Declined Admin App: The Ur Pigeon

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Sarcasm said:
If reporting doesn't do enough, find an admin, add them, and report it.

Ask creeper how many times he's talked to an admin, and how quickly things have been resolved. We respond as fast as we can.
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I've done exactly this, you can confirm it with Kyosuke. Every single time I did, he was unable to connect in time (or at all), unable to gather evidence, unable to find the perpetrators, unable to do this, unable to do that. In fact, it's what originally inspired me to try and apply for administrator.

I know you guys really want to think that I'm just not doing all I can, but sometimes all a user can do isn't enough.
 
You're NOT doing all you can. If you're only relying on one admin. If you need more people, then add more people, do real reports, record demos. There's so much you can do. Yeah, sometimes we can't get there fast enough, but we can deal with it after the fact, if you record proof.

As for the whole victimizing yourself, you need to stop that. We're not calling you out because we're bored and we think its funny to make the person who got marked considering look awful, you're doing it to yourself.
 
Sarcasm said:
You're NOT doing all you can. If you're only relying on one admin. If you need more people, then add more people, do real reports, record demos. There's so much you can do. Yeah, sometimes we can't get there fast enough, but we can deal with it after the fact, if you record proof.

As for the whole victimizing yourself, you need to stop that. We're not calling you out because we're bored and we think its funny to make the person who got marked considering look awful, you're doing it to yourself.
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Alright, you're right. I could have hunted down and messaged eight different administrators about the problem until I was satisfied that a result was obtained.

But, as a user, if you contact an administrator with a problem several times and nothing comes from it, how excited do you think you're gonna be to track down another admin only to get the same result? At what point does what you're asking of a user become unreasonable, if ever?

I haven't once victimized myself. I came out and said that Killer Zebra's initial comment had no constructive value. That's because it didn't. I don't think even he would argue that.

EDIT: Also, at what point does it become really pedantic to PM blast eight admins with the same problem after one has already tried and failed to address it? At what point are you just wasting time? Never?
 
"I know you guys really want to think that I'm just not doing all I can, but sometimes all a user can do isn't enough."

Tell me how this isn't victimizing yourself? Tell me how you asking us for you to get to work already isn't you begging for admin, and using a regular leaving isn't vying for pity.

If it would make you feel better, you can add me, and I will do the job you're too lazy to do right now, while working. I don't mind, and I already do it for multiple regulars of other servers.

As a user, it is on you to record a demo of someone breaking the rules, and submitting it to us, where we can then deal with the person in question, and they won't come back, without being punished. As a potential candidate, its on you to take initiative, and add the admins and try and form a connection of trust and respect so that you can report, and show us you'd be good enough to become one of us. So far, I haven't seen that, and you've lost a HELL of a lot of respect from me, from this whole fiasco.

Am I victimizing you here? No, I'm telling you what I'm seeing and where you need to improve. Because right now, you're just not cutting it.
 
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2fort is constantly hit with trolls spouting out racism, sexism, spamming and just all around nastiness. I really enjoy the server because all of my friends play on it, I don't want to have to just "get over it" or "find another server". Reporting via the vote menu only does so much and even then most of the time it never passes, even when a majority of the people vote YES. Being able to enjoy playing a few rounds is almost impossible when you have people constantly talking shit, in my case because i am a woman just trying to play a game. What I don't understand is, when repeat offenders come back, and are reported MULTIPLE times and with using all the ways you have told Pigeon to do so, why are they always allowed to come back?
 
half_bloodprince said:
2fort is constantly hit with trolls spouting out racism, sexism, spamming and just all around nastiness. I really enjoy the server because all of my friends play on it, I don't want to have to just "get over it" or "find another server". Reporting via the vote menu only does so much and even then most of the time it never passes, even when a majority of the people vote YES. Being able to enjoy playing a few rounds is almost impossible when you have people constantly talking shit, in my case because i am a woman just trying to play a game. What I don't understand is, when repeat offenders come back, and are reported MULTIPLE times and with using all the ways you have told Pigeon to do so, why are they always allowed to come back?
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Show me the reports. Show me the demos you took about the people breaking the rules.
 
Sarcasm said:
"I know you guys really want to think that I'm just not doing all I can, but sometimes all a user can do isn't enough."

Tell me how this isn't victimizing yourself? Tell me how you asking us for you to get to work already isn't you begging for admin, and using a regular leaving isn't vying for pity.

If it would make you feel better, you can add me, and I will do the job you're too lazy to do right now, while working. I don't mind, and I already do it for multiple regulars of other servers.

As a user, it is on you to record a demo of someone breaking the rules, and submitting it to us, where we can then deal with the person in question, and they won't come back, without being punished. As a potential candidate, its on you to take initiative, and add the admins and try and form a connection of trust and respect so that you can report, and show us you'd be good enough to become one of us. So far, I haven't seen that, and you've lost a HELL of a lot of respect from me, from this whole fiasco.

Am I victimizing you here? No, I'm telling you what I'm seeing and where you need to improve. Because right now, you're just not cutting it.
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Alright, well, I guess I have to address this line-by-line. That wasn't victimizing myself. That was attempting to illustrate that sometimes a normal user just doesn't have the necessary resources to deal with every problem. If they did, we wouldn't need admins, would we?

Why, as an admin, do I have to track you down and make sure you're doing your job? Aren't you victimizing a little now? I mean I get admins can't be everywhere, but you can't just sit around waiting for users to do your job for you either. That's not reasonable. I get that a lot of administrators don't play 2FORT. It's an old map in an old game. But that shouldn't mean that Skial 2FORT servers are just left to their own devices. Still, I get that some admins don't like playing 2FORT. That was the point with my application. I do and I'll be there. Sorry to hear you've "lost respect" for me, but the people whose respect I am more concerned about garnering and keeping is that of those who play on the server. As I said to Dr. Shoe earlier, it shouldn't matter what people on the forum think about the 2FORT server unless they also frequent it. I also shouldn't have to enter a popularity contest with you guys if the people on the server are happy to have me help, which they have demonstrated already. It's all a little pre-teen.
 
The Ur Pigeon said:
Alright, well, I guess I have to address this line-by-line. That wasn't victimizing myself. That was attempting to illustrate that sometimes a normal user just doesn't have the necessary resources to deal with every problem. If they did, we wouldn't need admins, would we?

Why, as an admin, do I have to track you down and make sure you're doing your job? Aren't you victimizing a little now? I mean I get admins can't be everywhere, but you can't just sit around waiting for users to do your job for you either. That's not reasonable. I get that a lot of administrators don't play 2FORT. It's an old map in an old game. But that shouldn't mean that Skial 2FORT servers are just left to their own devices. Still, I get that some admins don't like playing 2FORT. That was the point with my application. I do and I'll be there. Sorry to hear you've "lost respect" for me, but the people whose respect I am more concerned about garnering and keeping is that of those who play on the server. As I said to Dr. Shoe earlier, it shouldn't matter what people on the forum think about the 2FORT server unless they also frequent it. I also shouldn't have to enter a popularity contest with you guys if the people on the server are happy to have me help, which they have demonstrated already. It's all a little pre-teen.
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As an admin his job is to ban people breaking the rules and respond to reports.
Your job as a regular is to make those reports and contact admins when a problem arises preferably with evidence in the event they can't get there in time.
So no, you're not doing your job.
 
Avenger and I play on 2fort sometimes, quite a bit. I've responded to reports quite a bit. I think for a while our average response time to reports was only a few minutes, thats better than most things..

I don't think 2fort is the reason things aren't being fixed... We could go through each report, and see how many of them came from 2fort US, and how many of them got resolved. Keep in mind there are 60 some odd servers, and there are only around 30 of us admins. We do try quite a bit, but a lot of us are busy with work and school and things that occur a lot. Its life, its how it goes. That being said, from work, I can connect with other admins, tell them where problems are, and have other people help me out when I am unable to. Does this mean I'm not doing my job? No, because the issues being brought to me are still being resolved.

You should be concerned whether or not we've lost respect for you, because the group of admins we have is a team, and we have to have at least a level of trust to manage things. In customer service at a job, you need to be able to trust that the people you work with made a correct decision, and were not impulsive. You need to be able to make sure that you're going to work well with them, because if you don't, people will conflict, and thats not a good atmosphere to have around. Its not pre-teen, its a work environment, and you'd need to get used to it, if you picked up admin.

In terms of keeping and garnering the respect from the people on the server, you gain that from being there and helping out, you gain that from working WITH the admins to create a healthy atmosphere. By complaining and not recording demos and bringing those to us, you're not proactively working to improve the community that you guys have on 2fort. You don't need to be an admin to record a demo, last I checked you can do it with a console command. You don't need to be an admin to report to us, with hard evidence. You don't need to be an admin, to add @Ruelel, and ask him to do things. He's one of the most active admins, and so long as you're not on jailbreak, he'll respond really fast.

I think you're giving too little credit to yourself as a user, you've got a lot of tools at your disposal, I just feel you're not using them in the best ways that you could. You could record a demo the moment someone says something racist, if they say it in chat, you can screenshot it. You can spectate and record demos via that, you can go to the reports section of the forum, and click that report button, and fill one out yourself. If you take a look at that section, you'll see there are VERY few reports that haven't been tagged, and looked at.
 
The Ur Pigeon said:
Seriously guys? You can't think of a situation ever in which reporting might not be enough? Or might not do its job?

Ever?



This is when you didn't read the thread.
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there should never be a reason for a report not to be adressed, admins aren't always online though and it can take a while for the report to get checked out.

Reporting will always work if it has enough valid evidence.
 
Changing to a -1

You have demonstrated a lack of maturity in this application that makes me uneasy. You have also demonstrated poor control of your emotions in your responses to everyone on the forum. I know it sounds silly, but as an admin sometimes you will have to put your emotions aside and make an unbiased decision. I don't see you as someone who could do that anymore. You also have to have the ability to not take things personally, which I also do not see in you anymore.
 
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I'm going to a -1. Its turned into a mini shirt storm over some one we should not really care about. When I play on normal servers I play 2-fort and I don't even see that many people breaking rules if any. I feel that she was saying or doing it for attention or something in that lines. And how you handled this is kinda immature in a way as you're trying to play the victim in all of this.
 
Sarcasm said:
He's one of the most active admins, and so long as you're not on jailbreak, he'll respond really fast
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Also, if you happen to be on jailbreak (which I doubt you will but still), its my homeland and I even made the new rules post for it. I can help you out 100%.
 
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Yuck. Consider this application withdrawn. I have no interest in working with people that are keener on stroking one another than admitting that neither they, nor the system they represent are flawless. I'll leave you with this, a comment sent to me by another server regular who supported my application and will remain anonymous, since I really don't trust you guys to not go for their throat now either.

One of the People That Play on Your Servers said:
yeah, fuck this im done with skial
if the existing admin want to berate those that are telling the truth, and offer nothing constructive to it, why would i want to be apart of something that is unenjoyable? where almost every single time i join im berated and talked so much shit to, to where i want to fucking cry, just because im a woman? having to endure horrible racist bullshit all the time too. but no, let's not blame and punish those that are doing it, let's blame the ones that want to make a difference and are actually using TF2 and the server for what it was made for
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EDIT: Before the claim gets made, no, this was not the same person that gave up on 2FORT earlier.
 
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