Fallen Leaves
Rage-Inducing Forum Troll
It pisses me off more than anything to think that this guy woke up and decided to go shoot a bunch of innocent kids/teachers
Society's really fucked up these days..
Society's really fucked up these days..
School shooting in Connecticut
- Thread starter SPYderman
- Start date
I know it's impossible (and stupid) to generalize, but from what I've seen, a LOT of people here in the States have children but have no idea on how to raise them. They do not know the disciplinary procedures and just basic guidelines on how to raise their children, and that's why you end up with kids in middle school thinking they are kings of the world, because their parents make them feel like they are. I've known a LOT of amazing people raised here and even in "redneck" states, but I sadly met even more horribly raised children who simply need a good kick in the butt to get them back down to Earth. It's not entirely the children's fault, the parents should know better than to give in to anything the kids ask, but overall yeah, if people don't know how to raise their children, shit is bound to happen. Not saying that this mother raised her child wrong, but since he apparently had schizophrenia, she should have taken extra care of him.
I share your opinion on this. A big question in my head that I've been kicking around, as a responsible gun owner, is HOW was this man able to access his mother's guns? My guns are locked in a safe at all times unless I'm going to shoot them. I have one weapon that's out for home defense and even then I keep the ammo locked in a drawer. No one is able to access my weapons except me.
It sounds like there were a lot of fuck ups all around for something like this to happen.
I honestly don't think the gun violence problem here will ever end. There are 280 million guns estimated to be in the US, almost one for every citizen. Guns are too ingrained into our culture to ever do something considered so insane as to try to confiscate them all. And with all these guns, when crazies go looking to shoot up a place, they're gonna get em.
Japan has very little gun ownership and usage. There were only 11 gun-caused murders there in 2008, and that was up from 2 in 2006. In Japan you have get mental tests, have a reason for owning a gun, and have to keep it unloaded and separated, and more.
http://m.washingtonpost.com/blogs/w...-the-country-that-has-almost-zero-gun-deaths/
Japan has very little gun ownership and usage. There were only 11 gun-caused murders there in 2008, and that was up from 2 in 2006. In Japan you have get mental tests, have a reason for owning a gun, and have to keep it unloaded and separated, and more.
http://m.washingtonpost.com/blogs/w...-the-country-that-has-almost-zero-gun-deaths/
You cannot deny that Japan-level gun availability would cut down greatly on gun violence. Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating to get rid of every single gun in the US. While in a perfect world there would only be responsible gun usage, there are big downsides to this level of gun availability in the real world.
You could also argue the opposite. If pretty much everyone had a gun (wild west status) then anyone wanting to go on a shootout would be more hesitant because they know as soon as they started they would get shot too.
So your answer is to take guns away from everyone? I can only imagine what kind of black market would spawn out of that. With Mexico so close to us, I guarantee you would have every single nefarious person out there strapped wherever they went, comfortable in the fact that the average citizen couldn't do shit about it.
Mittens brings up a good point about bombs. If I were to commit a violent crime and couldn't get any access to guns, that would be my next go-to choice. You won't be able to stop people from being violent by taking away their current choice of method, they will just find a new one.
I also don't think it's fair to compare the US to Japan when it comes to crime since both cultures are so different. For example confession rate in Japan is 95% because of the sense of shame in Japan culture is very strong, same with their pride. On the flip side the number one choice of suicide for males in the US is a gun but even though they don't have guns in Japan the male suicide rate isn't any lower. Anyway this could go on but bottom line is you can attribute crime rates in Japan to laws alone, their society is much different than ours.
You can rate me dumb all you want, and say that you're not advocating doing away with guns, but using an example like Japan IS saying you advocate that. Guns are practically illegal there.
Our culture is different, which is why we allow such gun availability and others don't, and I think that's why the gun violence problem here will never end.
All of my agrees are with Morgan Freeman.
My apologies if anyone has posted this yet, my girlfriend just showed it to me:
Morgan Freeman:
"You want to know why. This may sound cynical, but here's why.
It's because of the way the media reports it. Flip on the news and watch how we treat the Batman theater shooter and the Oregon mall shooter like celebrities. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris are household names, but do you know the name of a single victim of Columbine? Disturbed people who would otherwise just off themselves in their basements see the news and want to top it by doing something worse, and going out in a memorable way. Why a grade school? Why children? Because he'll be remembered as a horrible monster, instead of a sad nobody.
CNN's article says that if the body count "holds up", this will rank as the second deadliest shooting behind Virginia Tech, as if statistics somehow make one shooting worse than another. Then they post a video interview of third-graders for all the details of what they saw and heard while the shootings were happening. Fox News has plastered the killer's face on all their reports for hours. Any articles or news stories yet that focus on the victims and ignore the killer's identity? None that I've seen yet. Because they don't sell. So congratulations, sensationalist media, you've just lit the fire for someone to top this and knock off a day care center or a maternity ward next.
You can help by forgetting you ever read this man's name, and remembering the name of at least one victim. You can help by donating to mental health research instead of pointing to gun control as the problem. You can help by turning off the news."
My apologies if anyone has posted this yet, my girlfriend just showed it to me:
Morgan Freeman:
"You want to know why. This may sound cynical, but here's why.
It's because of the way the media reports it. Flip on the news and watch how we treat the Batman theater shooter and the Oregon mall shooter like celebrities. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris are household names, but do you know the name of a single victim of Columbine? Disturbed people who would otherwise just off themselves in their basements see the news and want to top it by doing something worse, and going out in a memorable way. Why a grade school? Why children? Because he'll be remembered as a horrible monster, instead of a sad nobody.
CNN's article says that if the body count "holds up", this will rank as the second deadliest shooting behind Virginia Tech, as if statistics somehow make one shooting worse than another. Then they post a video interview of third-graders for all the details of what they saw and heard while the shootings were happening. Fox News has plastered the killer's face on all their reports for hours. Any articles or news stories yet that focus on the victims and ignore the killer's identity? None that I've seen yet. Because they don't sell. So congratulations, sensationalist media, you've just lit the fire for someone to top this and knock off a day care center or a maternity ward next.
You can help by forgetting you ever read this man's name, and remembering the name of at least one victim. You can help by donating to mental health research instead of pointing to gun control as the problem. You can help by turning off the news."
I agree with you that the amount of guns we have has the potential to be problematic, but I think that's just one side of the equation.
Check out Switzerland. Every household is REQUIRED to have one gun. They don't have any gun violence there because everyone (and I do mean everyone) is trained in responsible gun handling.
It's kind of like if you give a kid a fork. If you don't tell him, "Now Timmy, don't stick this thing in the electrical socket", well, lil' Timmy is probably going to go and do that.
What I'm saying is that our culture is gun-hyped. When it's your right to shoot guns, everyone's going to exercise that right, including a lot of people who aren't going to use it for legal purposes, and it doesn't help that we have such easy ways to get guns. Most people can get them. There are so many and they could easily buy them. I think me and you are sort of on the same page here, but I don't think that high-capacity clips are a right, or that allowing more guns would help. Allowing the ridiculous amount of guns we have today is why there are so many people with guns who really shouldn't have them.
And with Switzerland, they only have so many guns because everybody is actually trained to use them from mandatory military service, not like us where some gangster can just go down to the shop, or just buy one off of someone else.
I agree that we are gun-hyped. I disagree that we have "easy ways" of getting guns (if you are purchasing in full-legal mode). To buy a gun legally, I have to jump through the ringer with the state of California. I have a secret clearance issued by the U.S. government and carried no less than three weapons on me at all times for five years (fired more than a few dozen times in the line of duty), and even I go through the same background checks and everything as everyone else.
I don't know if the amount of guns is necessarily the problem (although, once again, I agree that we have a lot of guns and this COULD be problematic). I've heard various statistics that claim there is about one gun for every U.S. citizen. That's a lot of guns, and a lot of gun owners. Relative to how many of us own guns, shootings happen pretty infrequently, to be honest. More people die from car related incidents every year than guns. I'm not saying mass shootings (or any shooting not in self defense) is not reprehensible, but I don't think the fact that we have a lot of guns is necessarily the issue in this particular case. This guy was obviously nuts, and his mother was obviously irresponsible with the weapons she owned. It's not my fault (as a law abiding, responsible gun owner) that she was an idiot and allowed her crazy ass son to know how to access her weapons.
I love gun control, don't get me wrong. I would love for crazy people to not be able to get their hands on one and make the rest of us look bad. My own brother was convicted of a gun violence related felony, he is not allowed to own a gun now for the rest of his life. I agree with this ruling. He has shown that he can't handle guns responsibly. If my brother is ever around, I make sure my guns are not accessible by any means. I love him, and I don't want him to do anything stupid again.
Ultimately, here's how I look at it: if I'm looking to shoot up a place, I'm not going to go where ever I might be stopped before I achieve my goal. I'm going to go to a place that has a sign that says "No weapons allowed" (as most schools in the U.S. have now) because I know I will not be hindered. The officer who shot up the Army base did it in a "gun free zone". (That brings up another gripe I have with gun control; this guy was being investigated by the Army for possibly having sympathy toward the enemy, and yet he still had a service rifle and a clearance? What the fuck?)
This is indeed a problem. I kind of wish we followed their model of mandatory military service. It teaches one to be responsible pretty quickly. But alas, it wouldn't be in the interest of our goal of allowing the pursuit of happiness.
EvanFlew
Epic Skial Regular
I have to say, I've always loved guns, and I was pretty happy that after moving here to Washington and getting the green card, you can pretty much buy ANY rifle/shotgun at any store, as long as you just show them you're 21+.
Then I noticed that it's ridiculous, even though there are regulations, pretty much anyone can own a rifle. The only thing you have to go through paperwork is if you want to carry a hidden pistol with you, the concealed weapons license, you need a background check and whatnot. Even though crime isn't high in this state, it's still pretty ridiculous how easy it is to get a lethal firearm.
Then I noticed that it's ridiculous, even though there are regulations, pretty much anyone can own a rifle. The only thing you have to go through paperwork is if you want to carry a hidden pistol with you, the concealed weapons license, you need a background check and whatnot. Even though crime isn't high in this state, it's still pretty ridiculous how easy it is to get a lethal firearm.