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No persistent targeted harassment of players; Overbearing toxic behavior (i.e, following a player across servers, team-grieving one person, berating the entire server via chat over a length of time, making things personal with trash-talking above and beyond what is typical in gameplay)
 
why not add 'toxicity' to the list of votemute reasons and call it a day

+1 to this. Let servers self-regulate, and then perhaps when you are examining if someone is deserving of an actual admin action, can see if there is repeat passed votemutes for this type of behavior.
 
i agree with KinCryos here but would like to add that it should also be a bannable offence in case it gets out of hand like in extreme cases where they just won't stop until they make you stop playing on skial. of course it's up to bottiger for that and i know this part of the idea may be laughed at but i think this plus giving it the name bullying would work as well. but as i said only bottiger can decide what to call it. anyways i hope a toxicity rule does get added

also Antamania reporting them can help too but i respect your opinion on this point of the matter as well
 
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I can already see this getting abused.

That said, itd need at least half the server to agree with it before it gets out in place.

This might work

I mean, repeatedly happening to you, you probably have it coming. I think you'll find people who behave have like 1-2 votemutes passed on them over the span of years. The ones who are constantly a pain in the ass have like 5+ over the span of a few months.

I don't think you go chiefly by it, but it'd certainly help to establish if the person has a pattern of being a nuisance.
 
Thought I’d give a wee say in this whole discussion. Quick note, I skimmed through all the responses quite quickly, so if I’m saying things that have already been said, disregard them.

I usually play on 2fort US 1 & 2. From my experience with toxic players, I believe two people can clearly show two types of “toxic” players.

The first is a player named “trash”, who I usually see on 2fort US 1. This player is notorious for talking like a cunt to people, saying fuck you every time you kill him, baiting/taunting you on text chat when he kills you, all of those kinda minor “toxic” things. If you frequent that server and you’ve played/talked with trash, you’ll know this is his “bit” and that he’s just screwing with you, trying to get a rise out of you and being a shit disturber.

Some may argue the way he conducts himself is toxic and unacceptable, yet I disagree, because he’s made it quite blatant all of it is meaningless banter. Players like trash are ok because they use so called “toxicity” to joke around with their friends and other players.

The second player, by the name of “Krash!!”, couldn’t be more different. To start, this player comes off as friendly and don’t always display their toxicity to everyone. Anyone who talks to Krash (that he doesn’t hate) will find him pleasant, those who’ve known him for a while will usually engage in lengthy conversations, once again, being pleasant. While this seems all fine and dandy, things quickly change when someone “competent” joins the opposite team and proceeds to kill Krash a couple of times throughout their session.

The response from Krash is almost, if not always the same. He’ll get suspicious, start to call the player out, focusing them, and continue doing both of these until either he leaves, or the player leaves. One of my friends gets constantly harassed by Krash every time she plays on the server, being called a slew of names and insults, along with cheater obviously. Outside of skial, his actions towards these people have varied. He’s been seen trying to call people out for cheating on their profiles and steam statuses, constantly messaging admins to ban whoever he thinks is cheating, talking shit about them after they leave or when they aren’t on, etc.

I could go on for days, and possibly write a 6 page essay with a thesis statement about Krash and how players like him should have no place in the community. The point I’m trying to get across is that I strongly believe if a player is being constantly toxic, towards multiple people, and don’t seem too keen on stopping anytime soon, why should they be allowed to spew their garbage and ruin other peoples fun?

It’s simple, people like trash, who have no meaning behind their toxicity, should be left alone. People like Krash, should be warned, then muted for toxicity, for they add literally zero value to the community.

Anyways, there’s my “wee” say in this. Being a former admin and server manager preciously for another TF2 community, I thanked the heavens everyday when I was permitted to mute someone for “excessive toxicity”, and to my knowledge, so did others playing on the server.
Pretty funny the 4 i thought were cheating, were on the server for years, had admins as friends, and confidents, who protected them. I am a passionate person and have made stupid comments, but whats funny, you're calling out my name like you know me, i've played maybe 3 hours in the past 3 weeks lol but its nice that the haters still hate lol
 
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Pretty funny the 4 i thought were cheating, were on the server for years, had admins as friends, and confidents, who protected them. I am a passionate person and have made stupid comments, but whats funny, you're calling out my name like you know me, i've played maybe 3 hours in the past 3 weeks lol but its nice that the haters still hate lol

lmao
 
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I don't think the point of a toxicity rule is to ban shit-talking or taunting after kills. There are maybe 4 cases I can think of that would have benefited from a toxicity rule so something could be done to keep people from leaving the servers.

I also think the people who gain the reputation on a server for being a vile, toxic piece of shit no one really wants to play with is who this rule would target. And TBH, they're easy to spot.

Specifically from 2fort+:
-I saw a trash vs Krash argument which hits the nail on the head.
-Gawlfer? Before he was perma-muted all he would do is call people cunts and belittle them. If he gets pissed enough, he'll go engi then start moving his dispenser around so the person who pissed him off wouldn't be able to heal. He'll block their sentries (he starts grieving the team bad).
-Nightblade vs Codeseven
-Sugarwater
-People who will only tell people to kill themselves (etc) and contribute nothing else to the chat.
-Hopping servers to follow people to continually harass them.

The problem is when admins are unable to do anything because the person isn't technically doing anything against the rules, but they are making it uncomfortable to play and enjoy the game.

Again, no one gives a shit about trash-talking, but there is a line that some people overstep and it ceases being "in good fun."

Edit: And appeals still exist. /hardeyeroll
whats funny anne is you were an admin once, and people would come to you and since most were friends of yours you didnt want to do anything about it, is cheating considered being Toxic? I guess not because the multiple times i know people went to you for help and you did nothing, nada, you didnt want to "get involved" you thought it would affect your status as a "good admin" because you were doing your job against some people who had friends in the server.
 
whats funny anne is you were an admin once, and people would come to you and since most were friends of yours you didnt want to do anything about it, is cheating considered being Toxic? I guess not because the multiple times i know people went to you for help and you did nothing, nada, you didnt want to "get involved" you thought it would affect your status as a "good admin" because you were doing your job against some people who had friends in the server.
my guy, go to dms. this is clearly not the time or place for this, and it hurts me that you're derailing probably one of the most reasonable discussion posts I've seen in a long time.
It is because we ignored these people spreading lies about us on reddit for so long that others have a negative opinion about us even if they've never played on our servers. There are people who are claiming that our servers are toxic, that we are pay2win, or that we ban people for killing friendlies.... all while never having connected a single time.
I have no problem seeing what you mean, and I honestly wish I felt the same, but taking away player agency, even in pursuit of a good cause, is something I've always been against, not to mention it seems a bit counter-intuitive to change rules for the sake of people who do not and will not play on skial.
 
I don't think the point of a toxicity rule is to ban shit-talking or taunting after kills. There are maybe 4 cases I can think of that would have benefited from a toxicity rule so something could be done to keep people from leaving the servers.

I also think the people who gain the reputation on a server for being a vile, toxic piece of shit no one really wants to play with is who this rule would target. And TBH, they're easy to spot.

Specifically from 2fort+:
-I saw a trash vs Krash argument which hits the nail on the head.
-Gawlfer? Before he was perma-muted all he would do is call people cunts and belittle them. If he gets pissed enough, he'll go engi then start moving his dispenser around so the person who pissed him off wouldn't be able to heal. He'll block their sentries (he starts grieving the team bad).
-Nightblade vs Codeseven
-Sugarwater
-People who will only tell people to kill themselves (etc) and contribute nothing else to the chat.
-Hopping servers to follow people to continually harass them.

The problem is when admins are unable to do anything because the person isn't technically doing anything against the rules, but they are making it uncomfortable to play and enjoy the game.

Again, no one gives a shit about trash-talking, but there is a line that some people overstep and it ceases being "in good fun."

Edit: And appeals still exist. /hardeyeroll
I miss gawlfer and him saying “cooked” every time he managed to kill someone as pyro. It didn’t happen often but it was always funny.
 
Personally, I don't think a rule against toxicity would do Skial any justice. I rarely see any excessive toxicity in our servers, and 90% of the time if I do, it's accompanied by racism and discrimination so the player gains a silence anyway. I do often see trash talk but, come on, that's how basically every game is. There's no reason to take that away from players just because a handful of people cry about it. Not to mention it is an M rated game unlike these other games rated E and T which have rules in place for toxicity.

The people we see complaining about it are just trying to take away the player's "freedoms" because their egos are too large to just mute the player themselves, or they're just crybabies and want revenge because their feelings got hurt. The mute function exists for this very reason. They need to just quit being a baby about it and ignore them.

And reddit of all places is the worst place to get any definitive knowledge of something like this. You'd need to be in our servers actually talking with the players, new and old, to really get a grasp on how they feel about this topic. Most of them trash talk each other and it's all just friendly banter. But if one player goes in and cries about it, would we be punishing our players for something that trivial? We'd see a rise in actual toxic players baiting people into getting silenced over nothing.

I would agree that putting in place a harassment rule might be beneficial. If a player constantly follows someone around just to harass them, we may end up losing that player, which I've actually seen happen, and the victim ignoring them may not always work.
 
I don’t play TF2 anymore and haven’t for years, but I don’t think a toxicity rule should be in place. Maybe something phrased a little more specific, but certain types of bullying and harassment are hard to track down and report. I never reported any of my harassment over the years because it was often difficult to prove. You’ll need to think carefully of the phrasing of this possible future rule.

I’ve been server stalked, had dudes threaten to rape me, start up the sexism gig sometimes when I first started using a mic in game, and the rest of the usual sludge that creeps on in. It never bothered me much, but we’ve had plenty of incidents over the years of women who weren’t okay with it and would take to the forums and get laughed out. I don’t think that’s happened in a very long time but my memory is very fuzzy about it. I could be wrong.

I get mostly bothered by adults in the servers bullying children more than anything. It’s gross and people shouldn’t be doing that.
 
I don’t play TF2 anymore and haven’t for years, but I don’t think a toxicity rule should be in place. Maybe something phrased a little more specific, but certain types of bullying and harassment are hard to track down and report. I never reported any of my harassment over the years because it was often difficult to prove. You’ll need to think carefully of the phrasing of this possible future rule.

I think times may be changing. Riot and Blizzard are doing it, other communities are doing it with relatively little backlash and as I've shown already, there are numerous people claiming we are a haven for toxicity as well as youtube videos.

I am not sure we can rely on our current players to say whether or not it is a good idea, because we've basically self selected our players for ones that have a tolerance for "toxicity" as those that could not stand it would not stay on our servers.
 
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