Arcala

Mildly Menacing Medic
Contributor
Yes, I'm aware that this is controversial to post, and I'm sure it won't get any traction amongst Skial admins but here goes anyway!

I believe there is no reason for micspamming or using a soundboard to be punishable by muting and gagging, and here's a couple reasons why:

Number 1, TF2 has a built in mute function, and Skial Servers have the !ignore command. Players on the Skial servers already have ability to mute and gag people that they don't want to hear from without needing to report these players and add extra work onto the admins. This is something that is already being preached by the admins. This is an example that has been told to me , I wasn't here for these particular events, but recently there was a kid who was screaming and yelling and being generally obnoxious in the voice chat, and someone had started a votemute. The votemute failed and an admin had this to say:
1688577537964.png

What's the difference between the above situation and someone who micspams? Arguably there's nothing that separates the two aside from the content being played over the microphone, just use !ignore to mute the player playing music over the VC just like you would do so to mute an annoying kid screaming over VC. Alternatively you can even use the built in mute function in TF2 to mute these problem players yourself as well, though doing it this way prevents you from seeing their chat messages. This leads into my next point:

Number 2, users are able to votesilence. If it gets to a point where enough users are irritated, players have the ability to call a votesilence on a user for 30 minutes if the vote passes. Now ultimately doing this is pretty worthless when you have access to !ignore and the mute button, but it's still very much a valid option if a majority of players do not like what is being played, or if a particular user is crossing boundaries or being a nuisance.

Now I know what you might say next: "But Arcala, you only play on surf servers, you don't understand how that could affect servers like Payload or Casual where users need to be able to hear each other to coordinate pushes and call out spies!" That's a very valid point to bring up, but I would have to refer you back to my first paragraph: Ultimately you have your own power to mute these people, you don't have to listen to them if you don't want to. Skial and TF2 gives you the tools to curate your own playing experience. Let's talk about implementation for a moment, shall we? Despite everything I've talked about you may still be hesitant to allow micspamming on more serious servers like Casual and Payload, or even on something less serious like the Trade servers as micspamming can prevent people actively trying to set prices and advertise their wares. I also know that allowing exceptions to rules can be messy and a slippery slope if handled incorrectly, but I'd like to suggest making exceptions for servers where the feel of the game is already silly and fairly easy going. Servers that come to mind that are a great example of this are Zombie Escape, Death Run, Freak Fortress, Idle Trade, High Tower, 2Fort, and my favorite and home server: Surf.

In conclusion, I understand that micspamming isn't for everyone, but every user has the capability to curate their own player experience, whether that be through using !ignore, using the mute button that TF2 comes with natively, or votesilencing someone that the whole server disagrees with. Even if you don't allow micspamming on all servers, just a few, player retention should rise and the amount of reports admins need to respond to should fall, theoretically. I hope that I made a compelling argument for the inclusion of micspamming in Skial servers, and if not I hope that this was at least a decent read even if it may have been slightly rambly.

Regards,
Arcala
 

Seminal Inhalation

Legendary Skial King
Contributor
I agree that neither of them should've micspammed as it is against the rules and they should've known they would get muted. But nobody has yet to answer WHY it is against the rules when so many options exist to make it not a problem. This isn't about trying to win a score, its about opening a discussion about the possibility of this rule not being necessary.

and TBH it seems like all of the people -1ing aren't even attempting to think about if it really is necessary. Ya'll gang up for what reason?
- Annoying
- Nuisance
- Few people care for it
- Low quality
- Micspamming isn't special anymore
- More reasons on the other suggestion.

If you personally like it, feel free to make your own server specifically for micspamming. Servers without rules against spam tend to die extremely quickly.
 

Stove™

Positively Inhumane Poster
I agree that neither of them should've micspammed as it is against the rules and they should've known they would get muted. But nobody has yet to answer WHY it is against the rules when so many options exist to make it not a problem. This isn't about trying to win a score, its about opening a discussion about the possibility of this rule not being necessary.

and TBH it seems like all of the people -1ing aren't even attempting to think about if it really is necessary. Ya'll gang up for what reason?
Spam in itself is irrelevant and annoying; why do you think it's called "micspam"? Because it's irrelevant and annoying.
Yes, there is a command, a client-side mute, and a votemenu, but why should it be necessary for people to continuously do that when the person doing the micspamming can just... not do it? What purpose does it serve other than to be obnoxious?

You wanna argue that people want music to listen to while they play? I can literally recommend you some music streaming services that'll do just that without having to blast it through TF2's voice comms.

Take it from me: I was a former micspammer when I played on these servers. People got annoyed of it very quickly. I was also muted and gagged at one point for it, so I stopped doing it. Is self-control honestly that difficult?
 

Freens

Mildly Menacing Medic
Spam in itself is irrelevant and annoying; why do you think it's called "micspam"? Because it's irrelevant and annoying.
Yes, there is a command, a client-side mute, and a votemenu, but why should it be necessary for people to continuously do that when the person doing the micspamming can just... not do it? What purpose does it serve other than to be obnoxious?

You wanna argue that people want music to listen to while they play? I can literally recommend you some music streaming services that'll do just that without having to blast it through TF2's voice comms.

Take it from me: I was a former micspammer when I played on these servers. People got annoyed of it very quickly. I was also muted and gagged at one point for it, so I stopped doing it. Is self-control honestly that difficult?
The issue isnt just plain music, its what you label as micspam. I had a friend READING CHAT in vc get muted for a month by kalash. Any vocal gags or 2 second sound clips in voice chat become a target for you guys to ban. It ruins the environment as now everyone is afraid to try and do a bit, because the possibility of one of the Skial mods lurking in spectator waiting to mute them is very real.

Micspamming music IS ANNOYING and I don't like it personally. What I have an issue with, is what the moderation team labels as micspam.
I personally do not care if playing music in voice chat is banned for good, but if some dude reading a copypasta in vc, reading chat, or simply pressing a button on their soundboard is ALSO micspam.

I feel there needs to be a more specific outline of what is and isn't micspam, because currently, its possible to lable almost anything as "spam".

I enjoy playing on Skial and I don't want what I have known to love as surf culture be stomped out by some technicality in the rules.
 

LizzieSteph

TF2 Admin
Contributor
elaborate ?
As stated previously in this thread it enables bad behavior. if micspamming was allowed on all servers first people would just play music but it wouldn't take long for people to start blasting god knows what over VC its why the "no micspamming of any kind" rule exists
 
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Freens

Mildly Menacing Medic
As stated previously in this thread it enables bad behavior. if micspamming was allowed on all servers first people would just play music but it wouldn't take long for people to start blasting god knows what over VC its why the "no micspamming of any kind" rule exists
what is "bad behavior" and how does the use of ones ACTUAL VOICE not cause the same problems? If you can moderate what people say. why cant you moderate what people play?
 

SIS

Uncharitable Spy
Once again, is it that hard to just not micspam? There's no benefits to it other than to be annoying.
Pretty much what this guy said.
The whole entire purpose of micspamming is literally to just be annoying especially when half of the people who micspam are mainly Neo Nazi's, unfunny memers and just people who spam shit u dont want to hear (especially on deathrun or surf). Ignore may help prevent these problems but it doesnt negate the effect of what everyone has been pretty much saying in this thread, annoying.
 

Legless

Unremarkable User
Believe it or not, some people enjoy good micspam, myself included. Micspam is different from just playing your own music. It’s an experience being had with other people in the server. I’ve had great experiences with good micspam where the guy is basically a dj, taking suggestions and allowing multiple people in a server to vibe or listen to something interesting with each other as a community experience. To me, being mad at micspamming is like going to a club and being like, why is this guy playing this loud ass music?

My point is that there are players whose experiences are enhanced by micspam. Sure, it may be a minority of players, and I understand how people can be annoyed by it, but there are already multiple tools that allow players that don’t enjoy it to disable it and cater to their individual gameplay experience. I don’t see why it has to be a rule when players have the tools readily available to deal with it themselves. And I don’t believe allowing it promotes bad behavior, people will micspam regardless of rules. It can just be moderated based on content rather than the action itself just like any other chat method, and I believe it would be a community engagement tool that can be used responsibly. You have the tools to stop micspam on an individual basis, but with a rule preventing it, micspam enjoyers don’t have a method to enable it. +1
 
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Freens

Mildly Menacing Medic
Once again, is it that hard to just not micspam? There's no benefits to it other than to be annoying.
You're completely brushing aside the people who find it the material being played enjoyable and aren't annoyed. Not everything being played through a microphone is a nazi speech or offensive beyond belief. A vast majority of micspam in my experience is either A- Music (which I personally don't enjoy as per the shitty quality), or B- A soundpad which is often used at opportune moments for comedic effect.

The issue is almost ANYTHING can be labeled as spam or micspam. Talking to long in VC? Yeah I guess that's technically *mic-spam*. A 2 second sound effect on a soundboard, yelling, laughing, the list goes on.

The rules for what does and doesn't constitute *spam* are not clear enough imo in order for making all of it a gag and muteable offense, especially when the determining factor is the admin's opinion on if its spam.
 

Freens

Mildly Menacing Medic
Believe it or not, some people enjoy good micspam, myself included. Micspam is different from just playing your own music. It’s an experience being had with other people in the server. I’ve had great experiences with good micspam where the guy is basically a dj, taking suggestions and allowing multiple people in a server to vibe with each other as a community experience. To me, being mad at micspamming is like going to a club and being like, why is this guy playing this loud ass music?

My point is that there are players whose experiences are enhanced by micspam. Sure, it may be a minority of players, and I understand how people can be annoyed by it, but there are already multiple tools that allow players that don’t enjoy it to disable it and cater to their individual gameplay experience. I don’t see why it has to be a rule when players have the tools readily available to deal with it themselves. And I don’t believe allowing it promotes bad behavior, people will micspam regardless of rules. It can just be moderated based on content rather than the action itself just like any other chat method, and I believe it would be a community engagement tool that can be used responsibly. You have the tools to stop micspam on an individual basis, but with a rule preventing it, micspam enjoyers don’t have a method to enable it. +1
Believe it or not, reacting with a png doesn't refute an argument @Seminal Inhalation , @Stove™
 

Legless

Unremarkable User
I would implore the people here against micspamming to listen to those on the other side of the argument. This post is made for a reason, and like you mentioned, this is not a new opinion being brought forth. Please don’t demonize or belittle the people you disagree with. There are normal players that enjoy micspamming, and they’re part of the community as well, and willing to use it responsibly. Like I said, you have the tools to stop it, but we don’t have the tools to enjoy it, aside from going to a different server, which is frankly unreasonable and not a good suggestion for a community to make to its members.
 

Freens

Mildly Menacing Medic
I would implore the people here against micspamming to listen to those on the other side of the argument. This post is made for a reason, and like you mentioned, this is not a new opinion being brought forth. Please don’t demonize the people you disagree with. There are normal players that enjoy micspamming, and they’re part of the community as well, and willing to use it responsibly. Like I said, you have the tools to stop it, but we don’t have the tools to enjoy it.
I agree, none of you are actually even considering it and are instead so annoyed that someone would even think to ask. Quit being condescending and actually make an argument.