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Roboute Guilliman

Australian Skial God
Contributor
okay, let's get back to oni's sensitivity problem

first is that why should there be a rule against harassment? i mean look at all these people cursing each other in gta 5 and even in kid-friendly games like roblox.
you can't ban something that's already mainstream in the community, if done so expect alot of backlash, and in turn Skial will slowly die out.

second is, learn about freedom of speech, if Skial prohibited harassment then it would technically be communist, and you already know no one wants communism.

First off, lets not attack someone by calling them out for having a 'problem'.

Second off, your first amendment also allows you to say "nigger". That gets you a silence on our servers regardless. We can still tell people what they can and cannot say, since we are a private server after all.

Granted, I am not advocating for a "ban harassment" rule since that is unenforceable and nearly impossible to define, but I am more than happy to help anyone out if they're being chronically attacked by the same person. As I mentioned previously, there's a difference between getting called a faggot once, versus being told to kill yourself on a daily basis.
 

Blade D_Hero

Moderator
Contributor
Yeah, I think a lot of you guys are missing the point. No one is saying "he called me an asshole" should be against the rules; we're talking about excessive and unnecessary harassment. You can't deny that in some servers, there are individuals who literally can't play the game without being constantly demeaned by toxic individuals. That shouldn't be tolerated, and people saying "just toughen up even children talk shit" are bragging about being insensitive assholes.

No one should be forced to leave a server because of harassment.
 
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Antamania

Australian Skial God
Contributor
Yeah, I think a lot of you guys are missing the point. No one is saying "he called me an asshole" should be against the rules; we're talking about excessive and unnecessary harassment. You can't deny that in some servers, there are individuals who literally can't play the game without being constantly demeaned by toxic individuals. That shouldn't be tolerated, and people saying "just toughen up even children talk shit" are bragging about being insensitive assholes.

No one should be forced to leave a server because of harassment.

I don't think we're missing the point too much though. There is already precedent that admins have acted against people who are excessively harassing. I can't imagine it needs to be written down on paper that admins will get rid of you if you are being excessively harassing towards one individual and following them around.

If the no one should be forced to leave a server because harassment was targeted at what I said, the person specifically mentioned people killing and taunting them. I truly hope that it isn't being considered that taunting one player excessively is grounds for a ban, because then I'm deserving of one. If someone is getting focused down by several players, and taunted, that is not cause for admin intervention in my eyes.

I think most people here are perfectly for "excessive harassment" being a bannable offense, they just want a solid definition, not an overarching one of "toxicity." There's a lot of "toxicity" that shouldn't be bannable. And me saying to toughen up and use the features to deal with the problem isn't me bragging about anything. I'm saying use the tools the game gave you to deal with people, and don't feed trolls. I don't think that's bad advice.

I'd love it if people weren't assholes to each other, I try to be polite to even the most rude of people. But, the fact is, it's the internet, people are going to be assholes. The simplest way to get rid of an asshole is to not give him the platform he wants to annoy you. Server mute has resolved almost every issue I've had with people being excessively rude to me. If they aren't getting a response, they're going to stop. That's all I meant by the above.
 

Silver Ag

Legendary Skial King
Contributor
just saying, op has toxicity mentioned. So it's not only about excessive harassment. And oni did say we should temp ban or mute toxic players them to calm down, so yes oni is saying we should be punishing people for being an asshole. So unless toxicity had it definition changed from what i think it means, i don't think it should be punishable.
 

Oni

Somewhat Threatening Sniper
Because people aren't anonymous in bars, restaurants, theaters, stores, and playgrounds. Also, what the fuck were you not a kid? Kids are constantly cursing and talking shit on each other on a playground. Also not to mention, we have a large amount of paid people to keep the peace in IRL situations. Online, there are a few volunteers dedicated to helping out. Asking them to police everything, including when someone hurts your feelings is a bit extreme. Clientside mute keeps people muted literally forever, !ignore will block their voice comms until they reconnect or you do. There are tools at your disposal, use them.

Trolling has been online since it's inception, and most people know by now that giving a response (at all) to a troll, is just encouraging the behavior further. If one user in particular is giving you a bad problem, screenshot it, and bring it to an admin. Meowcenary and Odin or whatever the hell he goes by on here have always been willing to help when I need an admin for whatever reason. Be proactive in solving the problem yourself, don't expect others to babysit you.
I'm not talking about kids being assholes, i'm talking about actual adults being assholes to everyone on the server. If anything children are nothing compared to the adults on the servers.
 

Oni

Somewhat Threatening Sniper
I don't think we're missing the point too much though. There is already precedent that admins have acted against people who are excessively harassing. I can't imagine it needs to be written down on paper that admins will get rid of you if you are being excessively harassing towards one individual and following them around.

If the no one should be forced to leave a server because harassment was targeted at what I said, the person specifically mentioned people killing and taunting them. I truly hope that it isn't being considered that taunting one player excessively is grounds for a ban, because then I'm deserving of one. If someone is getting focused down by several players, and taunted, that is not cause for admin intervention in my eyes.

I think most people here are perfectly for "excessive harassment" being a bannable offense, they just want a solid definition, not an overarching one of "toxicity." There's a lot of "toxicity" that shouldn't be bannable. And me saying to toughen up and use the features to deal with the problem isn't me bragging about anything. I'm saying use the tools the game gave you to deal with people, and don't feed trolls. I don't think that's bad advice.

I'd love it if people weren't assholes to each other, I try to be polite to even the most rude of people. But, the fact is, it's the internet, people are going to be assholes. The simplest way to get rid of an asshole is to not give him the platform he wants to annoy you. Server mute has resolved almost every issue I've had with people being excessively rude to me. If they aren't getting a response, they're going to stop. That's all I meant by the above.
Here's more food for thought, what about sexual harassment? If we ban people for racism, why should sexism be any different?
 

Antamania

Australian Skial God
Contributor
Here's more food for thought, what about sexual harassment? If we ban people for racism, why should sexism be any different?

The issue I think most people have against your train of thought is...what qualifies as sexual harassment? What qualifies as harassment in general? If we are going to have that implemented, we need more than a blanket, we need actual, defined things.

Extremes are already actioned.
 

Oni

Somewhat Threatening Sniper
The issue I think most people have against your train of thought is...what qualifies as sexual harassment? What qualifies as harassment in general? If we are going to have that implemented, we need more than a blanket, we need actual, defined things.

Extremes are already actioned.
Tell me what qualifies as racism to you? Then let's see how that applies to sexism aswell.
 

Antamania

Australian Skial God
Contributor
Tell me what qualifies as racism to you? Then let's see how that applies to sexism aswell.

I don't see what you are trying to accomplish with things like this. The argument you originally made was you wanted harassment to be against the rules. Most people responded by saying "That makes sense, but slippery slope....so maybe we need to specify what qualifies as harassment?" to which you respond by bringing up sexism. Both are bad, and both afaik are already actioned when relevant. Saying dumb shit like "Girls don't play video games" isn't nearly as harsh as saying something blatantly racist. If you can show me an example of someone legit behaving like a sexist, and the person reporting it and an admin ignoring it, you may have a point. Just because it isn't technically on paper doesn't mean admins don't act when it's relevant.

I might be able to see your point better if you gave me some examples. What are some less common sense things you were angling to see banned? Where would you personally be drawing the line?
 
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White Moose

Positively Inhumane Poster
get this sjw stuff outta here first harassment now sexism now racism
racism which is already disciplined on stop trying to get something to pass from here
i learned from this thread is that youre really trying to find a way for more people to be silenced
you want something tantamount to the uk police investigating "mean tweets" and arresting them
no.
 

Cream Tea

Epic Skial Regular
Legendary Mapper
get this sjw stuff outta here first harassment now sexism now racism
racism which is already disciplined on stop trying to get something to pass from here
i learned from this thread is that youre really trying to find a way for more people to be silenced
you want something tantamount to the uk police investigating "mean tweets" and arresting them
no.

I live in the uk, I know the feels man.
 

Oni

Somewhat Threatening Sniper
I don't see what you are trying to accomplish with things like this. The argument you originally made was you wanted harassment to be against the rules. Most people responded by saying "That makes sense, but slippery slope....so maybe we need to specify what qualifies as harassment?" to which you respond by bringing up sexism. Both are bad, and both afaik are already actioned when relevant. Saying dumb shit like "Girls don't play video games" isn't nearly as harsh as saying something blatantly racist. If you can show me an example of someone legit behaving like a sexist, and the person reporting it and an admin ignoring it, you may have a point. Just because it isn't technically on paper doesn't mean admins don't act when it's relevant.

I might be able to see your point better if you gave me some examples. What are some less common sense things you were angling to see banned? Where would you personally be drawing the line?
Racism is in the rules, yet sexism isn't, why did you feel the need to tell people not to be racist but omitted sexism?

Where i'm going with this, is as i've seen before. I'm asking you how you drew the line between feeling that racism had to be in the rules and something like sexism didn't?
What i said from the start is that harassment probably should be against the rules because it ruins people's time on the server.
Then people went with the simple "mute-and-forget" option.
Afterwards we tried to define harassment. Then has i said, i compared racism to sexism, because one is in the rules and one isn't.
If you can justify not having one in the rules, then why have the other at all? If you expect that people will just behave and not be sexist without that in the rules, then why wouldn't that argument fit in with racism?

If someone goes after a girl and calls her "attentionwhore" then proceeds to make fun of her in demeaning ways, shouldn't that qualify as being against the rules?
Here's another thing to think about, if it isn't in the rules, then how would people know that it was against them? How would people know that they could report someone or call a mod on someone, if they couldn't refer to the rules?

What we've come down to now is trying to make concrete rules that can be enforced.

Here's another food for thought, if racism isn't vague, then why IS sexism?
Both are form of harrasment and hate.

I'm interested in hearing more from you, i find this discussion very fun.
 

Luke

Legendary Skial King
Contributor
Racism is in the rules, yet sexism isn't, why did you feel the need to tell people not to be racist but omitted sexism?

Where i'm going with this, is as i've seen before. I'm asking you how you drew the line between feeling that racism had to be in the rules and something like sexism didn't?
What i said from the start is that harassment probably should be against the rules because it ruins people's time on the server.
Then people went with the simple "mute-and-forget" option.
Afterwards we tried to define harassment. Then has i said, i compared racism to sexism, because one is in the rules and one isn't.
If you can justify not having one in the rules, then why have the other at all? If you expect that people will just behave and not be sexist without that in the rules, then why wouldn't that argument fit in with racism?

If someone goes after a girl and calls her "attentionwhore" then proceeds to make fun of her in demeaning ways, shouldn't that qualify as being against the rules?
Here's another thing to think about, if it isn't in the rules, then how would people know that it was against them? How would people know that they could report someone or call a mod on someone, if they couldn't refer to the rules?

What we've come down to now is trying to make concrete rules that can be enforced.

Here's another food for thought, if racism isn't vague, then why IS sexism?
Both are form of harrasment and hate.

I'm interested in hearing more from you, i find this discussion very fun.

Sexism is covered by the rules under "Other Discrimination: Any persistent discrimination based on gender or religion is not allowed. What qualifies as persistent will be determined by an admin". We're just more specific about racism.
 

Antamania

Australian Skial God
Contributor
Racism is in the rules, yet sexism isn't, why did you feel the need to tell people not to be racist but omitted sexism?

Where i'm going with this, is as i've seen before. I'm asking you how you drew the line between feeling that racism had to be in the rules and something like sexism didn't?
What i said from the start is that harassment probably should be against the rules because it ruins people's time on the server.
Then people went with the simple "mute-and-forget" option.
Afterwards we tried to define harassment. Then has i said, i compared racism to sexism, because one is in the rules and one isn't.
If you can justify not having one in the rules, then why have the other at all? If you expect that people will just behave and not be sexist without that in the rules, then why wouldn't that argument fit in with racism?

If someone goes after a girl and calls her "attentionwhore" then proceeds to make fun of her in demeaning ways, shouldn't that qualify as being against the rules?
Here's another thing to think about, if it isn't in the rules, then how would people know that it was against them? How would people know that they could report someone or call a mod on someone, if they couldn't refer to the rules?

What we've come down to now is trying to make concrete rules that can be enforced.

Here's another food for thought, if racism isn't vague, then why IS sexism?
Both are form of harrasment and hate.

I'm interested in hearing more from you, i find this discussion very fun.

As Luke says below, there already is a discrimination rule in there.

I've called more males attention whores than females. I don't think it's a gendered insult. If he goes in on her in specific strictly for being a female, I understand your concerns, but simply telling someone to stop attention whoring certainly isn't a sexist thing to say. Why racism, in particular, is in there and nothing else? I couldn't tell you, I didn't write them. But, there already is a precedent for admins to action when someone is being any of the "ists" out there.
 

Tyknighter

Positively Inhumane Poster
Saying "nigger" won't get you banned, so yeah "almost" any kind but you're making exceptions based on what exactly?
Saying that word will get you banned as a matter of fact having a racist name will get you banned to.
 

Defibyoulater

Australian Skial God
Contributor
Discrimination is against the rules, except for the few widely known and used exceptions.
Harassment is against the rules; that is when things become excessive and/or federally illegal.
Skial's compromise on rules are fully fitted to keep our player base yet protect our player base as best they can.

The only reason why this thread has continued is nit-picking that doesn't hold validity at all.
 

Luke

Legendary Skial King
Contributor
Harassment is against the rules; that is when things become excessive and/or federally illegal.

Not true.

"Posting others personal and private information without consent." is the only rule that could be considered protection from harassment.