New Changing Payload Servers to 40 player is a mistake

[Sam Alt-Man]

I searched the forum but don't see discussion on the recent change. Changing the PL server to allow up to 40 players (plus VIP if any) is a mistake. The rounds already feel different. Areas of the map that were already prone to being unbalanced toward RED or BLU now feel unplayable at times. 32 was already a stretch beyond how the game was designed, but usually works. This takes it way beyond what these maps can handle. I'd vote we change it back.

 

[Cream Tea]

In my experience scout has never been very effective on payload maps due to the nature of their layouts. There's rarely any flanking routes so you are forced to go through the choke point like everyone else except you only have a scattergun and 125hp.

 

[hug sports]

I just wanna say that I called this multiple days ago.

And I’ve been a consistent donator and supporter for almost 4 years. It just really sucks that the community is not listened to.

 

[Jeffel]

Many of the same arguments being made about 40 slots being bad were the same when we increased slots from 24 to 32. Its just a matter of how many people prefer one over another.

So far we recorded an increase in players of 5% for payload us and 28% for payload eu after increasing slots to 40. What spurred this change is that the payload servers have been slowing filling up later and later in the day and emptying out earlier at night for the past few months. Meanwhile, I noticed another community that basically went from 0 players to filling every day when they switched to 40 slots.

We could increase the sapper damage to make sentry nests less of an issue which is a strategy we used for the 100 slot server, but I don't know if we can fix the other issues like scouts being less impactful.

I regularly play scout, and reducing to 32 players would solve the issues you said. It's just too crowded on maps that are too small for that many players. Piling on more scripted changes and shenanigans is making more potential for bugs and imbalance than just keeping a steady amount of players. Of course you've had a player increase with more slots - I'd be curious what those stats actually mean and if they're actually donors or not and how many are new and returning stable members.

I'm sure there were complaints going to 32 back in the day too, and they're valid -- but 32 has become normal chaos with its own flaws. It was the accepted normalcy with strain. The problem is clearly worse. You admitted there are problems increasing -- this is NOT merely a "people prefer one over another" when the gameplay is actively breaking down and proposed fixes are scripted changes to gameplay elements.

To derail, but still keep on the topic of keeping the servers full: Rather than expanding to a gimmick of more people as a band-aid, I would rather be a strong advocate for better admin attention on payload being a reason that they were emptying more. Folks are sick of the political rambling and harassment and nothing being done. Curate the community with some effort to make your community worth it. In the last months I have just turned voice off or leave early to get out of the tedious and mood killer ramblings and arguments because nothing is done. I miss being able to have voice on regularly. Now, with even the gameplay totally busted it is the end for me and many others.

I do not plan to renew my donator status and regret getting as much time as I did this last renewal. I have no TF2 home on Skial anymore if this change is not reverted. I know many others feel the same way.

 

[argh]

Many of the same arguments being made about 40 slots being bad were the same when we increased slots from 24 to 32. Its just a matter of how many people prefer one over another.

So far we recorded an increase in players of 5% for payload us and 28% for payload eu after increasing slots to 40. What spurred this change is that the payload servers have been slowly filling up later and later in the day and emptying out earlier at night for the past few months. Meanwhile, I noticed another community that basically went from 0 players to filling every day when they switched to 40 slots.

We could increase the sapper damage to make sentry nests less of an issue which is a strategy we used for the 100 slot server, but I don't know if we can fix the other issues like scouts being less impactful.

Respectfully, there are a number of concerning points here. The difference between moving from 24>32 is not the same as 32>40. 32 players has been the vanilla max for over a decade with maps designed for that amount. 6v6 plays different from 12v12, and 16v16 plays different from 20v20 and it's not a change that should be made lightly. I also don't want you making your own balance changes to sappers or any other weapons. I'm here to play VANILLA TF2 and I believe a lot of your donating regulars that play there want that as well.

I personally am going to speak with my wallet on this issue if it's not reverted.

 

[Strudels]

Many of the same arguments being made about 40 slots being bad were the same when we increased slots from 24 to 32. Its just a matter of how many people prefer one over another.

So far we recorded an increase in players of 5% for payload us and 28% for payload eu after increasing slots to 40. What spurred this change is that the payload servers have been slowly filling up later and later in the day and emptying out earlier at night for the past few months. Meanwhile, I noticed another community that basically went from 0 players to filling every day when they switched to 40 slots.

We could increase the sapper damage to make sentry nests less of an issue which is a strategy we used for the 100 slot server, but I don't know if we can fix the other issues like scouts being less impactful.

40/32 = 1.25 so of course you will see an increase of players if there are more slots 🤦‍♂️
Of course I have no way to know what exactly goes into that 5% and 28%, but it seems like EU doesn't mind it, but US does. If this was effective you would see an increase of about 25% players, but only 5% seems that it's not doing much.

 

[Fresh Sasha]

What a shame that the 'leadership' has actively proven to not care about their core community, because all they see is big number. It honestly just sounds like you made this change on a whim because you saw another server have success with it, but did not clarify if they had any kind of discussion with their community, test trials, etc. before implementing it. I hadn't been on the server for a while due to real life obligations but after this I have no intention of coming back, which is a shame because I'd been around the Skial sphere for years but if this is how you'll treat those who voice their concerns then it's not a community I want to be a part of any longer.

 

[Rexatronz]

Anything is possible with the power of friendship Sonic.

 

[Mr.XxX]

Many of the same arguments being made about 40 slots being bad were the same when we increased slots from 24 to 32. Its just a matter of how many people prefer one over another.

So far we recorded an increase in players of 5% for payload us and 28% for payload eu after increasing slots to 40. What spurred this change is that the payload servers have been slowly filling up later and later in the day and emptying out earlier at night for the past few months. Meanwhile, I noticed another community that basically went from 0 players to filling every day when they switched to 40 slots.

We could increase the sapper damage to make sentry nests less of an issue which is a strategy we used for the 100 slot server, but I don't know if we can fix the other issues like scouts being less impactful.

So respectfully then what the fuck is the hole point of the suggestion forum if you don't respect the communities vote?
I understand that not every wish or vote can be respected, but this one is one you can and should.

We, the players, the customers have made you aware of our concern that we do not like this change through numerous complains that are well proven. You have decided to completely disregard this concern because you just care about numbers and not about us. And then, the suggested solution to one of the many problems is "increase the sapper damage to make sentry nests less of an issue which is a strategy we used for the 100 slot server". Seriously?

It is your server and you are free to do with it as you wish, but If this is your finally answer to this situation, then i have no interest anymore to pay for this. I did pay for vip not only that i can join faster but also because i appreciated the community and the 32 player server that skial had to offer and wanted to support that, and not for this.

You now you will probably say: "Then don't pay anymore you're just a single person, why should i care about that?".
Sure you can look at it like that. But i'm not the first one in this thread that already mentioned not to continue to pay anymore.

Everybody will see how fucking poorly this situation has been handled so far, and i'm sure more people will cancel vip payment because of this.



Im sure skial did not build its reputation and its player base with such a pathetic excuse of a customer service.

 

[guyfrompayload]

In my opinion, this is just a temporary boom. During peak hours, it was difficult for people to get into a match—only those who truly wanted to play were willing to wait 15 minutes, and that wasn’t a drawback at all. At first, I thought: 40 players? Awesome! But after playing for a few days, my opinion completely changed.

Not to mention the need to tweak the TF2 config just to maintain stable performance during choke points. Most people turn a blind eye to this at the moment because the community has no alternative. So yes, there are more players now, but if many of them don’t enjoy it, they probably won’t stick around. That means losing part of the active player base, and then you’re relying on luck—hoping that these new players will build a community despite the absence.

Adding eight more players on top of the already increased player count, without any map adjustments, just isn’t a good idea for long sessions. Making such drastic changes without prior surveys or playtests seems very strange in the eyes of the community.

It should be time-limited events for now, then maybe everyone would probably like it more and adjust to this after some time

 

[Rexatronz]

Sorry deleted Meme

 

[argh]

I think this meme explains everything.

I had some more but didn't work posting.

Hey Rexa, I have a truth nuke of my own. Shut the fuck up.

Changing someone's mind on the Internet is already a monumental task and this isn't making it easier to get our desired outcome. At least save it until we get the hard NO, or make a real argument. Like, why are we at your only US Payload server getting shafted with this player count increase while you have literally TEN 2FORT servers still with stock maxplayers? Or the Hightower or Harvest server?

 

[Rexatronz]

Sorry about that, it's just that there was no other server like that in TF2 and I got a bit carried away.
And to make it even better I will delete it to help this forum out until we get the hard no.

 

[Hedo Bot]

Split the difference and adjust it to a 38 man server as an experiment. See if the choke point complaints ease up a bit.

 

[Paolitux]

Am a donator and i am surprise u don't listen ur community only for "numnber". 32>>>40 is a biggest change then 24 to 32. Plz we all miss 32 player serv.

 

[Cream Tea]

If any changes were to be made I think a class limit on engineer would be more appropriate than tampering with sapper damage values.

 

[Strudels]

Hey Rexa, I have a truth nuke of my own. Shut the fuck up.

Changing someone's mind on the Internet is already a monumental task and this isn't making it easier to get our desired outcome. At least save it until we get the hard NO, or make a real argument. Like, why are we at your only US Payload server getting shafted with this player count increase while you have literally TEN 2FORT servers still with stock maxplayers? Or the Hightower or Harvest server?

Because people who have been around for more than a day know exactly how this story plays out.

 

[Definitely not ra.sp]

Make SKIAL great again! #32

 

[puuro.]

+1 revert it back. Theres no benefit increasing it to 40 players.

 

[hug sports]

 

[hug sports]

Thank you for changing it back!!