Cream Tea

Epic Skial Regular
Legendary Mapper
split america in half, the top half can be for those who want to have lots of immigrants etc and be communists

the south can be for real americans who want to progress as a species

edit: do the same with england but instead it's east and west
 

chuckwagon

Legendary Skial King
Contributor
split america in half, the top half can be for those who want to have lots of immigrants etc and be communists

the south can be for real americans who want to progress as a species

edit: do the same with england but instead it's east and west
So immigrants prevent progress as a species? Your white supremacy is showing.
 

Antamania

Australian Skial God
Contributor
Not arguing, but I'm curious as to why?

It's my personal belief that it encourages illegal immigration. I don't think just because someone sneaks over here they should get to jump the line from people who are waiting in our arduous immigration system already. I said earlier in the thread my father immigrated over here, it took them like 8 years. We should absolutely make the system better, how? I don't know. But, the one thing we shouldn't do is encourage people to break our laws by rewarding them with a chance to get citizenship for doing so. I know a path to citizenship isn't supposed to be for all illegals, but I just think it's incredibly unfair to those who are doing everything by legal channels. My view may be biased due to my father's situation, but that's just my beliefs. I don't know how you handle the family situation, if I did, I'd probably have a Nobel Prize for it.
 

Luke

Legendary Skial King
Contributor
It's my personal belief that it encourages illegal immigration. I don't think just because someone sneaks over here they should get to jump the line from people who are waiting in our arduous immigration system already. I said earlier in the thread my father immigrated over here, it took them like 8 years. We should absolutely make the system better, how? I don't know. But, the one thing we shouldn't do is encourage people to break our laws by rewarding them with a chance to get citizenship for doing so. I know a path to citizenship isn't supposed to be for all illegals, but I just think it's incredibly unfair to those who are doing everything by legal channels. My view may be biased due to my father's situation, but that's just my beliefs. I don't know how you handle the family situation, if I did, I'd probably have a Nobel Prize for it.

Oh, I took the quote to mean "I don't believe in giving citizenship to people who weren't born in the country".

I think that's fair enough, what about people who flee from violence - but not through the asylum system?
 

chuckwagon

Legendary Skial King
Contributor
There is no ‘line’.

There are three ways to enter the country legally to live: work visa, family visa, and asylum.
 

Antamania

Australian Skial God
Contributor
Oh, I took the quote to mean "I don't believe in giving citizenship to people who weren't born in the country".

I think that's fair enough, what about people who flee from violence - but not through the asylum system?

The issue is with most debate, a lot of people take illegal immigration to mean regular immigration. Immigrants add to our country in immense ways. That aside, I don't quite know what should be done with those whose country is too dangerous to send them back to. Is it our job to be universal caretakers? If they do things by legal channel and seek asylum, get vetted, there is no reason for them not to be able to stay until their situation resolves (if it ever does). If they don't come legally, we should still probably eject them from the country. People who do things legally should be allowed to stay, those who think they are more important than the others who go through our process shouldn't. As cruel as it may sound, it's not our job to shelter everyone in the world, what's the point of borders otherwise? I'm not against granting asylum, at all, so long as it's done by proper channels...not when they declare it after they've been caught in our country illegally.
 

Luke

Legendary Skial King
Contributor
The issue is with most debate, a lot of people take illegal immigration to mean regular immigration. Immigrants add to our country in immense ways. That aside, I don't quite know what should be done with those whose country is too dangerous to send them back to. Is it our job to be universal caretakers? If they do things by legal channel and seek asylum, get vetted, there is no reason for them not to be able to stay until their situation resolves (if it ever does). If they don't come legally, we should still probably eject them from the country. People who do things legally should be allowed to stay, those who think they are more important than the others who go through our process shouldn't. As cruel as it may sound, it's not our job to shelter everyone in the world, what's the point of borders otherwise? I'm not against granting asylum, at all, so long as it's done by proper channels...not when they declare it after they've been caught in our country illegally.

I don't think anyone truly disagrees with you on that.

The problem is that the Trump administration has implemented this policy of not deporting people.

Unfortunately as chuckwagon has said, it seems like they're trying to deter even legal immigration.
 

Cream Tea

Epic Skial Regular
Legendary Mapper
So immigrants prevent progress as a species? Your white supremacy is showing.

what white supremacy dude it's just called using your eyes these people come in and take money from the government without putting much in although this is from a uk perspective so it's probably quite different and i should have probably specified illegal immigration, but i don't think it should be super easy to get in legally either you should have decent skills etc same rules as getting a green card tbh
 

chuckwagon

Legendary Skial King
Contributor
The issue is with most debate, a lot of people take illegal immigration to mean regular immigration. Immigrants add to our country in immense ways. That aside, I don't quite know what should be done with those whose country is too dangerous to send them back to. Is it our job to be universal caretakers? If they do things by legal channel and seek asylum, get vetted, there is no reason for them not to be able to stay until their situation resolves (if it ever does). If they don't come legally, we should still probably eject them from the country. People who do things legally should be allowed to stay, those who think they are more important than the others who go through our process shouldn't. As cruel as it may sound, it's not our job to shelter everyone in the world, what's the point of borders otherwise? I'm not against granting asylum, at all, so long as it's done by proper channels...not when they declare it after they've been caught in our country illegally.

I am comfortable with like 90% of this. There seems to be an assertion that if someone is against Trump's zero tolerance party, then they are for open borders. It is not an either/or situation. The status quo has been that people have come in illegally, if arrested, they are deported. People have come requesting asylum, if denied they are deported. I wish we could allow for more immigration. Congress has been close to approving immigration reforms a few times, but hard-liners have squelched it.

The uproar has been over the zero-tolerance policy which was not required by law, it was a decision that the Trump administration made. That policy has caused 3,000 children to be removed from their parents. In some cases the parents are deported while the children remain here. The administration ended the policy after the public outcry and courts have ruled that children must be reunited with their families. It currently seems that the administration is unable to do that, and these children face a possibility of never seeing their parents again.

At some points of entry, immigrants have not been allowed to request asylum. The port has been physically closed. In other cases, parents have been blackmailed into dropping asylum claims by being told that is the only way to get their kids back.

The immigration system before was broken, but the Trump administration decide to punish these people for trying to enter the country, sometimes even legally by threatening to, or actually taking their kids away.
 

chuckwagon

Legendary Skial King
Contributor
what white supremacy dude it's just called using your eyes these people come in and take money from the government without putting much in although this is from a uk perspective so it's probably quite different and i should have probably specified illegal immigration, but i don't think it should be super easy to get in legally either you should have decent skills etc same rules as getting a green card tbh

In the US crime rates among immigrants is significantly lower than native citizens, they provide an economic boost to the places that they live, they put in millions of dollars of income taxes of which they get nothing back from because they are not citizens. So...
 

chuckwagon

Legendary Skial King
Contributor
dont they also not pay taxes
They have to pay sales taxes on things that they buy. They have to pay income tax unless the employer is somehow paying them under the table which is very difficult. I am unsure of how property taxes are efffected.
 

Metroidz

Australian Skial God
Contributor
They have to pay sales taxes on things that they buy. They have to pay income tax unless the employer is somehow paying them under the table which is very difficult. I am unsure of how property taxes are efffected.

In Texas (personal reference) a very large amount of illegal immigrants in labor type jobs are paid solely in cash. It is very common. It benefits both the employer (they don't have to pay wage-based taxes) and the employee since they do not pay FIT and SIT taxes.

Edit: Forgot Texans don't pay income SIT on their income. Durr.
 

chuckwagon

Legendary Skial King
Contributor
In Texas (personal reference) a very large amount of illegal immigrants in labor type jobs are paid solely in cash. It is very common. It benefits both the employer (they don't have to pay wage-based taxes) and the employee since they do not pay FIT and SIT taxes.

Edit: Forgot Texans don't pay income SIT on their income. Durr.
Employers that don’t use E-Verify or file I-9’s face stiff penalties.

And aren’t the employers that pay ‘illegal immigrants’ cash part of the problem? Why don’t they get any of the blame?
 

Metroidz

Australian Skial God
Contributor
Employers that don’t use E-Verify or file I-9’s face stiff penalties.

And aren’t the employers that pay ‘illegal immigrants’ cash part of the problem? Why don’t they get any of the blame?

Employers only get in trouble when and if they get caught.

Large business/corporation wants a new distribution center built-> compose a contract for building to be built with a budget that may go to the lowest bidder -> Hire a/several private independent construction company(s) to complete the project for job -> pay them periodically as work progresses/or pay for task upfront -> construction company(s) hire some legit contractor/laborer employees as supervisors -> some illegal immigrants are hired to complete the basics/lowest levels of construction work and pay them in cash weekly.

Saves money for employer and they probably won't bother to check their staff for citizenship since they feel no one will check them. More money into the pockets of construction companies owners/supervisors.

Out of sight, out of mind. No punishment if no one sees the crime.

Edit: should point out that I'm impartial to companies/illegals doing this stuff. It's probably on the lowest end of concerns of immigrants. These are just some people trying to work.
 
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Antamania

Australian Skial God
Contributor
I don't think anyone truly disagrees with you on that.

The problem is that the Trump administration has implemented this policy of not deporting people.

Unfortunately as chuckwagon has said, it seems like they're trying to deter even legal immigration.

Yeah, as I said - I don't think there should be penalization for anything until the second time. The first time they should simply be deported, if they come back a second time, then consider punishment so they don't do it a third. I don't think he's trying to necessarily deter legal immigration (except that idiotic muslim ban) But, it's ok, we can differ there - I'm certainly not going to fight and say he has amazing policies, he doesn't. I agree with him that illegal immigration is an issue (as I have agreed with every president before him who has said that), and I have liked both of his supreme court picks, I probably won't like a third if Ginsburg drops dead. That's about the end of my approval of his presidency.
 

Maddo

Gaben's Own Aimbot
Contributor
Culture is an important feature in human communities, immigration just serves to dilute that culture and fractures communities if left unchecked. Every country needs border control and stringent immigration policies to protect their own identities.
Trump makes sense in my eyes, protect your own.
 

Cream Tea

Epic Skial Regular
Legendary Mapper
Culture is an important feature in human communities, immigration just serves to dilute that culture and fractures communities if left unchecked. Every country needs border control and stringent immigration policies to protect their own identities.
Trump makes sense in my eyes, protect your own.

exactly this is why people love going to japan cuz it's pretty much the same as it was 100 years ago apart from newer technology