Arcala

Mildly Menacing Medic
Contributor
Yes, I'm aware that this is controversial to post, and I'm sure it won't get any traction amongst Skial admins but here goes anyway!

I believe there is no reason for micspamming or using a soundboard to be punishable by muting and gagging, and here's a couple reasons why:

Number 1, TF2 has a built in mute function, and Skial Servers have the !ignore command. Players on the Skial servers already have ability to mute and gag people that they don't want to hear from without needing to report these players and add extra work onto the admins. This is something that is already being preached by the admins. This is an example that has been told to me , I wasn't here for these particular events, but recently there was a kid who was screaming and yelling and being generally obnoxious in the voice chat, and someone had started a votemute. The votemute failed and an admin had this to say:
1688577537964.png

What's the difference between the above situation and someone who micspams? Arguably there's nothing that separates the two aside from the content being played over the microphone, just use !ignore to mute the player playing music over the VC just like you would do so to mute an annoying kid screaming over VC. Alternatively you can even use the built in mute function in TF2 to mute these problem players yourself as well, though doing it this way prevents you from seeing their chat messages. This leads into my next point:

Number 2, users are able to votesilence. If it gets to a point where enough users are irritated, players have the ability to call a votesilence on a user for 30 minutes if the vote passes. Now ultimately doing this is pretty worthless when you have access to !ignore and the mute button, but it's still very much a valid option if a majority of players do not like what is being played, or if a particular user is crossing boundaries or being a nuisance.

Now I know what you might say next: "But Arcala, you only play on surf servers, you don't understand how that could affect servers like Payload or Casual where users need to be able to hear each other to coordinate pushes and call out spies!" That's a very valid point to bring up, but I would have to refer you back to my first paragraph: Ultimately you have your own power to mute these people, you don't have to listen to them if you don't want to. Skial and TF2 gives you the tools to curate your own playing experience. Let's talk about implementation for a moment, shall we? Despite everything I've talked about you may still be hesitant to allow micspamming on more serious servers like Casual and Payload, or even on something less serious like the Trade servers as micspamming can prevent people actively trying to set prices and advertise their wares. I also know that allowing exceptions to rules can be messy and a slippery slope if handled incorrectly, but I'd like to suggest making exceptions for servers where the feel of the game is already silly and fairly easy going. Servers that come to mind that are a great example of this are Zombie Escape, Death Run, Freak Fortress, Idle Trade, High Tower, 2Fort, and my favorite and home server: Surf.

In conclusion, I understand that micspamming isn't for everyone, but every user has the capability to curate their own player experience, whether that be through using !ignore, using the mute button that TF2 comes with natively, or votesilencing someone that the whole server disagrees with. Even if you don't allow micspamming on all servers, just a few, player retention should rise and the amount of reports admins need to respond to should fall, theoretically. I hope that I made a compelling argument for the inclusion of micspamming in Skial servers, and if not I hope that this was at least a decent read even if it may have been slightly rambly.

Regards,
Arcala
 

Sakiko

Moderator
Contributor
Team fortress Codec for voice chat is weak and low quality for music it was designed for VOICE chat not wana be dj spamming music that not everyone wants to hear. This is also a P2P system wasting bandwith and resources to decode not just for the server but each user.

Having been a admin when we did kinda allow this the music would either include racism (silenced for ) Ear rape (silenced for ) and poor quality (spammed by phone speaker to a mic and silenced for) and breaks the enjoyment of playing the server and chatting.

Due to better systems to do this like users creating a shoutcast server they can spam on there is another issue at hand playing music over the internet without paying royalties is against the law, half of the stuff spammed is also rubbish trust me i heard nothing of value spammed.

If you want to create a private channel or buy a shoutcast then go ahead as for playing it over skial a big fat -1000000000 here
 
Yes, I'm aware that this is controversial to post, and I'm sure it won't get any traction amongst Skial admins but here goes anyway!

I believe there is no reason for micspamming or using a soundboard to be punishable by muting and gagging, and here's a couple reasons why:

Number 1, TF2 has a built in mute function, and Skial Servers have the !ignore command. Players on the Skial servers already have ability to mute and gag people that they don't want to hear from without needing to report these players and add extra work onto the admins. This is something that is already being preached by the admins. This is an example that has been told to me , I wasn't here for these particular events, but recently there was a kid who was screaming and yelling and being generally obnoxious in the voice chat, and someone had started a votemute. The votemute failed and an admin had this to say:

What's the difference between the above situation and someone who micspams? Arguably there's nothing that separates the two aside from the content being played over the microphone, just use !ignore to mute the player playing music over the VC just like you would do so to mute an annoying kid screaming over VC. Alternatively you can even use the built in mute function in TF2 to mute these problem players yourself as well, though doing it this way prevents you from seeing their chat messages. This leads into my next point:

Number 2, users are able to votesilence. If it gets to a point where enough users are irritated, players have the ability to call a votesilence on a user for 30 minutes if the vote passes. Now ultimately doing this is pretty worthless when you have access to !ignore and the mute button, but it's still very much a valid option if a majority of players do not like what is being played, or if a particular user is crossing boundaries or being a nuisance.

Now I know what you might say next: "But Arcala, you only play on surf servers, you don't understand how that could affect servers like Payload or Casual where users need to be able to hear each other to coordinate pushes and call out spies!" That's a very valid point to bring up, but I would have to refer you back to my first paragraph: Ultimately you have your own power to mute these people, you don't have to listen to them if you don't want to. Skial and TF2 gives you the tools to curate your own playing experience. Let's talk about implementation for a moment, shall we? Despite everything I've talked about you may still be hesitant to allow micspamming on more serious servers like Casual and Payload, or even on something less serious like the Trade servers as micspamming can prevent people actively trying to set prices and advertise their wares. I also know that allowing exceptions to rules can be messy and a slippery slope if handled incorrectly, but I'd like to suggest making exceptions for servers where the feel of the game is already silly and fairly easy going. Servers that come to mind that are a great example of this are Zombie Escape, Death Run, Freak Fortress, Idle Trade, High Tower, 2Fort, and my favorite and home server: Surf.

In conclusion, I understand that micspamming isn't for everyone, but every user has the capability to curate their own player experience, whether that be through using !ignore, using the mute button that TF2 comes with natively, or votesilencing someone that the whole server disagrees with. Even if you don't allow micspamming on all servers, just a few, player retention should rise and the amount of reports admins need to respond to should fall, theoretically. I hope that I made a compelling argument for the inclusion of micspamming in Skial servers, and if not I hope that this was at least a decent read even if it may have been slightly rambly.

Regards,
Arcala
+1 we need more fun in these servers quit being party poopers. !ignore exists
 

TheRealMr.Purple

Notably Dangerous Demo-Knight
Contributor
-1 hell no im not trying to hear people screaming or playing loud soundboards in my ear plus !ignore is also helpful but I'm not about to type in their name while fighting someone (laziness moment). For example, hearing Ishowspeed screaming into my headphones for almost 5 minutes, I probably know 75% of a skial 2fort server or ze server doesn't want that here even though !ignore command exists but that's why !report exists though because like I said " I probably know 75% of a skial 2fort server or ze server doesn't want that here" and they don't wanna hear it for good.
 

nil.

Mildly Menacing Medic
+1 we need more fun in these servers quit being party poopers. !ignore exists
Then go to a different server that approves mic spamming, I know there's plenty. And just because !ignore exist doesn't mean it should be allowable for people to mic spam, hence why you get the mute/gag so you learn from your consequences that you are being an nuisance to other gamers who wants to play & reenact to players in servers
 

Praetorian

Wicked Nasty Engineer
Contributor
No surprise the subject of micspam has gained a whole lotta a traction here. While some if not most say if I don't like what a player is airing over allchat, I can just !ignore and/or !mute. While that is a solution, I tend to avoid that because I want to be able to capture "factual evidence" of any player that wishes to express their thought/opinion of behavior that is unacceptable in accordance to the established server rules. This "micspam" is someone's idea of re-interpreting its permissibility. I think this matter is brought up because certain players got caught. IE . music, constant erractic soundbytes and even vulgar inappropriate langauge. If "micspam" is opened up, your're asking for this be de-regulated and it becomes a free for all at the expense of having "fun" while annoying others while trying to play the game. While your opinion/suggestion is valued there has to be "reasonableness" for all of us who want play tf2. These community servers are meant to be enjoyable for everyone. In the meantime, I'll keep doing my !reports and that includes those who do "micspam" that is deemed to be unreasonable and the mods can decide your outcome.
 

Arcala

Mildly Menacing Medic
Contributor
So you bring up "you can just use !ignore." OK i'll counter it by saying "why can't you follow the rules?"
Despite the suggestion being declined I feel the need to post this reply:

You and anyone else who says "Why can't you follow the rules?" or "Just go to a different server" are missing the point. I still plan on following the rules regardless if this gets accepted or not. This forum is for suggestions, to start discussions about potential changes that can be made to the server, regardless if they are as small as updating a map to the latest version or changing rules to allow micspam. These forums are not a place for bad faith arguments to be made, even if you extremely dislike what the suggestion is. If you have nothing constructive to add to a topic, but still dislike it, post your -1, downvote it, and leave. It is not needed for you to post a snarky response and that kind of conduct is childish and unwarranted.
 
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Friendly Killer

Gore-Spattered Heavy
Contributor
Despite the suggestion being declined I feel the need to post this reply:

You and anyone else who says "Why can't you follow the rules?" or "Just go to a different server" are missing the point. I still plan on following the rules regardless if this gets accepted or not. This forum is for suggestions, to start discussions about potential changes that can be made to the server, regardless if they are as small as updating a map to the latest version or changing rules to allow micspam. These forums are not a place for bad faith arguments to be made, even if you extremely dislike what the suggestion is. If you have nothing constructive to add to a topic, but still dislike it, post your -1, downvote it, and leave. It is not needed for you to post a snarky response and that kind of conduct is childish and unwarranted.
I was responding to those ones who said just use !ignore. This was no bad faith argument, or snarky response. You posted a suggestion and I responded to it and the other that responded. The typical response I get in game is along the lines of "rules are meant to be broken" or "rules are for fools" etc. So excuse me if I ask an honest question.
 

Arcala

Mildly Menacing Medic
Contributor
I was responding to those ones who said just use !ignore. This was no bad faith argument, or snarky response. You posted a suggestion and I responded to it and the other that responded. The typical response I get in game is along the lines of "rules are meant to be broken" or "rules are for fools" etc. So excuse me if I ask an honest question.
I feel like you still aren't getting it. Using !ignore or muting the player is the point. Seminal Inhalation made the argument already:

Context: Freens asked "What's the point of !ignore?"

Seminal Inhalation's Response:
For people you don't want to hear. IE: Kids you don't wanna listen to, people you just plain don't like, maybe you just don't want to hear VC at all from anybody. It also only works per-session, so if you or they leave and come back they are no longer !ignored

If you don't want to hear someone, !ignore them. The same should be true for micspamming. Take away the fact that if you micspam right now you'd be breaking the rules, whats the difference between what Seminal Inhalation said and micspam? I'd argue nothing as they are all the same issue at their core with the same solution.
 

Friendly Killer

Gore-Spattered Heavy
Contributor
For me the point of mute is to mute annoying voices. You want to micspam so you join a skial server so you can force everyone who does not to hear shitty micspam to mute you. I play skial so I dont have to do that. Other servers have sometimes 6 players micspamming at the same time. Stupid as fuck this mute all of them. Not to mention story times, songs with the nword and outright racist songs. And yes I know about !ingore all.
All I was doing was responding to your suggestion.
 

Oosik

Notably Dangerous Demo-Knight
Contributor
-1

A relic of the past, it's the same argument as sprays, can they be harmless? Yea, Will they? Depends on the person spamming. Besides if I wanna listen to music I'll just open up my browser. Already bad enough people who don't mic spam can be annoying.

Also looking through your post history I wish I could vote twice.

Worse case scenario just make your own server lol.
 

Hiiglane

Notably Dangerous Demo-Knight
Micspam is annoying and I shouldn't have to go out of my way to curate my experience because of someone else being inconvenient on purpose. You don't micspam unless you want attention for it, and that's not always meant in a bad way, but too much of this concepts foundation is on getting attention rather than any actual reason. Nobody likes soundboards and or music being played without their consent. Even when I do enjoy whatever is being played via micspam, it's very common that the next thing they play is not something I want to listen to, or quickly overstays its welcome. Thus once again becoming annoying and not worth existing. I think it should be against rules, but the punishment shouldn't be too harsh because you are correct that there are multiple quick solutions to dealing with micspam. It's just, it shouldn't be a thing people are freely allowed to do, it's very aggravating and lacks any real value to anyone other than the spammer.

When it comes to matters of muting someone because they are annoying, there's a key difference in that being up to perception. Some people are just squeakers and can't really help having a voice that destroys your fucking ears, and I don't think there should be consequences for just sounding annoying. That or some people don't realize the way they talk is annoying.
 

BadmanoftheBrine

Banned
Contributor
I don't even remember if my micspam suggestions were marked declined, god damn, what a good ending.

Back to actually listening to the rules, then
 

mr enderman 22

Notably Dangerous Demo-Knight
Yes, I'm aware that this is controversial to post, and I'm sure it won't get any traction amongst Skial admins but here goes anyway!

I believe there is no reason for micspamming or using a soundboard to be punishable by muting and gagging, and here's a couple reasons why:

Number 1, TF2 has a built in mute function, and Skial Servers have the !ignore command. Players on the Skial servers already have ability to mute and gag people that they don't want to hear from without needing to report these players and add extra work onto the admins. This is something that is already being preached by the admins. This is an example that has been told to me , I wasn't here for these particular events, but recently there was a kid who was screaming and yelling and being generally obnoxious in the voice chat, and someone had started a votemute. The votemute failed and an admin had this to say:

What's the difference between the above situation and someone who micspams? Arguably there's nothing that separates the two aside from the content being played over the microphone, just use !ignore to mute the player playing music over the VC just like you would do so to mute an annoying kid screaming over VC. Alternatively you can even use the built in mute function in TF2 to mute these problem players yourself as well, though doing it this way prevents you from seeing their chat messages. This leads into my next point:

Number 2, users are able to votesilence. If it gets to a point where enough users are irritated, players have the ability to call a votesilence on a user for 30 minutes if the vote passes. Now ultimately doing this is pretty worthless when you have access to !ignore and the mute button, but it's still very much a valid option if a majority of players do not like what is being played, or if a particular user is crossing boundaries or being a nuisance.

Now I know what you might say next: "But Arcala, you only play on surf servers, you don't understand how that could affect servers like Payload or Casual where users need to be able to hear each other to coordinate pushes and call out spies!" That's a very valid point to bring up, but I would have to refer you back to my first paragraph: Ultimately you have your own power to mute these people, you don't have to listen to them if you don't want to. Skial and TF2 gives you the tools to curate your own playing experience. Let's talk about implementation for a moment, shall we? Despite everything I've talked about you may still be hesitant to allow micspamming on more serious servers like Casual and Payload, or even on something less serious like the Trade servers as micspamming can prevent people actively trying to set prices and advertise their wares. I also know that allowing exceptions to rules can be messy and a slippery slope if handled incorrectly, but I'd like to suggest making exceptions for servers where the feel of the game is already silly and fairly easy going. Servers that come to mind that are a great example of this are Zombie Escape, Death Run, Freak Fortress, Idle Trade, High Tower, 2Fort, and my favorite and home server: Surf.

In conclusion, I understand that micspamming isn't for everyone, but every user has the capability to curate their own player experience, whether that be through using !ignore, using the mute button that TF2 comes with natively, or votesilencing someone that the whole server disagrees with. Even if you don't allow micspamming on all servers, just a few, player retention should rise and the amount of reports admins need to respond to should fall, theoretically. I hope that I made a compelling argument for the inclusion of micspamming in Skial servers, and if not I hope that this was at least a decent read even if it may have been slightly rambly.

Regards,
Arcala
your a literal clown -1
 
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