Approved Fixing 24/7 Turbine Population Issue To Keep Server Healthy And Active

[Grigs]

Making this thread in hopes to remove the autoscramble feature on 24/7 Turbine Server as it kills the server immediatly.
Most of the regulars that play on that server can say that the population issue is because of the autoscramble after you cap feature,
if that was to be removed so that the gameplay is constant fun like in every 24/7 2fort map would make a drastic change to the server health.
Obviously the issue arises when theres a team constantly stomping/spawn camping the other. We can fix the votescramble feature and with skials
ratios it will more than likely pass. This post is made in hopes that we can have 24/7 Turbine populated at all times so many players can enjoy it at all hours of the day.

Pls thumbs up and comment<3

 

[NightWolf]

No matter what the threshold is.
The end result is the same every time.
The teams do not scramble even if a scramble occurs.
There'll be the same stack accompanied with some cry and whine.

You should remove all kinds of scrambles from turbine.
They only frustrate and further incite the players.

Then, the issue is more the swap team. But every of them are donator, as i know.

 

[The Dominus]

As a long-time Skial regular who's taken an extended break these past few months, with no plans to return to TF2, I think I can give a balanced opinion on this matter.

Turbine, especially after becoming a 64 player server, is dominated by whichever team controls mid. There is no denying the strategical and environmental advantage there is to having mid control, and the unpleasant struggle of being on the losing team.

I've never been a fan of votescramble on any server. It disrupts the flow of gameplay. Call it stacking, call it playing with friends... no matter what it is, it doesn't disrupt groups, which are the crux of the issue here, as the attracting factor is the communal activity of playing on the same server. TF2 is a social game, it comes with the territory. Votescrambling is a pointless countermeasure - if it passes, the problem isn't solved, and if it doesn't pass, the problem still isn't solved.

Before the changes arose from this thread, votescramble was non-functional on the server. Teams were rewarded with a scramble only if the cap completion limit was achieved. This would encourage one of two things vs dominant teams: coordinated motivation to push out, or spies/bonk scouts edge capping the intel. It required actual effort (although with the latter example, not very skillful) instead of just sitting in spawn calling for a votescramble every 10 minutes until it passes. Now with no automatic scramble, it becomes exceedingly easy to colonize the intel room and just spam cap on cooldown. What beforehand was an adventurous hold by the forward team has become a near impossible spawntrap to escape.

I would propose a reversion to previous settings. The server was healthy and fine to play on as it was, and we should go back to it. Some form of scramble is necessary to prevent brutally stagnant and unhealthy lobbies, and the way out should require at least some dedication.

And before anyone points to me and says I'm part of the problem - I was aware of this thread when it was created and was asked to participate. I specifically remained neutral on it because 1. it replaces a previous problem with an arguably worse problem (which is what we have now) and 2. I honestly didn't think it could pass. Someone's obviously going to point out how I'm friends with everyone on different sides of this situation and claim some form of bias, but I would implore you to consider that friendship doesn't necessarily equate to affiliation. I have screenshots and footage to showcase my experiences on both sides of the equation, on the dominant team and on the non-dominant team, with varying levels of success.

Part of the charm and appeal I've always felt towards TF2 honestly is in fact the lack of updates. The consistency and lack of change makes it a familiar place. So again, I'd like to propose that we go back to how it was.

 

[NightWolf]

As a long-time Skial regular who's taken an extended break these past few months, with no plans to return to TF2, I think I can give a balanced opinion on this matter.

Turbine, especially after becoming a 64 player server, is dominated by whichever team controls mid. There is no denying the strategical and environmental advantage there is to having mid control, and the unpleasant struggle of being on the losing team.

I've never been a fan of votescramble on any server. It disrupts the flow of gameplay. Call it stacking, call it playing with friends... no matter what it is, it doesn't disrupt groups, which are the crux of the issue here, as the attracting factor is the communal activity of playing on the same server. TF2 is a social game, it comes with the territory. Votescrambling is a pointless countermeasure - if it passes, the problem isn't solved, and if it doesn't pass, the problem still isn't solved.

Before the changes arose from this thread, votescramble was non-functional on the server. Teams were rewarded with a scramble only if the cap completion limit was achieved. This would encourage one of two things vs dominant teams: coordinated motivation to push out, or spies/bonk scouts edge capping the intel. It required actual effort (although with the latter example, not very skillful) instead of just sitting in spawn calling for a votescramble every 10 minutes until it passes. Now with no automatic scramble, it becomes exceedingly easy to colonize the intel room and just spam cap on cooldown. What beforehand was an adventurous hold by the forward team has become a near impossible spawntrap to escape.

I would propose a reversion to previous settings. The server was healthy and fine to play on as it was, and we should go back to it. Some form of scramble is necessary to prevent brutally stagnant and unhealthy lobbies, and the way out should require at least some dedication.

And before anyone points to me and says I'm part of the problem - I was aware of this thread when it was created and was asked to participate. I specifically remained neutral on it because 1. it replaces a previous problem with an arguably worse problem (which is what we have now) and 2. I honestly didn't think it could pass. Someone's obviously going to point out how I'm friends with everyone on different sides of this situation and claim some form of bias, but I would implore you to consider that friendship doesn't necessarily equate to affiliation. I have screenshots and footage to showcase my experiences on both sides of the equation, on the dominant team and on the non-dominant team, with varying levels of success.

Part of the charm and appeal I've always felt towards TF2 honestly is in fact the lack of updates. The consistency and lack of change makes it a familiar place. So again, I'd like to propose that we go back to how it was.

Amen.

 

[Bottiger]

The teams do not scramble even if a scramble occurs.

This doesn't make any sense. They do scramble. If people are trying to rejoin the same team again, sure they will eventually do that. But it takes them a lot of time to do so.

Also donators are not immune to scramble, they are only immune to autobalance (when 1 side has fewer people).

I don't understand how going back to the old settings is going to change anything based on the arguments here. The teams will still be "stacked" if they hold off on capping the intel so they can continue to spawn camp.

 

[The Dominus]

This doesn't make any sense. They do scramble. If people are trying to rejoin the same team again, sure they will eventually do that. But it takes them a lot of time to do so.

Also donators are not immune to scramble, they are only immune to autobalance (when 1 side has fewer people).

I don't understand how going back to the old settings is going to change anything based on the arguments here. The teams will still be "stacked" if they hold off on capping the intel so they can continue to spawn camp.

How does it take them a lot of time? You literally just go into spectator and force swap. There's a way to do this instantly via typing swap in console even if you're on the team with less players.

In a lot of these stacked team situations I was the one pushing intel and capping the objective. Tons of solo players like playing the objective as well. The only way on the old rules to obstruct that from happening is to hold the briefcase hostage, which should be considered a griefing offense.

The server was active and healthy as it was before. Respectfully Bottiger, you don't play on turbine so I'd like to redirect you back to the server population graph that Foxy shared. From a point of view of your ownership, the decision, in my opinion, should be pretty obvious.

 

[thlaspi]

This doesn't make any sense. They do scramble. If people are trying to rejoin the same team again, sure they will eventually do that. But it takes them a lot of time to do so.

Also donators are not immune to scramble, they are only immune to autobalance (when 1 side has fewer people).

I don't understand how going back to the old settings is going to change anything based on the arguments here. The teams will still be "stacked" if they hold off on capping the intel so they can continue to spawn camp.

Ok, technically teams do scramble! Of course they do, the mechanic works.

No shade to your scramble, it's alright.
And I know donators are not immune to it.

But the stack will then use /swap.
Like previously mentioned in this thread, the vast majority if not all of them are donators.
(mostly because of this reason, and autobalance immunity)

Any non-donator will wait to join their preferred team.
They will wait for however long it takes.
They will not play on the opposing (beaten) side.
They'll rather chill in spec or leave entirely
(only to come back later and join the team they want to be in)

I'm not making this up, I'm telling you how it was.
Anyone who played there long enough could corroborate.

If only this was a technical problem.
I would be much more hopeful then.

 

[Bottiger]

Respectfully Bottiger, you don't play on turbine so I'd like to redirect you back to the server population graph that Foxy shared. From a point of view of your ownership, the decision, in my opinion, should be pretty obvious.

I'm not arguing that there's something wrong with the server. My argument is that the problems you are describing aren't solved just by activating flag caps again. The goal should be to try to fix the real problem.

You also can't swap if the teams are too imbalanced and you are respawned instead of sitting outside the enemy spawn.

And also I have played thousands of hours on turbine.

 

[Tanaka You]

Crit on cap is a big source of the problem - it directly leads to spawn camping when the team with mid (and often, with a step into the enemy intel room) caps. Combined with no cap limit, the game gets either boring since there's no challenge (if your team has mid) or pointless (if you get splattered by crits from taking a step out of spawn). That's one of the bigger reasons why I've stopped coming to Turbine, even though I used to come for hours a day. Turbine is inherently a somewhat unfair map (given mid, and given the ability to swap teams with some dedication), but crits on cap turn it from frustrating to unplayable.

I wonder if both crit on cap usually being on and vote scrambles usually failing have a similar root cause - the team with mid usually has more experienced players, because experienced players who join the server know to wait to join the team with mid if they want to have a good time. The team without mid is more likely to have a few players with a bit less of a clue. For example, it wasn't uncommon for me to look at the scoreboard and recognize 20 of the 30 players on one team, and only 5 of the 30 players on the other team. And, experienced regulars are slightly more likely to be paying strong attention to the game, and doing what they can on a meta-level to gain an advantage. When I see vote scrambles failing, but only 60% of players voted, I sometimes suspect it's because of the handful of players (usually concentrated on one side) who are either afk, or have so few points they aren't really engaged in the game (or are playing "friendly").

Crit on cap wasn't an issue previously because caps were so uncommon - and if your team did manage to lock down the intel room, you'll shortly reach the cap limit and the map will reset.

The way things were previously, I didn't really see the intel being held for significant periods of time (compared to the length of a match). Sure, sometimes someone tries to hold it when on the last cap, but they'll usually die in a few minutes and someone else will grab it and cap. Such behavior isn't ideal but doesn't seem to be a limiting factor - nowhere close to the current problems, at least.

Either go back to resetting the map after 4 caps, or don't allow players to vote for crit on cap. Without crits, even if teams are stacked, those on defense have a pretty good chance of getting their intel room (and more) back after a few tries.

 

[Bottiger]

So all we have to do is remove crit on cap?

What about votescramble? Is it actually not passing, or 30 people really can't push out after the 3-5 team stackers get respawned all the way at the other side of the map?

 

[thlaspi]

So all we have to do is remove crit on cap?

What about votescramble? Is it actually not passing, or 30 people really can't push out after the 3-5 team stackers get respawned all the way at the other side of the map?

Where did you get that number? 3-5?
Oh lol, if only.

Btw, I wrote to you about this issue in October.
You are not the only staff member that had to hear my woes (I'm sorry).
I have some hours in turbine too (2k here on Skial, in EU/US/NY lol).
No need to mannsplain me how it works.
Wouldn't have spoken abt this if it didn't bother me quite a lot.

But well, it's nice to venture outside of those halls and corridors.
I'm quite happily away from my (former) comfort zone now.

 

[Grigs]

Yeah i agree crit on cap is beyond broken. Probably a good option to remove that option from turbine. Turbine is literally a deathmatch map its supposed to be hectic 24/7. Its always at a point where whoever has mid is dominating their spawns. But for however long i've played turbine theres players that actually try and play the game and push mid. And there's the afk players just sitting in spawn spamming down the stairs or resupplying with short circuit. Obviously they arn't gonna make any progress. As far as "team stacking" obviously my friends and I all want to play on the same team, we all wanna hang out and have a fun time. You can't do anything about team stacking because friends are gonna want to play with friends, and players will want to join the winning team. Womp womp get over team stacking. As far as changes for turbine yeah i agree turn off crit on cap permanently.

 

[Bottiger]

Where did you get that number? 3-5?

There were 5 donators on just an hour ago. I'm not going to be checking the server every single day to see exactly how many donators there are.

No need to mannsplain me how it works.

I don't see where you get "mannsplain" from. I feel like this is what you are doing to me because you don't see me on the server so you assume I never played turbine or don't know how it works.

Just so you all know, I was against this change, being as I had lots of people complain to me before about turbine not having caps which is why it was different from 2fort. But I was getting tired of people complaining that I "never listen to the regs" so I changed it.

 

[BlissestRestt]

So this change appears to have killed turbine. The statistics below show a 2/3rds reduction in player count after this change. On turbine, You have a couple of collections of players that like to team stack, and most of them are in this thread supporting this change because they don't want to be auto scrambled off the stack. The stack has reportedly been holding the intel and spamming cap krits into respawn. This is obvious no fun for anyone else, so they aren't playing anymore.

A couple of you may know that I don't play turbine, I only play 2fort. What has happened is that the stacks have moved over there, and our player counts are starting to get lower too. Note that the reductions do not match in timeline. People stopped playing on turbine because of the stack, the stack moves over to 2fort, and theres now a reduction in 2fort players.

Multiple turbine players told me this change is the reason they stopped playing there.
So i think y'all should revert this change. I think that the admins that spoke up for this change also should update their priors. I don't think the change was suggested in good faith. The stacking players want less scrambles to stomp more.






https://stats.skial.com/#server/123

https://stats.skial.com/#server/16

Be less toxic and encourage team tactics in the *checks notes* team game, and none of this would ever even be a problem.

 

[thlaspi]

And there's the afk players just sitting in spawn spamming down the stairs or resupplying with short circuit.

womp womp you get over this, maybe?

It is a stack, even if it's a (rather large) group of friends.
Even while you were insufferable to others, you had fun doing it.

In this sad world, it's kinda nice to have friends. And fun.
If this is how you manage it, then yeah, good for you.

There were 5 donators on just an hour ago. I'm not going to be checking the server every single day to see exactly how many donators there are.


I don't see where you get "mannsplain" from. I feel like this is what you are doing to me because you don't see me on the server so you assume I never played turbine or don't know how it works.

Just so you all know, I was against this change, being as I had lots of people complain to me before about turbine not having caps which is why it was different from 2fort. But I was getting tired of people complaining that I "never listen to the regs" so I changed it.

Did I ask you to check for any current donators?
What diagnostic measure is that now?

I didn't assume anything of your playtime, turbine or otherwise. I believe you must have played this game quite a lot, and you really care for it.
Why else would you bother with all this nonsense, in the big 26?

Yeah, I didn't really want this change either. But I was tired of their whining too, that's why I lobbied it.
Things were already quite stagnant. A change would at least give them a nudge.
And fellas wanted their improved "server health" so bad.
So let them see the results for themselves.

 

[Grigs]

Also everyone welcome to the sad realization that there will be players better than you. There has been countless times where the enemy team has mid and we are able to push into it? Why is that? Because players will either choose to turtle in spawn with short circuits and sentry's. Or they will build ubers/banners/kritz and push into mid? People that are bad at the game should not have an opinion on balance changes. The players that actually play the game and try to win/push should because they know how to play the game? Why would anyone take an opinion of people that sit in spawn all day spamming huntsmen and short circuit going 14-300? Ive had countless times where the enemy team has pushed and taken over mid with ubers and phlogs. Also removing cap limit was the correct thing to do. People that have played turbine before the changes can 100% agree, after the last cap and scramble the server will DIE, there is no argument there. So like Bottiger said yes there has to be changes like removing crit on cap. But you all have to realize its a team morale issue, if you give up and turtle in spawn, you're gonna stay there.

 

[bunnicula]

Awoooo! I find it interesting that the same people complaining about being spawn camped and shit on are sitting in spawn watching their team die, instead of actually, yanno, doing something useful.

(Type in chat about being spawn camped > Use resources to push out of the spawn)

There have been many, many, times the "losing" team has pushed out and successfully taken mid back, and even spawn camped the former "winning" team themselves.

 

[thlaspi]

Awoooo! I find it interesting that the same people complaining about being spawn camped and shit on are sitting in spawn watching their team die, instead of actually, yanno, doing something useful.

(Type in chat about being spawn camped > Use resources to push out of the spawn)

There have been many, many, times the "losing" team has pushed out and successfully taken mid back, and even spawn camped the former "winning" team themselves.

Well, you are right about my contributions in these vids. They depict moments of defeat, not resolve.
I was quite resigned in December already.
And sure, there is not a lot I personally can do against any of you.
It very much is a skill issue.

This is not only about me tho lol
Tanaka already wrote about the team compositions.
We know that the other team can turn the game around, in theory.
And sometimes it happens, I've been there too.
But usually it's quite unattainable. The differences in coordination and skill are just too great.

This is the logical way this kinda conversation would have gone.
So I didn't try it earlier. Still, nice to see all of you here :P

 

[BlissestRestt]

Well, you are right about my contributions in these vids. They depict moments of defeat, not resolve.
I was quite resigned in December already.
And sure, there is not a lot I personally can do against any of you.
It very much is a skill issue.

This is not only about me tho lol
Tanaka already wrote about the team compositions.
We know that the other team can turn the game around, in theory.
And sometimes it happens, I've been there too.
But usually it's quite unattainable. The differences in coordination and skill are just too great.

This is the logical way this kinda conversation would have gone.
So I didn't try it earlier. Still, nice to see all of you here :P

So we've concluded, skill issue. Thank you for coming to someone else's TED talk, goodbye.

 

[thlaspi]

So we've concluded, skill issue. Thank you for coming to someone else's TED talk, goodbye.

Yeah, that's it :D

Oh wow, you da best. Here's one more message for you to react accordingly.

 

[raVen52]

- The idea of disabling is good, but perhaps it would be wiser to set a cap limit, like 4, for example.

3 is too low. 4 seems about right.

I can't believe I'm agreeing with nightwolf here but I think the game play would become much fairer with a cap/scramble turned back on but 3 is definitely too low. 4 or maybe even something a bit higher, like 6 and then leave the option to vote crits on cap.

At the bare min that would give the server about 5-10 mins of fair game play while the usual stackers re-stack the teams. I don't have a problem with stacking. What I have issue with is folk that wander in, have no idea what's going on, have no idea that they're up against a stacked team and then basically told to leave if they don't like it (I'd have to dig through the server chats but I'm too lazy but they're in there). Yes we could totally get on a private VC so that we can do ourselves a little pub stomping:

TURBINE+ | US ████

02/14/2026 - 08:26:49 PM

🔗Grigs

come vc voltra mommy

But I think most of the general wanders aren't going to be that coordinated and just want to sit-and-go and play some turbines w/o the worry of being pub stomped constantly.

just my 2¢.

im a bird bitch, weeeee.