Adding a "toxicity" rule to the servers

[BadmanoftheBrine]

Gonna throw in my piece as well, as retarded as my thread was, it did help to prove botty's point. I believe, before it was found by the thread, that it achieved about 10 points within the first half hour? Then obviously people stood up for skial, but yeah, I can kinda attest now to what hes trying to point out. A lot of people dislike skial on reddit it seems, but thankfully (other than like one convo between gala and someone who couldnt stand him, and myself and botty), most of the comments werent too negative. Most of them believed thay toxicity was a problem, but not specifically what theyve experienced, just on other servers. So it was a half and half yes. "Yes, control the toxicity, but be aware its everywhere"

 

[Bottiger]

We are not talking about your reddit thread anymore.

Our regulars still think we don't have a problem with reddit because they already know the truth about our servers. They aren't aware of a constant and persistent stream of anti-skial comments on reddit and youtube. All they see is that our servers still have players in it so they think there's nothing to worry about, nothing to change.

It's kind of like if we had a game up in the Steam store and we were getting review bombed 1 star ratings every week while other games aren't having this issue. This is not something that can be ignored.

 

[BadmanoftheBrine]

Well if regulars cant be of any help, Ill have to just stay out of this.

Cant really say why for certain so many people hate skial on reddit other than theyre likely banned for stupid things, and are just adding to a growing number of incompetants. The more popular etc etc

Do what you have to do on reddit, based on what Ive received on there, I think theres a lot of people angry at your mods. "Mods bad =server bad", but thats more personal and petty than anything. I get what youre going for, but I dont think you can do much other than just put the information out there, and hope the opposite of a reddit regular sees it, get that somethings up with negative comments, and gives some unbiased feedback

 

[Maddo]

Either skial servers are toxic or they're not, I don't think for one minute they are any different from any other server.
Changing the rules listed will not alter peoples behaviour on the servers.
Assholes will still come and go, I mean, it says no racism in the rules, but people get warnings for it all the time, it doesn't stop it.
If you think uncle danes fanboys are going to stop calling skial shit because you have another rule added, you're going to be dissapointed.
I perceive more complaints about the intolerance of admins than the toxicity of skial when compared to other servers in reddit mentions, but you seem to ignore this point.
There are a LOT of people banned from skial, it only takes a very small percentage of these to say how toxic skial is to make you think there is a problem above the norm. (also note: none of them define what this toxic behaviour actually is)

There is no answer to the original question, as it was asked in order to manage reddits perception of skial, rather than solving a problem coming from within.
If there is someone truly toxic - ban them, if you have to have a debate as to whether they have crossed a line, then they're not toxic enough to ban. seems pretty simple to me, you don't need a rule to get rid of evil people.

 

[Bottiger]

If you think uncle danes fanboys are going to stop calling skial shit because you have another rule added, you're going to be dissapointed.

I know it isn't practical to get rid of all complaints, but this will be 1 less thing people can argue about until people start to realize there's absolutely no basis for their complaints.

And let's be honest here, we don't have any rules against toxicity while other servers do. It would be a stretch to say they aren't any different from any other server.

If there is someone truly toxic - ban them, if you have to have a debate as to whether they have crossed a line, then they're not toxic enough to ban. seems pretty simple to me, you don't need a rule to get rid of evil people.

Why not? As you can see, Gala already banned someone for being toxic, and then some people here complained he was abusing because it wasn't listed in the rules.

 

[Seminal Inhalation]

And let's be honest here, we don't have any rules against toxicity while other servers do. It would be a stretch to say they aren't any different from any other server.

Firepowered has a no toxicity rule. Every time I go on, there's always some dude on voice chat being racist with everybody laughing along with them. Certain admins there will kick or even ban you for things they just personally do not like (one ex-admin was notorious for permanently banning people for asking them "how was camping". Context behind the quote isn't even bad or offensive in any way either.) When they aren't talking about racist stuff they're either shit-talking someone or talking about anti-lgbt stuff. They've been around for a long time too just like skial.

 

[Bottiger]

Firepowered has a no toxicity rule. Every time I go on, there's always some dude on voice chat being racist with everybody laughing along with them. Certain admins there will kick or even ban you for things they just personally do not like (one ex-admin was notorious for permanently banning people for asking them "how was camping". Context behind the quote isn't even bad or offensive in any way either.) When they aren't talking about racist stuff they're either shit-talking someone or talking about anti-lgbt stuff. They've been around for a long time too just like skial.

There's a big difference between being able to catch every rule breaker and not having a rule at all.

If firepowered is not enforcing their rules, that's on them.

If people complain about toxicity here, we really don't have much to refute them with except our own personal anecdotes. If we had a rule against it, we'd have a much better argument. We have rules against racism, and as a result, there are rarely any hecklers using that to criticize us.

 

[Seminal Inhalation]

There's a big difference between being able to catch every rule breaker and not having a rule at all.

If firepowered is not enforcing their rules, that's on them.

If people complain about toxicity here, we really don't have much to refute them with except our own personal anecdotes. If we had a rule against it, we'd have a much better argument. We have rules against racism, and as a result, there are rarely any hecklers using that to criticize us.

The point was: The only thing the "no toxicity" rule accomplished was allowing admins essentially free reign to ban or mute anyone for any reason they see fit and more people thought of the place as a toxic environment, both being the exact opposite of what you want. It gave the server more of a negative reputation as it gave staff justification for any ban or mute they dished out which made more and more people talked about how toxic the server and staff were. No rule-breaking or trash talking was curbed by adding a no toxicity rule. In fact, it ramped UP since admins were banning and muting people much more frequently.

 

[Maddo]

Why not? As you can see, Gala already banned someone for being toxic, and then some people here complained he was abusing because it wasn't listed in the rules.

I'm not familiar with what happened in this case, but what where the actual actions this person was doing that made it cross the line into bansville?
Also how did that end? did the person get unbanned, or is there now 1 less asshole on the servers?

 

[Jermaphobe]

I'm not familiar with what happened in this case, but what where the actual actions this person was doing that made it cross the line into bansville?
Also how did that end? did the person get unbanned, or is there now 1 less asshole on the servers?

https://www.skial.com/threads/kathl...d-muted-on-every-community-server-ever.98362/
Bottiger's 24/7 Idle Trade 02/08/2022 - 02:20:23 AM Kathleen okay gay boy
Bottiger's 24/7 Idle Trade 02/07/2022 - 11:23:22 PM Kathleen magnet*
Bottiger's 24/7 Idle Trade 02/07/2022 - 11:23:18 PM Kathleen like a magne to them
Bottiger's 24/7 Idle Trade 02/07/2022 - 11:23:09 PM Kathleen i find a lot of people on the spectrum like it
Bottiger's 24/7 Idle Trade 02/07/2022 - 02:51:58 AM Kathleen you are 14 i will kill you and skin you alive
Bottiger's 24/7 Idle Trade 02/07/2022 - 02:50:37 AM Kathleen i will fucking skin you and eat your meat raw
Bottiger's 24/7 Idle Trade 02/07/2022 - 02:49:59 AM Kathleen are you mentally deficiant?
Bottiger's 24/7 Idle Trade 02/07/2022 - 02:49:30 AM Kathleen do you touch kids?
Bottiger's 24/7 Idle Trade 02/07/2022 - 02:49:22 AM Kathleen how is that a womans name?
Bottiger's 24/7 Idle Trade 02/08/2022 - 02:15:51 AM Kathleen I would skin you alive
Bottiger's 24/7 Idle Trade 02/08/2022 - 02:13:12 AM Kathleen I will fucking skin you alive
Bottiger's 24/7 Idle Trade 02/08/2022 - 02:06:12 AM Kathleen I will boil you alive? would you like to feel your skin slide off>
Bottiger's 24/7 Idle Trade 02/08/2022 - 02:05:40 AM Kathleen inqy kitty i will skin you alive
Bottiger's 24/7 Idle Trade 02/08/2022 - 02:04:12 AM Kathleen I will skin you alive
Bottiger's 24/7 Idle Trade 02/07/2022 - 02:31:44 AM Kathleen the police wont stop me 🙂
Bottiger's 24/7 Idle Trade 02/07/2022 - 02:31:34 AM Kathleen i hope so 🙂
Bottiger's 24/7 Idle Trade 02/07/2022 - 02:31:30 AM Kathleen Do you own a gun?
Bottiger's 24/7 Idle Trade 02/07/2022 - 02:31:11 AM Kathleen i will bathe in your blood
Bottiger's 24/7 Idle Trade 02/07/2022 - 02:31:07 AM Kathleen i will kill you in real life
Bottiger's 24/7 Idle Trade 02/06/2022 - 08:58:23 PM Kathleen god will ignore your cries during the rapture
Bottiger's 24/7 Idle Trade 02/06/2022 - 08:38:03 PM Kathleen ill skin you alive

Silenced for 3 days and now spends his time slandering Skial on reddit and undoubtedly other obscure places because he can and can't stand being muted

 

[Bottiger]

The point was: The only thing the "no toxicity" rule accomplished was allowing admins essentially free reign to ban or mute anyone for any reason they see fit and more people thought of the place as a toxic environment, both being the exact opposite of what you want.

That's their fault for not enforcing their own rules though.

 

[Maddo]

https://www.skial.com/threads/kathl...d-muted-on-every-community-server-ever.98362/
Bottiger's 24/7 Idle Trade 02/08/2022 - 02:20:23 AM Kathleen okay gay boy
Bottiger's 24/7 Idle Trade 02/07/2022 - 11:23:22 PM Kathleen magnet*
Bottiger's 24/7 Idle Trade 02/07/2022 - 11:23:18 PM Kathleen like a magne to them
Bottiger's 24/7 Idle Trade 02/07/2022 - 11:23:09 PM Kathleen i find a lot of people on the spectrum like it
Bottiger's 24/7 Idle Trade 02/07/2022 - 02:51:58 AM Kathleen you are 14 i will kill you and skin you alive
Bottiger's 24/7 Idle Trade 02/07/2022 - 02:50:37 AM Kathleen i will fucking skin you and eat your meat raw
Bottiger's 24/7 Idle Trade 02/07/2022 - 02:49:59 AM Kathleen are you mentally deficiant?
Bottiger's 24/7 Idle Trade 02/07/2022 - 02:49:30 AM Kathleen do you touch kids?
Bottiger's 24/7 Idle Trade 02/07/2022 - 02:49:22 AM Kathleen how is that a womans name?
Bottiger's 24/7 Idle Trade 02/08/2022 - 02:15:51 AM Kathleen I would skin you alive
Bottiger's 24/7 Idle Trade 02/08/2022 - 02:13:12 AM Kathleen I will fucking skin you alive
Bottiger's 24/7 Idle Trade 02/08/2022 - 02:06:12 AM Kathleen I will boil you alive? would you like to feel your skin slide off>
Bottiger's 24/7 Idle Trade 02/08/2022 - 02:05:40 AM Kathleen inqy kitty i will skin you alive
Bottiger's 24/7 Idle Trade 02/08/2022 - 02:04:12 AM Kathleen I will skin you alive
Bottiger's 24/7 Idle Trade 02/07/2022 - 02:31:44 AM Kathleen the police wont stop me 🙂
Bottiger's 24/7 Idle Trade 02/07/2022 - 02:31:34 AM Kathleen i hope so 🙂
Bottiger's 24/7 Idle Trade 02/07/2022 - 02:31:30 AM Kathleen Do you own a gun?
Bottiger's 24/7 Idle Trade 02/07/2022 - 02:31:11 AM Kathleen i will bathe in your blood
Bottiger's 24/7 Idle Trade 02/07/2022 - 02:31:07 AM Kathleen i will kill you in real life
Bottiger's 24/7 Idle Trade 02/06/2022 - 08:58:23 PM Kathleen god will ignore your cries during the rapture
Bottiger's 24/7 Idle Trade 02/06/2022 - 08:38:03 PM Kathleen ill skin you alive

Silenced for 3 days and now spends his time slandering Skial on reddit and undoubtedly other obscure places because he can and can't stand being muted

So that tells me that threats to kill and torture are toxic in the eyes of admin. - there's something to add to the rules?
It also tells me my supposition is probably right - those who get banned for toxicity will go to places like reddit and slate the admin or skial in general, so it won't solve the "negative press" issue.

 

[brd]

Personally, I like the idea of at least a little moderation towards toxicity in the servers. At times, there can just be a group of friends absolutely terrorizing certain individual(s) in the server and it can get out of control. At least from what I've experiences myself, and what I've seen-- it's not something that's just isolated to one person that comes in, spams the chat, and leaves. It's more now groups of people coming in, attempting to kick people simply for either talking or doing something in game.

As someone with a feminine voice, I get it a lot and gotten used to it. I don't care, but I hate to have to expose the entire server to people ranting and raving about the same thing ruining what fun the server was having simply because I or someone else talked that these individuals didn't want to hear. Last night in particular, I was making call-outs and 3 individuals in the server immediately started calling out slurs. All that of course is covered under your current rules when it comes to sexism, racism, etc. but a blanket toxicity rule would make it easier to confront it.

I can understand the argument that those that come in and get muted/silenced or banned will make posts on other sites claiming that Skial banned them for x reason or no reason, but I think in the end that can be ignored. There's no way to stop these people from posting stuff like that on other sites either way. It's happening regardless of whether a toxicity rule would be in place. Everybody will find something to complain about. It's worth just ignoring and moving on with development rather than letting them get to you.

That's all my opinion of course. I understand the argument against toxicity as it's so hard to find a hardline when it comes to defining it. I think a general rule against it would be nice, and help admins find a better way to mute/silence people in the server that are incredibly disrupting without feeling like they're going to get backlash for doing it.

 

[Defibyoulater]

I ain't suggesting the idea. There's no way it could even be implemented now, especially this late in the game. If it was there would probably a different set of problems to deal with. Probably the last time this will be able to be brought up, though

I think things would be better/easier without any toxicity/discrimination rules. (When it breaches a law is when action should be taken: Dox, DDOS, irl stalking). Let players handle their feuds. It should be considered how often players become hardened and shake off the worst of comments, or when a server comes together to shut down toxic players.

 

[Bottiger]

I get the idea that we have a lot of players and it's inevitable that some people are going to make up random bullshit about us.

But if you look at the evidence I've supplied, it is happening almost every day, drowning out any positive mentions about us. In a normal situation you'd have an equal number of people arguing for the other side, but the number of people arguing for our side of the story is like 10%.

It's like if we had a game on steam and people were review bombing it by giving it 1s. Do you think that wouldn't do anything and that we should just ignore it?

 

[brd]

I'll be honest, I think the negative press comes mainly when you're searching for it. I've played Skial off and on for years but mainly played casual. I only started really playing more frequently relatively recently. I'd never ram into any negative press/reviews/comments about Skial on ANY media despite being on nearly everything.

The most I've seen out in the wild while not searching for anything is a few people on reddit bitching about a ban they received x amount if time ago.

On the other hand, I do see a lot of people complaining about nonsense when you DO look up Skial. That's likely what you're talking about. I just think that comes with the game of having a server. You'll see the same issue occur with UT servers. But I do understand how bad it looks for the server when there's so much of that on your first glance.

Personally I believe that the rule being added won't change anything for the negative press, personally. I understand the sentiment to keep it on the decline though. I wouldnt know how to counteract that.

Since I'm newer to the server by a year or so, how long has it been since there's been some kind of survey asking how the server feels about certain rules, etc? Perhaps it would be a good time to come out with a survey with questions about the likability and including a question about the new rule and whether the surveyed people would like it added or not? Maybe what could change about the servers to better improve the reputation? Just an idea.

I'm typing this on my phone, sorry if I missed any ridiculous typos.

 

[Maddo]

I get the idea that we have a lot of players and it's inevitable that some people are going to make up random bullshit about us.

But if you look at the evidence I've supplied, it it happening almost every day, drowning out any positive mentions about us. In a normal situation you'd have an equal number of people arguing for the other side, but the number of people arguing for our side of the story is like 10%.

Could it just be that Skial players are less likely to use reddit?

It's like if we had a game on steam and people were review bombing it by giving it 1s. Do you think that wouldn't do anything and that we should just ignore it?

Not quite the same thing, people aren't going to scroll through a years worth of r/tf2 to get a overview of which server they should play on.

 

[JayDee]

Not quite the same thing, people aren't going to scroll through a years worth of r/tf2 to get a overview of which server they should play on.

youd be suprised

 

[Maddo]

youd be suprised

I think the only people scrolling through like that are those reading this thread and that's just to see how bad things really are.

 

[Bottiger]

Could it just be that Skial players are less likely to use reddit?

Not quite the same thing, people aren't going to scroll through a years worth of r/tf2 to get a overview of which server they should play on.

Why are our players less likely to use reddit? I don't see any logical explanation for that.

And people don't need to scroll through a years worth of /r/tf2. They just need to search "skial" in youtube or look at /r/tf2 posts in the past week.

You'll see the same issue occur with UT servers.

Except they get like 20 positive comments for every 1 negative one. And all the positive ones get a large number of upvotes.