Approved Gore Sprays = Bannable offense(?)

[LiterallyCody]

Obviously sprays are sprays and I could turn them off, but I like seeing other sprays too. But really, I don't like seeing the gore sprays, they're just shocking. It's just really horrible at how cruel players or people can be.

(In this photo I literally had to move my sentry and dispenser away from the spray to a different location just because of it)

 

[Meowcenary]

IF gore was banned there would constantly be arguments over what is classified as gore, similarly to the issues that arise with lolicon.

Since gore is not illegal, no reason to ban it to even open up that can of worms. If your precious little eyes can't take it then turn sprays off.

This issue has been brought up before and declined a couple of times.

Are we really going to allow gore because we're too lazy to have to make a decision on a gray area gore spray every once in awhile?

If the admins spend hours discussing whether or not someone is hacking to come to a decision I imagine we can handle having to ask another admin what they think about a possible spray that is bordering onto gore, something that will probably happen rarely considering how uncommon gore sprays seem to be.

I don't think the hassle of deciding what is and isn't classified as gore on a case by case basis is as much of a hassle as its being made out to be is what I'm getting at.

 

[Uncle F3AR]

Is it realistic? Yes. Is the person in the photo missing a body part? Yes. Then it's probably gore.

 

[Blade D_Hero]

Racism isn't illegal either here in the U.S. so I don't see the point in using that argument as a reason to allow gore. If it's low class and is seen as obscene by many why should we have it on our servers?

It's a privately held company, and I would assume if this many people don't want it we should make a rule against gore. Makes sense to me.

 

[chuckwagon]

What if the whole severs precious little eyes can't take it, should everyone turn sprays off? let's remove sprays from showing in game altogether! then there can be no argument about where on the spectrum of acceptable a spray falls

Maybe we can disable the Skial plugin that forces players to stare at gore sprays.

 

[chuckwagon]

Are we really going to allow gore because we're too lazy to have to make a decision on a gray area gore spray every once in awhile?

If the admins spend hours discussing whether or not someone is hacking to come to a decision I imagine we can handle having to ask another admin what they think about a possible spray that is bordering onto gore, something that will probably happen rarely considering how uncommon gore sprays seem to be.

I don't think the hassle of deciding what is and isn't classified as gore on a case by case basis is as much of a hassle as its being made out to be is what I'm getting at.

Gore sprays have been allowed since the beginnings of Skial, without issue, so it is not a matter of being to lazy, it is a matter of we had better things to do.

I kind of wish we had admins that DIDN"T have to spend hours discussing whether someone is hacking or not.

TBH I can't tell the difference between real gore and horror movie gore. I guess if the other admins can, then I will politely rescind my objection to this debate.

 

[DaivdBaekr]

Maybe we can disable the Skial plugin that forces players to stare at gore sprays.

How did you find out about that?

 

[Toxik]

Gore sprays have been allowed since the beginnings of Skial, without issue, so it is not a matter of being to lazy, it is a matter of we had better things to do.

I kind of wish we had admins that DIDN"T have to spend hours discussing whether someone is hacking or not.

TBH I can't tell the difference between real gore and horror movie gore. I guess if the other admins can, then I will politely rescind my objection to this debate.

Oh boy, college is finally paying off! I learned in management class that progress is constant, and needed for industries to not only survive but strive in their business.
Saying "it's what we've always done, why change it now" is exactly what is going to make us lose both players and respect as the hosts of many of the top servers out there.
I don't think it matters whether gore is real or not. If it seems realistic enough, people will not like it and leave the server to go play on one that doesn't allow that kind of behavior.
Yes, taking some extra time to handle reports about it sucks for our admins, but it's what they signed up for, to keep the community happy overall.

Again, yes, this suggestion may have been denied in the past, but I think we should get input from regs and see their opinion. It's not only up to the admins (except Bottiger) to decide by themselves what should or shouldn't be allowed, and whether it offends people or not. It's our players who make up our community who should have a voice in making this kind of decision, since it's them whom it affects.

 

[Tayto]

Gore sprays have been allowed since the beginnings of Skial, without issue,

This issue has been brought up before and declined a couple of times.

If there was never an issue about it then it wouldn't have been brought up before a couple of times.

 

[chuckwagon]

Oh boy, college is finally paying off! I learned in management class that progress is constant, and needed for industries to not only survive but strive in their business.
Saying "it's what we've always done, why change it now" is exactly what is going to make us lose both players and respect as the hosts of many of the top servers out there.
I don't think it matters whether gore is real or not. If it seems realistic enough, people will not like it and leave the server to go play on one that doesn't allow that kind of behavior.
Yes, taking some extra time to handle reports about it sucks for our admins, but it's what they signed up for, to keep the community happy overall.

Again, yes, this suggestion may have been denied in the past, but I think we should get input from regs and see their opinion. It's not only up to the admins (except Bottiger) to decide by themselves what should or shouldn't be allowed, and whether it offends people or not. It's our players who make up our community who should have a voice in making this kind of decision, since it's them whom it affects.

Thank you! This is one of the most intelligent arguments for banning gore in this thread.

You seem to making an "Appeal to novelty" argument fallacy, to my "Appeal to tradition" argument fallacy.

I want to make it clear. I don't spray gore. I don't even have sprays enabled. But as a matter of principle, I always come down on the side of not restricting speech.

 

[Toxik]

I agree that restricting speech is a stupid thing to do especially on the internet, but on this specific issue, as I said, we only cater to our players.

If something like a gore spray is going to offend a majority of them (and let's face it, only a fraction of them know how to block sprays), we should take action on that and make a clear rule against it.

I know you don't spray gore, and I'm pretty sure no one on this forum would, but it's the idiots who use that as a spray who try and either make themselves interesting or just offend people that make it harder on the rest of us to uphold basic codes on being decent human beings

 

[T-Wayne]

Offtopic:

Better start kicking all the underage players then.

PSSST everyone!!! Apply for admin now! Soon we have some vacancies! ^__^

Ontopic:
I will only reply subjectively. It bothers me to look at it, and I do not want others to be looking at it. Especially the younger players. I don't think turning off sprays is the solution because I'd miss out on all the creative or fun sprays. Or the standard "high five for sandwich"-ones. I would not mind for gore sprays to be banned in all honesty. Although I wonder wether that will rise the question of "what is gore and what ain't gore" (an example would be anime/cartoon decapitation or removal of body parts). I'm side-looking at the thread lydia made about the gender rule which has alot of people say different things.
But it should definatly definitely be banned in my opinion.

 

[Maddo]

I always come down on the side of not restricting speech.

How is spraying a wall with a picture of a dismembered body "speech"?

Maybe we can disable the Skial plugin that forces players to stare at gore sprays.

That's the human nature plug in, based on the curiosity engine, and the damn writers never did get round to adding the 'unsee' option.

You seem to making an "Appeal to novelty" argument fallacy, to my "Appeal to tradition" argument fallacy.

Better get back to hanging those blacks for running away from the plantation, and making gays feel like they are criminals. Damned progress.

 

[LiterallyCody]

How is spraying a wall with a picture of a dismembered body "speech"?

That's the human nature plug in, based on the curiosity engine, and the damn writers never did get round to adding the 'unsee' option.

Better get back to hanging those blacks for running away from the plantation, and making gays feel like they are criminals. Damned progress.

I remember those times, I wasn't even born. But I remember it.

 

[Luke]

How is spraying a wall with a picture of a dismembered body "speech"?

I guess the idea is not "speech" but "expression", sprays are one way which players can express themselves- if you ban one thing, whats to say that you won't ban the next thing, then the next, slowly constricting peoples ability to express themselves without worry that they offend someone... which, is also their right to do so.

Not my opinion, I agree more with you- just explaining what I see as a devil's advocate.

 

[Maddo]

I guess the idea is not "speech" but "expression", sprays are one way which players can express themselves- if you ban one thing, whats to say that you won't ban the next thing, then the next, slowly constricting peoples ability to express themselves without worry that they offend someone... which, is also their right to do so.

Not my opinion, I agree more with you- just explaining what I see as a devil's advocate.

Yep, there is a point in what you make, but there seems to be a need for parameters, you basically need to draw the line somewhere. Where the line is drawn is what's in debate.
Plus the argument you make, has been used throughout history to allow evil practices to continue. Freedom can only exist with the premise that people can be free not to experience something if they choose not to, In this case telling people to turn off sprays is encroaching on people's freedom to make a choice, and it seems the overwhelming majority here do not want to casually stumble across gore that lets face it is only put up to cause discomfort to people.

 

[chuckwagon]

How is spraying a wall with a picture of a dismembered body "speech"?
.

As Luke alludes to, we Yanks classify almost all expression as speech, and we hold the idea of free speech in high regard. Some people misunderstand the idea- it only stops the government from infringing on someone's right to say whatever they want. There are still consequences of your speech, you are free to spout racial slurs and the government cannot stop you. However other people are free to then call you a racist douche-nozzle. Also private businesses and groups (like Skial) can create whatever rules they wish restricting speech. However most place as least restrictions as necessary to continue the spirit of free speech.

Better get back to hanging those blacks for running away from the plantation, and making gays feel like they are criminals. Damned progress.

Mighty fine straw man argument you've got there.

 

[Luke]

Yep, there is a point in what you make, but there seems to be a need for parameters, you basically need to draw the line somewhere. Where the line is drawn is what's in debate.
Plus the argument you make, has been used throughout history to allow evil practices to continue. Freedom can only exist with the premise that people can be free not to experience something if they choose not to, In this case telling people to turn off sprays is encroaching on people's freedom to make a choice, and it seems the overwhelming majority here do not want to casually stumble across gore that lets face it is only put up to cause discomfort to people.

I absolutely agree, people can turn off sprays clientside for their own personal reasons, but if the majority of Skial agree that gore sprays like this should be banned- then this is obviously the best option. I'm curious if you believe all gore sprays should be banned, or just extreme ones (like this one)?

 

[Luke]

As Luke alludes to, we Yanks classify almost all expression as speech, and we hold the idea of free speech in high regard. Some people misunderstand the idea- it only stops the government from infringing on someone's right to say whatever they want. There are still consequences of your speech, you are free to spout racial slurs and the government cannot stop you. However other people are free to then call you a racist douche-nozzle. Also private businesses and groups (like Skial) can create whatever rules they wish restricting speech. However most place as least restrictions as necessary to continue the spirit of free speech.


Mighty fine straw man argument you've got there.

I'm not a yank (British) and I agree with this idea of having the ability to express yourself however you wish, but I also do see that if it begins affecting others in a way which isn't productive* then it should be stopped... in this instance I'm honestly not sure, the example given for this thread is extreme and I'm against that, but as my first post in this thread mentioned- I also don't like porn sprays (though people didn't like me linking the two). At the end of the day, it is a hard thing to work out whether something should be banned or not.

*for instance, people may not like demonstrations- but these things are mostly productive for society to change peoples opinions.

 

[Maddo]

Mighty fine straw man argument you've got there.

Not really, speaking in metaphor to show how ridiculous your tradition remark was/is.

 

[Maddo]

I absolutely agree, people can turn off sprays clientside for their own personal reasons, but if the majority of Skial agree that gore sprays like this should be banned- then this is obviously the best option. I'm curious if you believe all gore sprays should be banned, or just extreme ones (like this one)?

I believe if a spray gets complained about it should be assessed by an admin, who are (through the application process) representative of the majority opinion of the users of the servers. I don't believe it should be a blanket ban as it is to difficult to account for every eventuality before the fact. Sm_removespray is an option, so is warning people. It doesn't have to be black or white, that's why people make the decisions and not a predetermined set of rules in a plug-in.
Obviously the feeling is quite strong for disallowing gore, the next debate as chuck wagon rightly points out is "what constitutes gore?" I can tell you the answer already: it's what the admins decide is gore.