New Changing Payload Servers to 40 player is a mistake

Sam Alt-Man

Sam Alt-Man

Uncharitable Spy
Contributor
I searched the forum but don't see discussion on the recent change. Changing the PL server to allow up to 40 players (plus VIP if any) is a mistake. The rounds already feel different. Areas of the map that were already prone to being unbalanced toward RED or BLU now feel unplayable at times. 32 was already a stretch beyond how the game was designed, but usually works. This takes it way beyond what these maps can handle. I'd vote we change it back.
 
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Really glad to hear of and see the change back to 32 players on the Payload+ US server this afternoon. I look forward to getting back to some TF2 this week! I hope that if the EU folks feel the same, their voices will also be heard and the change will soon follow there as well at a convenient time.
 
I would love to see EU Payload reverted to 32 players. I've really tried to enjoy playing with 40 but it just doesn't lend itself to any kind of interesting game play. It used to be a good balance of strategic plays, funny doings and utter chaos, now every game plays out in the same spammy way.
 
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This isn't about seeing bigger numbers, this is about the survival of the server.

I am sure many of you who keep a close eye on the server have noticed that it is taking later to fill up in the day and emptying out earlier in the night these past few months before I changed the slot count.

I want you to think about whether you would like the server to be around for the next 10 years or if you would rather have the server die than to have the settings changed from your personal preference.

I have always chosen what was better for our servers in the long term and that is why we are still around while countless other communities that insisted on staying 24 slots have died out.
 
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Bottiger said:
This isn't about seeing bigger numbers, this is about the survival of the server.

I am sure many of you who keep a close eye on the server have noticed that it is taking later to fill up in the day and emptying out earlier in the night these past few months before I changed the slot count.

I want you to think about whether you would like the server to be around for the next 10 years or if you would rather have the server die than to have the settings changed from your personal preference.

I have always chosen what was better for our servers in the long term and that is why we are still around while countless other communities that insisted on staying 24 slots have died out.
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40 players is way too much for a decent gameplay. You switched back in US, do it in EU.
 
So it says in the contributor TOS that
  • There is no guarantee your favorite servers will be up for as long as you have benefits.
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There are ppl here whose favorite servers are gone now.

I don't know how many times it should be said. 32 was playable and fine, 40 is not.
It's really hard to see how this could be a saving grace for any server. I, for one, stay away from those bloated servers. Also, I will not renew my contributor status if those servers remain at 40.

Well, it's good to know the servers will supposedly go on and thrive without the regulars. Not speaking of myself rly, but I've noticed both EU Dustbowl and Payload having their own, wonderful ecosystems. This change is disruptive and counterintuitive. Somehow reminds me of what is going on in the US rn.

Maybe there are other reasons why servers have been more quiet as of late. Turbine has been hit too.

Btw, changes to the player limits would, imo, warrant at least an announcement in Discord. If it's done to ensure the future of the servers, why not tell about it and give the reasoning behind the change?
 
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Bottiger said:
This isn't about seeing bigger numbers, this is about the survival of the server.

I am sure many of you who keep a close eye on the server have noticed that it is taking later to fill up in the day and emptying out earlier in the night these past few months before I changed the slot count.

I want you to think about whether you would like the server to be around for the next 10 years or if you would rather have the server die than to have the settings changed from your personal preference.

I have always chosen what was better for our servers in the long term and that is why we are still around while countless other communities that insisted on staying 24 slots have died out.
Click to expand...
Ah, the tried and true New Coke/Old Coke switcheroo to stimulate interest in the server. A polite golf clap for you.

And my heartfelt thanks to Rexa for obliging with my impromptu good cop/bad cop routine.

...oh, and please do the same for my EU friends as well or we'll see more of Juan over here :p
 
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Bottiger said:
This isn't about seeing bigger numbers, this is about the survival of the server.

I am sure many of you who keep a close eye on the server have noticed that it is taking later to fill up in the day and emptying out earlier in the night these past few months before I changed the slot count.

I want you to think about whether you would like the server to be around for the next 10 years or if you would rather have the server die than to have the settings changed from your personal preference.

I have always chosen what was better for our servers in the long term and that is why we are still around while countless other communities that insisted on staying 24 slots have died out.
Click to expand...
I used to regularly play Turbine+ Eu server when it was still 32 players but after you changed it to 64 players the server was totally unplayable. The spam was already bad enough because it was turbine who could have guessed but it became such a spam fest that it was not enjoyable anymore and looking at the player statistics the server has been dead for a very long time now, so i dont really get your point of ''survival of the server'' by increasing the number of players when it has done the opposite in the past.
 
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Bottiger said:
This isn't about seeing bigger numbers, this is about the survival of the server.

I am sure many of you who keep a close eye on the server have noticed that it is taking later to fill up in the day and emptying out earlier in the night these past few months before I changed the slot count.

I want you to think about whether you would like the server to be around for the next 10 years or if you would rather have the server die than to have the settings changed from your personal preference.

I have always chosen what was better for our servers in the long term and that is why we are still around while countless other communities that insisted on staying 24 slots have died out.
Click to expand...
I said it the last time the survival of the server was mentioned in your post, it is the lack of admin and community curation causing this. You don't have a good admin representation on Payload+ US at least, and based on the responses here, EU lacks as well. It does not hinge on a gimmick of player count.

In the last few months a major event in the US happened and has been an extremely boring and tedious topic on the server that some of the folks LOVE to not shut up about. I come there to play TF2 not to hear folks whine about their views because it's fun to troll certain community members into instigating them into long ramblings. If you believe it's the player count that caused folks to leave, then sorry, you're out of touch. I have actively left early or ignored joining because of certain people being online in the evenings that join purely to stir shit up and I know a lot of other regulars who have as well. The fact that it went up to 40 players was the thing that made me not care about the life of the server anymore because now even the game play sucked.

Now that it's back to 32, we could drill into some of the real issues if we want to discuss how to keep it alive.

If we want to talk gimmicks instead of community curation:

Something I believe may be happening is a sort of "search engine optimization" (SEO) problem. The server browser allows folks to sort by players. If they sort by that, a higher count often appears higher if the server contains that many players. It doesn't sort by total slots, though. So with 40 being a bigger number, it appears higher in a way I imagine many users may be using the server browser. If that's the case, well, sorry -- that's a bad thing to optimize for because it ruins the game most of us are seeking to play as proof by the receipts Puuro provided about the Turbine+EU server (bigger number =/= longer life). Find a different way to defeat the evil server browser/valve being shit at supporting community servers than this gimmick.

I haven't done a search, but what happened to the betting plugin? That was a great feature that caused folks to focus on gameplay, want to stick around, and caused conversation topics that didn't suck. These are the types of gimmicks that should be added that make it worth playing on your servers. Fun cushions around the vanilla-ish TF2 that we all love. These grow people's interest in returning to a fun place to play and talk. I'm a dev and community builder myself, and would be happy to talk or get some designers together to figure things out that could be done if engineer or management power is something you need help with.

Also, please listen to the calls of my EU friends as well or I suspect the issue will cannibalize them away and be even less likely to fill the US server sooner when they move over.
 
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When I'm in a coping and rage baiting competition and my opponent is a skial admin. (Its over)
 

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Jeffel said:
I said it the last time the survival of the server was mentioned in your post, it is the lack of admin and community curation causing this. You don't have a good admin representation on Payload+ US at least, and based on the responses here, EU lacks as well. It does not hinge on a gimmick of player count.

In the last few months a major event in the US happened and has been an extremely boring and tedious topic on the server that some of the folks LOVE to not shut up about. I come there to play TF2 not to hear folks whine about their views because it's fun to troll certain community members into instigating them into long ramblings. If you believe it's the player count that caused folks to leave, then sorry, you're out of touch. I have actively left early or ignored joining because of certain people being online in the evenings that join purely to stir shit up and I know a lot of other regulars who have as well. The fact that it went up to 40 players was the thing that made me not care about the life of the server anymore because now even the game play sucked.

Now that it's back to 32, we could drill into some of the real issues if we want to discuss how to keep it alive.

If we want to talk gimmicks instead of community curation:

Something I believe may be happening is a sort of "search engine optimization" (SEO) problem. The server browser allows folks to sort by players. If they sort by that, a higher count often appears higher if the server contains that many players. It doesn't sort by total slots, though. So with 40 being a bigger number, it appears higher in a way I imagine many users may be using the server browser. If that's the case, well, sorry -- that's a bad thing to optimize for because it ruins the game most of us are seeking to play as proof by the receipts Puuro provided about the Turbine+EU server (bigger number =/= longer life). Find a different way to defeat the evil server browser/valve being shit at supporting community servers than this gimmick.

I haven't done a search, but what happened to the betting plugin? That was a great feature that caused folks to focus on gameplay, want to stick around, and caused conversation topics that didn't suck. These are the types of gimmicks that should be added that make it worth playing on your servers. Fun cushions around the vanilla-ish TF2 that we all love. These grow people's interest in returning to a fun place to play and talk. I'm a dev and community builder myself, and would be happy to talk or get some designers together to figure things out that could be done if engineer or management power is something you need help with.

Also, please listen to the calls of my EU friends as well or I suspect the issue will cannibalize them away and be even less likely to fill the US server sooner when they move over.
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On the topic of political discussion, you have the ability to selectively mute people yourself. There’s nothing against the rules against that sort of discussion, it’s been around since Skial started and you’ll hear the same beats on a Valve server. I agree that people who choose to spout their political beliefs on a TF2 server are bottom of the barrel members of society, but it wouldn’t be fair to start handing out silences or bans if they want to engage in that type of discourse. Client side mute those defenders of democracy and move on.
 
@Bottiger
Yesterday i noticed people from EU (including me) leaving the EU server and joining US server because of the 32 player. I prefer playing with 150 ping than playing 40 player.
 
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Jeffel said:
I said it the last time the survival of the server was mentioned in your post, it is the lack of admin and community curation causing this. You don't have a good admin representation on Payload+ US at least, and based on the responses here, EU lacks as well. It does not hinge on a gimmick of player count.
Click to expand...
This is just false. We've never had a lot of admin coverage on the payload servers and they were doing fine before. Valve servers have 0 admins.
 
Blade D_Hero said:
On the topic of political discussion, you have the ability to selectively mute people yourself. There’s nothing against the rules against that sort of discussion, it’s been around since Skial started and you’ll hear the same beats on a Valve server. I agree that people who choose to spout their political beliefs on a TF2 server are bottom of the barrel members of society, but it wouldn’t be fair to start handing out silences or bans if they want to engage in that type of discourse. Client side mute those defenders of democracy and move on.
Click to expand...
Aye, and I certainly do! Thanks for the reminder, and I'd also say that the /ignore feature Skial offers is great when the built-in mute features of TF2 (often) fail!

But there's a few bad actors who are specific pot-stirrers who seem to have a singular purpose of antagonizing and harassing others purposefully into those discussions or other long-winded conversation capturing tirades that kill the mood or encourage other trolls to pile on. They laugh in the face of the Skial rules and love to edge against the line of what they can get away with. I specifically didn't clarify that it was a political event because it extends beyond that in this case as well! But now we're getting off topic to things an admin presence might notice if they were engaged on the server to examine why the server dies earlier...

For this thread, the resounding answer is: Revert to 32 for healthier game play and community!
 
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