Approved Dustbowl respawn timers?

[Luckyboxes]

Hey, I was playing on the dustbowl US21 server last night as usual but it seemed like the spawn timers were off. Before it was always fast but I had respawns that were 18s long. Has something changed recently, either accidentally or on purpose?

Found it super hard to get anywhere on the map with such a long blue respawn rate.

Thanks.

 

[Bottiger]

I was on US21 for a good six hours or so yesterday. We got to stage three three times, and none of those times did blu win. On a normal day we see stage three a lot more than that in 6 hours, and blu will win at least a couple times.

There was a lot of complaining about the respawn times, and not a single person said they liked the new respawn times. I think it was Gator (in any case, it was a good player) who said he probably wasn't coming back to the server for a long time because of the spawn time change. I'm talking about someone who hardly dies, but just can't get anywhere on BLU because half of his team is dead at any given point in time.

I found it much more difficult to attack with the default spawn times (the new ones) than it was to attack with instant respawn, and the rest of the server agreed. Someone was saying it should have been longer spawn times for red but still instant spawn for blu. I think instant spawn for both teams is best, but in any case, the blu spawn time needs to be cut.

I know people were saying to put the spawn times to default, but I disagreed then and I disagree now.


It doesn't matter whether you can stay alive if the rest of your team is waiting to spawn.

TL;DR : I don't care that you think default is better than instant for blu, because blu was way harder with default spawn times, in a shitty way I've never seen on skial. Not challenging, just frustratingly hard.

If he had such a big problem with the respawn change, why didn't he say anything about it on the forums?

 

[Mikhail_Grabovski]

From pretty much my first time playing on this server I've suggested that the red respawn times should to be set back to default. It was clear that there was too much incentive to play on red, which led to all sorts of problems. I don't know how many times I've seen the blue team just empty out over the course of one round because they were stuck attacking the fourth or sixth point of dustbowl. Some players were notorious for switching to red in advantageous situations.

I was under the impression that the 'default' blue spawn time on dustbowl was roughly 4-6 seconds. Dustbowl on TF2 console games used about 4-6 for blue and 12-15 for red, and while we all know the console versions pale in comparison, I think those times are ideal. I can't emphasize enough how important it is to leave the red spawn time as it is now, but I agree that the default for blue is far too long and should be returned to its former setting. Making that change would significantly improve the balance of play IMO.

 

[Crimson]

Grabovski is 100% correct. Long respawn time for Blu make it extremely hard to impossible to cap the final point of a 2CP map because Red spawns right by the point and can come out to defend it almost immediately after spawning. Blu has to traverse the map and therefore needs a higher flow rate of bodies (which is accomplished by shorter spawn times). This increased flow rate also helps prevent spawn camping at the first point of a stage because you spend more time flooding their spawncamp and less time watching the respawn timer. The capping the last point of stage 3 with two teams of ~equal skill level is basically impossible for Blu with any spawn times other than the stock times aforementioned by Grabovski.

 

[Twine]

Just now, within 30 seconds of joining the server I heard someone complain about the new respawn times :P Also, I think Grabovski's got the right idea.

 

[Nothing_Much]

I want the respawn times back the way it was before!

Sheesh, isn't the US29 server supposed to have that stuff? I WANT MY ADRENALINE RUSH >:(

 

[Boldat]

I too liked the respawn times as they were before. On the server earlier, someone , I dont remember who, was trying to get some people to voice their opinions on the forums and there was a decent amount of responce. Dont really know if that means anything.

 

[Twine]

I just opened the .vmf file for dustbowl that valve supplies, in hammer. The logic_auto entity sets blu's respawn time to 2 on trigger "MultiNewMap" (when the map is loaded). I could not find *any* other entities that changed spawn times in the map (also, no spawn times were set in the map for red, meaning it would get set to the game's default value).

I also downloaded entspy and gcfscape, extracted cp_dustbowl.bsp from tf2's .ncf file, and found that the file in-game is the same as the vmf. The logic_auto entity has "tf_gamerules,setblueteamrespawnwavetime,2,0,-1" as a trigger on map start (set blu's spawn time to 2). There is no alternate "server" map (I have the dedicated server installed as well), so this is what the spawn time is supposed to be for blu.

The reason why the spawn times are rediculous is because 20 seconds is not the default time for blu. This is precisely what the official tf2 wiki says, as well. The actual respawnwavetime for blu should be 2, and for red should be 10 (meaning max spawn times are 4 and 20 seconds, respectively).

 

[Osprey]

I just opened the .vmf file for dustbowl that valve supplies, in hammer. The logic_auto entity sets blu's respawn time to 2 on trigger "MultiNewMap" (when the map is loaded). I could not find *any* other entities that changed spawn times in the map (also, no spawn times were set in the map for red, meaning it would get set to the game's default value).

I also downloaded entspy and gcfscape, extracted cp_dustbowl.bsp from tf2's .ncf file, and found that the file in-game is the same as the vmf. The logic_auto entity has "tf_gamerules,setblueteamrespawnwavetime,2,0,-1" as a trigger on map start (set blu's spawn time to 2). There is no alternate "server" map (I have the dedicated server installed as well), so this is what the spawn time is supposed to be for blu.

The reason why the spawn times are rediculous is because 20 seconds is not the default time for blu. This is precisely what the official tf2 wiki says, as well. The actual respawnwavetime for blu should be 2, and for red should be 10 (meaning max spawn times are 4 and 20 seconds, respectively).

Awesome! That's great work, Mr. Twine. I had a hunch that Blu spawn times needed to be shorter, but here's the definitive proof.

 

[lpN]

First post on skial. and yes although with 4+ medics it is possible for blue to push with a 15 sec spawn time. but totally agree 5 seconds for blue and 15 seconds for red will be fair. most of the time red will spawn camp and get the most kills anyway

 

[[TC]CreepingDeath]

Yeah, I've been playing on US21 tonight and the new respawn time is making offense more difficult than it needs to be. I think it should be set to the map default that Twine pointed out.

 

[Genocide]

Instant respawns on Dustbowl, especially since it's a 16v16 dustbowl, are rather imbalanced in RED's favor.

It is only imbalanced if you suck. I never have any problems ravaging reds defense.

 

[Bottiger]

The wiki is wrong. The respawn times are completely default right now. We are not using any plugins to modify the respawn time.

 

[Osprey]

I think the current, longer times are more balanced than the old times. The longer respawn hurts Red more because setting up gear is more critical on defense and when an engineer is out for 20 seconds it hurts. Before, you would kill three sentries and three more would pop up so quickly that you couldn't keep a push going. The new times leave more room for caps because the gear stays down longer. Red could make up for this with better class selection (don't go too heavy on the engineers and be sure to have medics) and choosing loadouts with better survivability (black box, persian persuader, etc...).

edit: They can't completely make up for it though. Longer spawn times favor Blu.

 

[[TC]CreepingDeath]

Yeah, I guess they do favor blue... Last night while I was on blue my KDR was blowing up, but when I was on red it was my average.

 

[Luckyboxes]

So, is the server staying the way it is now?

I remember popular voting turning US11 back into a Gravelpit server.

 

[Osprey]

So, is the server staying the way it is now?

I remember popular voting turning US11 back into a Gravelpit server.

Why would Bottiger change it back? The map is more balanced with the current, longer respawn times.

 

[Ruelel]

Why would Bottiger change it back? The map is more balanced with the current, longer respawn times.

attack shouldnt have that long of respawn times

 

[Osprey]

attack shouldnt have that long of respawn times

I'm all for trying that out but I think Luckyboxes wants the old, shorter respawn times back. That hurts Blu.

 

[Ruelel]

I'm all for trying that out but I think Luckyboxes wants the old, shorter respawn times back. That hurts Blu.

personally i'd like 7-10 seconds on defense and 3-5 seconds on offense.

 

[Osprey]

personally i'd like 7-10 seconds on defense and 3-5 seconds on offense.

Those could work but I don't know if the server can do two different times. If the times have to be even, longer is better for Blu and, therefore, for balance.