Zombie Escape
- Thread starter Bottiger
- Start date
Bottiger
Administrator
New Update
- Spy disguises should now properly have voodoo cursed soul applied to them
- Spy knives now apply on-kill effects on a backstab as well.
- Sappers have been replaced with a throwable cleaver from VSH2.
- Sentries shoot once every 0.6 seconds, knockback has been buffed to compensate.
- Syringe guns and smgs now shoot 50% slower.
Demoknight with the Eyelander/Headtaker/etc is ridiculously broken, at least when he is the "last survivor". I just saw one completing an entire stage of ze_santassination by himself, killing zombies like flies. Please find a way to keep him balanced ASAP.
EDIT: I should note that the demoknight in my example had the Regeneration power-up from the Mannpower mode. This isn't a hack, as ze_santassination spawns these power-ups. Maybe that particular item/power-up combination is broken by itself.
EDIT: I should note that the demoknight in my example had the Regeneration power-up from the Mannpower mode. This isn't a hack, as ze_santassination spawns these power-ups. Maybe that particular item/power-up combination is broken by itself.
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LordM
Mildly Menacing Medic
Santassination is going to have the TF2 powerups replaced with the ones that were in the CSGO version of the map in its next update.
Humans almost always loose on that map.
Exceptions: hiding, zombie compliance, large amounts of Pyro/Heavy/Demo, Scout doesn't take power up
Exceptions: hiding, zombie compliance, large amounts of Pyro/Heavy/Demo, Scout doesn't take power up
Bottiger
Administrator
This is a list of updates made in the last couple of days. I might have forgotten a few things. As always, many changes are made and some of them are removed, so it is a bit of a hassle to write a change log.
- Zombies do not take horizontal knockback while on ladders or steep inclines. Horizontal knockback is also highly limited while in the air. This removes a lot of frustration people had with been blown away as a zombie. However this seems to be a large buff for zombies, so humans needed to be buffed.
- Shotguns and scatterguns have increased attack speed. I noticed a lot of people using these weapons even though they are very weak. So this should make scouts more useful as well.
- FAN and rocket launcher clip size increased.
- Default infect time increased back to 20 seconds with it remaining 10 seconds for a few human favored maps like shoplift and voodoo.
- Minigun attack speed and range penalty removed.
- SMG and syringegun attack speed penalty removed.
- Spy Kunai attack speed doubled.
- Heavy and soldier speeds increased. Equalizer and GRU move speed reduced so people don't move faster than scouts. Scout speed reduced to slightly faster than medic.
- Many people chose scout because it was the fastest class by far and many people refused to play heavy and soldier even though heavy is probably the most crucial class because the team always left them behind to die. This speed increase will cause less people to spam scout while making it more rewarding to play heavy and soldier without having to rely on your team to save you.
- Removed the home run sound when stunned. Added scream and sandvich eating sound with a blood spurt animation to fit the theme of the game better.
- Fixed rare instances where weapons would fail to be blocked or modified.
- Spy disguise and cloak removed and disabled as the last survivor.
- Subway rolled back to v4 for being too difficult for now.
- Icecap now has a timed wall on the left to make the boats a viable choice.
- Agility rune is now blocked on all maps. This allowed people to exploit maps.
- Laboratoire reworked for more balance.
Polaris
Wicked Nasty Engineer
If you hit a zombie with a melee weapon you push him away.
I think that would be cool. I got that idea from a lot of CSS Zombie Mode servers.
Maybe we should do different options like in those servers to make it different and make more people play. I don't know if it's a good idea but people wont play a 6 player server with the same stuff than another one with 24 or 30 players. Maybe a different gameplay can change it all.
Maybe it's stupid but I do really wanna see this growing.
I think that would be cool. I got that idea from a lot of CSS Zombie Mode servers.
Maybe we should do different options like in those servers to make it different and make more people play. I don't know if it's a good idea but people wont play a 6 player server with the same stuff than another one with 24 or 30 players. Maybe a different gameplay can change it all.
Maybe it's stupid but I do really wanna see this growing.
Bottiger
Administrator
There is no list and we are already using all the public TF2 ze maps. You can't just use maps from csgo or css, they need to be ported.
Bottiger
Administrator
Updates
- Many movement boosts have been nerfed because they were too unbalanced either leading to zombies that were impossible to escape from, or zombies being permanently behind the humans for the entire game.
- Disciplinary action has been removed. It gave a massive speed boost that could not be lowered. It was basically an instant loss for any team that did not have it.
- Medic base move speed lowered to 105% instead of 107% so scouts are faster.
- Overdose has been nerfed so it will only be a little faster at max move speed.
- These changes solve the problem of zombies too far behind. But some maps will still have issues as there are not enough extra spawn locations.
- Zombies move 5% faster than humans.
- Removed snare from flames and given to everyone for all direct damage done.
- Reduced knockback on all weapons to compensate.
- Map Updates: Laboratoire, Icecap, Cruise, Tramway, Expedition.
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Bottiger
Administrator
Updates
- Almost all zombies now have special abilities called mutations. You can activate them at 100 enzyme. You gain enzyme slowly over time, or more rapidly by taking damage. Abilities will cost all your enyzme and some of them may even cost health. Descriptions of your mutation are printed in chat.
- Attempted to fix broken ladder plugin made by LordM.
- To climb these ladders, press W and look upwards. Found in jurassic and maybe other maps.
- Attempted to fix broken boss hp bar plugin made by LordM.
- Icecap and Challenger updated to be easier for humans.
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Bottiger
Administrator
Update
- Ladder plugin confirmed to be fixed. See it in action on Jurassic.
- Boss hp bar confirmed to be fixed. See it in action on Skyrim.
- Infected Tramway made easier for humans.
- New map Minecraft Adventure added.
- Crystallize mutation moved from soldier to heavy. Soldier now has another mutation.
The Gibus Man
Scarcely Lethal Noob
I have some suggestions on mutation buffs for Soldier, Pyro, and Sniper:
Soldier
- Currently: Applies an AoE smokescreen that blocks the vision of humans and zombies. While it allows zombies to 'sneak around', it doesn't do much besides that.
> Suggestion 1: Make the smoke last longer (5secs?) and create 'puffs' of smoke when the soldier moves. Also, allow Zombies to see through the smoke. This creates a smoke trial, allowing zombies more room to 'sneak' and forces humans to guess where zombies are moving preventing focus fire.
> Suggestion 2: Replace the smokescreen with an aura effect. The aura increases nearby zombie speeds (+30%?) for 2-3secs but stuns the soldier.
Pyro
- Currently: Applies an AoE explosion dealing afterburn to humans and reducing the Pyro's HP to 150(?). The dmg is very underwhelming and the downside for using it is too high; the Pyro dies shortly after using it and, effectively, accomplishes nothing.
> Suggestion: Remove, or reduce, the HP reduction on the pyro and add explosive dmg (30dmg?) when used; similar to the Gas Passer in mvm.
Sniper
- Currently: Applies a jarate AoE. Practically useless as most humans die in one hit so the mini-crit doesn't help. It can combo with Medic and Pyro mutation but thats rather situational.
> Suggestion: Reduce the movement speed of humans affected by it (-20% move speed?). This allows zombies to more easily catch up to humans, but still allows humans to fight back.
Soldier
- Currently: Applies an AoE smokescreen that blocks the vision of humans and zombies. While it allows zombies to 'sneak around', it doesn't do much besides that.
> Suggestion 1: Make the smoke last longer (5secs?) and create 'puffs' of smoke when the soldier moves. Also, allow Zombies to see through the smoke. This creates a smoke trial, allowing zombies more room to 'sneak' and forces humans to guess where zombies are moving preventing focus fire.
> Suggestion 2: Replace the smokescreen with an aura effect. The aura increases nearby zombie speeds (+30%?) for 2-3secs but stuns the soldier.
Pyro
- Currently: Applies an AoE explosion dealing afterburn to humans and reducing the Pyro's HP to 150(?). The dmg is very underwhelming and the downside for using it is too high; the Pyro dies shortly after using it and, effectively, accomplishes nothing.
> Suggestion: Remove, or reduce, the HP reduction on the pyro and add explosive dmg (30dmg?) when used; similar to the Gas Passer in mvm.
Sniper
- Currently: Applies a jarate AoE. Practically useless as most humans die in one hit so the mini-crit doesn't help. It can combo with Medic and Pyro mutation but thats rather situational.
> Suggestion: Reduce the movement speed of humans affected by it (-20% move speed?). This allows zombies to more easily catch up to humans, but still allows humans to fight back.
FrostyBoiGrim
Scarcely Lethal Noob
I agree with Gibus, and have some change/balance ideas for humans
Scout - Buff
Problem: In his current state, Scout is by far the worst survivor class. His ability to double jump seems to change from map to map, and his speed is reduced, making the entire point of his character moot.
Solution: If scout cant have higher mobility because it breaks some maps, make him lower the mobility of zombies or heighten the teams mobility as a whole. Mad milk could provide a slowing effect, or bonk/crit a cola could have a similar effect to the conch where it speeds up teammates in your immediate area as well as yourself. Make him feel and act more like the scout without sacrificing map integrity.
Soldier - Small Buff
Problem: Soldier is strong, but has what feels like a very solved meta of stock launcher, conch, and escape plan.
Solution: Make other weapons more unique and viable. Direct hit has only 4 rockets with small blast radius but increased damage and more noticeable stun effect, as well as full crit on airshot. Make the Equalizer do much more damage at lower health, for instance when a soldier can be 1 shot by a zombie (say below 25% hp) make it so he can 2-3 tap melee a zombie. Make the bison do a lot of knockback but at the price of 1 ammo per clip and a long reload time. Give soldier something that mixes up the meta.
Pyro - Small Nerf
Problem: Right now Pyro can be incredibly strong when hanging out at the back of the surviving party. His slowdown mechanic when lighting enemies on fire and airblast are incredibly useful.
Solution: Pyro needs either less total ammo or for airblast to cost more ammo, perhaps instead of 20 it cost 50 and has a longer cooldown but sends zombies further. Alternatively the burn slowdown/time could be reduced, meaning zombies arent effected for as long or as heavily from a Pyro who has since ran away.
Demoman - Nerf
Problem: I would argue that currently the strongest solo class is Donk Hybrid Knight Demo. He can deal incredible knockback, insane DPS, has the furthest melee reach, and has the charge uber as a safety net for any interaction that goes south. He also is by far the strongest LMS and can go on insane killstreaks on some maps.
Solution: Buff the knockback on normal grenades, reduce the knockback on the loose cannon, but buff it on double donks. Give Demo a limited number of charge ubers per round that scales with the number of players. More players means more charges, up to a max of something like 6 with max players. Buff shield bash damage.
Heavy - Nerf
Problem: Heavys in a group are more terrifying than any zombie or Santa that gets stuck in the wall after killing Mufasa. He has insane knockback and can heal almost as much as an engineer.
Solution: Zombies build up resistance to Heavys stream the longer theyre stuck in it. I was personally thinking of it like this:
Engineer - N/A
Is fine as is right now. Fun and strong but not really OP.
Medic - N/A
He just got nerfed like in the last 24 hours and is already more balanced. Maybe a bit more tweaking could be done but balancing Medic is nigh impossible and what we have right now is just fine
Sniper - Nerf
Problem: Sniper is strong however he mostly takes skill, that is until a zombie gets a bit to close and he takes out his pocket heavy.
Solution: Reduce the knockback from the SMG enough to where its viable but isnt just a cheap trick that sniper can use to keep individual zombies or small groups away from him. Thats all. Just dont have the SMG be so strong, especially when he isnt LMS.
Spy - Buff (suprised me honestly)
Problem: If you would have asked me about class/weapon balancing yesterday, I would have said the biggest problem is spy and his throwing knife. Apparently though, sometime between last night and right now, the throwing knife was entirely removed.
Solution: Spy is now the hardest to play class, and while there is a high reward, on 90% of maps there is no reason to choose him over another DPS or support class. He needs something more substantial than the revolver. The throwing knife, while OP, was still unique, fun, and gave spy a greater role. I think the best thing would be to bring it back with much less ammo so that it needed to recharge, and maybe reduce the fire rate by 25-50%.
Well thats my thoughts on all of the survivor classes and how they could be changed to be more balanced or more fun. Im planning on making one about maps after Ive collected more opinions from other active members on the server. Stay frosty!
Scout - Buff
Problem: In his current state, Scout is by far the worst survivor class. His ability to double jump seems to change from map to map, and his speed is reduced, making the entire point of his character moot.
Solution: If scout cant have higher mobility because it breaks some maps, make him lower the mobility of zombies or heighten the teams mobility as a whole. Mad milk could provide a slowing effect, or bonk/crit a cola could have a similar effect to the conch where it speeds up teammates in your immediate area as well as yourself. Make him feel and act more like the scout without sacrificing map integrity.
Soldier - Small Buff
Problem: Soldier is strong, but has what feels like a very solved meta of stock launcher, conch, and escape plan.
Solution: Make other weapons more unique and viable. Direct hit has only 4 rockets with small blast radius but increased damage and more noticeable stun effect, as well as full crit on airshot. Make the Equalizer do much more damage at lower health, for instance when a soldier can be 1 shot by a zombie (say below 25% hp) make it so he can 2-3 tap melee a zombie. Make the bison do a lot of knockback but at the price of 1 ammo per clip and a long reload time. Give soldier something that mixes up the meta.
Pyro - Small Nerf
Problem: Right now Pyro can be incredibly strong when hanging out at the back of the surviving party. His slowdown mechanic when lighting enemies on fire and airblast are incredibly useful.
Solution: Pyro needs either less total ammo or for airblast to cost more ammo, perhaps instead of 20 it cost 50 and has a longer cooldown but sends zombies further. Alternatively the burn slowdown/time could be reduced, meaning zombies arent effected for as long or as heavily from a Pyro who has since ran away.
Demoman - Nerf
Problem: I would argue that currently the strongest solo class is Donk Hybrid Knight Demo. He can deal incredible knockback, insane DPS, has the furthest melee reach, and has the charge uber as a safety net for any interaction that goes south. He also is by far the strongest LMS and can go on insane killstreaks on some maps.
Solution: Buff the knockback on normal grenades, reduce the knockback on the loose cannon, but buff it on double donks. Give Demo a limited number of charge ubers per round that scales with the number of players. More players means more charges, up to a max of something like 6 with max players. Buff shield bash damage.
Heavy - Nerf
Problem: Heavys in a group are more terrifying than any zombie or Santa that gets stuck in the wall after killing Mufasa. He has insane knockback and can heal almost as much as an engineer.
Solution: Zombies build up resistance to Heavys stream the longer theyre stuck in it. I was personally thinking of it like this:
- If the Heavy does positive 10 knockback to zombies standard (idk the real number), than after something like 25-40 seconds zombies should beable to have made some sure progress. So every 5 seconds the knockback goes down by at the most 2 and at the least 0.5
Engineer - N/A
Is fine as is right now. Fun and strong but not really OP.
Medic - N/A
He just got nerfed like in the last 24 hours and is already more balanced. Maybe a bit more tweaking could be done but balancing Medic is nigh impossible and what we have right now is just fine
Sniper - Nerf
Problem: Sniper is strong however he mostly takes skill, that is until a zombie gets a bit to close and he takes out his pocket heavy.
Solution: Reduce the knockback from the SMG enough to where its viable but isnt just a cheap trick that sniper can use to keep individual zombies or small groups away from him. Thats all. Just dont have the SMG be so strong, especially when he isnt LMS.
Spy - Buff (suprised me honestly)
Problem: If you would have asked me about class/weapon balancing yesterday, I would have said the biggest problem is spy and his throwing knife. Apparently though, sometime between last night and right now, the throwing knife was entirely removed.
Solution: Spy is now the hardest to play class, and while there is a high reward, on 90% of maps there is no reason to choose him over another DPS or support class. He needs something more substantial than the revolver. The throwing knife, while OP, was still unique, fun, and gave spy a greater role. I think the best thing would be to bring it back with much less ammo so that it needed to recharge, and maybe reduce the fire rate by 25-50%.
Well thats my thoughts on all of the survivor classes and how they could be changed to be more balanced or more fun. Im planning on making one about maps after Ive collected more opinions from other active members on the server. Stay frosty!
FrostyBoiGrim
Scarcely Lethal Noob
This is just a general thing but its something I would appreciate: The community being generally kept more up to date. In the past few days the Spy and Medic where nerfed, while Demo got the Tide Turner back. AFAIK this wasnt mentioned anywhere on the discord, or in any thread. if there is a thread or discord that keeps more up to date on changes in the gamemode I would love to be pointed there or even invited so I could keep up to date on changes and balancing! If this isnt a thing, I would love to see it be posted in the #tf2 chat in the discord and/or posted here in the thread just like the major updates.
The Gibus Man
Scarcely Lethal Noob
To add with Frosty’s balance ideas, I think Scout could have an aura effect that slightly boosts the speed of his teammates. This encourages more team play for Scout. You could incentivize this gradually increasing the Scout's speed the more people he boosts.
For Soldier, maybe buff his other two banners. Battalion’s aura could allow the 125 HP classes and medic to take 1 hit before dying, boosting the survivability of the team. For Buff Banner, maybe have the aura also increase firing speed/ knock back.
Removing that speed bonus from the Medic's Overdose is just horrible, please add something else to compensate it.
And my small thought on these nerfs: It really was a great thing for the classes to be as they were but now it just looks a mess and a bit confusing. Especially since the zombies now have a mutate thing going on. Also it would have been a bit great if this was announced in the servers themselves since not all players are on the forums or the discord themselves.
EDIT: Now that I spent a bit more time playing I noticed most of the classes run at the same speed, that's ok, as it was sad to see lots of heavies and soldiers die very quickly due to their speed. As for medic though his speed should still be slightly up a bit more high from the overdose's effects.
Although if you give a slight more boost just make sure he still doesn't outrun everything too much. However in some maps this is often very useful
And my small thought on these nerfs: It really was a great thing for the classes to be as they were but now it just looks a mess and a bit confusing. Especially since the zombies now have a mutate thing going on. Also it would have been a bit great if this was announced in the servers themselves since not all players are on the forums or the discord themselves.
EDIT: Now that I spent a bit more time playing I noticed most of the classes run at the same speed, that's ok, as it was sad to see lots of heavies and soldiers die very quickly due to their speed. As for medic though his speed should still be slightly up a bit more high from the overdose's effects.
Although if you give a slight more boost just make sure he still doesn't outrun everything too much. However in some maps this is often very useful
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