriminate = to unfairly treat a person or group of people differently from other people or groups.
 

Maddo

Gaben's Own Aimbot
Contributor
In which category falls 'nigger', and 'faggot'
There is a separate rule for the word 'nigger'
And stop being a faggot, asking about 'faggot', Skial can't decide if this is offensive or not (goddam bunch of slack jaw faggots)
 

ly_dee

Epic Skial Regular
Contributor
Tell me, is 'insults' not where the confusion lies, what is insulting to one is not to another, and a lot of insults are just stereotyping. Whereas "discrimination" has a definitive meaning.
People will always make reports because they have gotten hurt feelings, I don't see where the use of either wording would stop players reporting others who bruise their fragile egos.

I can guarantee you, people won't make any difference between insults and discrimination and it will be subject to more debate.

I'll stand by my point, the rule only needs a bullet point to make everything clearer and would follow the logic of the other rules. A bullet point that distinguishes generic from serious insults just like the lame examples i provided. I don't know why it would be that big of a deal to add one damn extra bullet point. Also, you would probaby have less reports in my opinion because some people still read the rules before reporting. For instance, this person here used the rules to validate her argument then made report.

If it takes up too much space on the server rules page then might as well remove all the other bullet points/examples.
 

Luke

Legendary Skial King
Contributor
Is there something wrong with asking a female gamer to make me a sandwich?
Can I say "you are a stupid slut"
Can I say "Why do women have periods? Cause they deserve them."
Can I say "I bet your tits are fun to play with"
Can I say "so you're a shitstabber then."
Can I say "Gay men can be such a pain in the ass"
Can I say "rug-munching diesel dyke"
Can I say "You have to be gay or a woman to like OITNB"
Can I say "Your mum is like all other women, a bit of anal and she'll be worshiping my cock forever"

Tell me, is 'insults' not where the confusion lies, what is insulting to one is not to another, and a lot of insults are just stereotyping. Whereas "discrimination" has a definitive meaning.
People will always make reports because they have gotten hurt feelings, I don't see where the use of either wording would stop players reporting others who bruise their fragile egos.



That doesn't make it against the rules to discuss the rule, for that you would need to add a rule saying "discussion of the word nigger is not allowed".
"Discussion of why it is against the rules" is already covered by the fact that that type of discussion it is not discrimination.

Insult = to do or say something that is offensive to (someone) : to do or say something that shows a lack of respect for (someone)
Discriminate = to unfairly treat a person or group of people differently from other people or groups.

Surely I would be discriminating if I treated a person differently from others by calling them a "faggot"?
 

Sargent¥

Australian Skial God
Contributor
I can guarantee you, people won't make any difference between insults and discrimination and it will be subject to more debate.
Then we can just decline the report or ban request and explain why. You're assuming people are dumb as the justification for not changing the word. If someone can find the forums, complete a report and submit it, they're not dumb. Even if they are what you assume, eventually they'll catch on, which happens when something changes, people simply need to learn to adapt to it.
 
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Maddo

Gaben's Own Aimbot
Contributor
I for one can't think of an insult to gender that would / should be reportable.
When I was a kid we used to say the rhyme:
Sticks and stones may break my bones, but names can never hurt me.

Kids get it, so why can't you older bunch grasp the (basic) concept that there is a difference between calling names and treating someone unfairly because of how they were born?

Some people are being overly pedantic twats and talking pure shit in the hope of justifying their viewpoint.
People will always make reports when someone makes a remark that puts their nose out of joint, this I can guarantee.
 

JayDee

Gaben's Own Aimbot
Contributor
I for one can't think of an insult to gender that would / should be reportable.
When I was a kid we used to say the rhyme:
Sticks and stones may break my bones, but names can never hurt me.

Kids get it, so why can't you older bunch grasp the (basic) concept that there is a difference between calling names and treating someone unfairly because of how they were born?

Some people are being overly pedantic twats and talking pure shit in the hope of justifying their viewpoint.
People will always make reports when someone makes a remark that puts their nose out of joint, this I can guarantee.
exactly
exactly
exactly

exactly
 

Renegade

Australian Skial God
Contributor
Well for one thing, that's just one report. Can't really use that as an argument.

I for one can't think of an insult to gender that would / should be reportable.

Kids get it, so why can't you older bunch grasp the (basic) concept that there is a difference between calling names and treating someone unfairly because of how they were born?
 

Sargent¥

Australian Skial God
Contributor
This isn't an explanation and it doesn't need an explanation. There's a time and place for everything. In this scenario, it's just a matter of "can the reporter take a hit or not" and whether they can deal with it the easy way or the hard way (client mute or report). I'm not encouraging sexual insults but there's several facts if we're comparing racism and sexism
  1. Racism happens WAY more often than sexism, dig through our bans or reports and appeals and that's clear. It's also why it needs to be boldly written as it's own bullet.
  2. Very frequently with scenarios with sexism, it's targeted at one or two people who, in return, show a personal dislike towards the user and make a report instead of just client muting.
  3. With racism, there is a multitude of nationalities/groups that can be offended, I don't need to go off listing them. In the case of sexism, it's either you're insulted as a boy or a girl, it's a 50/50 which is too large to simply be picking on one thing they say.
 

Tayto

Totally Ordinary Human
Contributor
What's the point of the rule being there if it's never going to be enforced?
 

Renegade

Australian Skial God
Contributor
You're not going to see people harm or kill each other over sexism.


At least, I hope not.
 

Biggie

Forum Admin
Contributor
I think we need to either remove the rule completely or start enforcing it. No matter what others beliefs are. It's there for a reason.
 
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