Declined Class Limits
- Thread starter rodneyking
- Start date
I would definitely agree that too many heavies is a bad thing, but in virtually any TF2 team larger than 6 people a heavy is a valuable asset and in the hands of a skillful player a heavy is a terror to come up against as almost any class. I can't count the number of times I've gone on to a 24-person payload server to see the offense without a heavy, if there is one place you should always have at least one heavy it's on a payload map, but even on a cp or koth map a heavy serves as an integral part of a balanced team, bringing lots of health and dps, and a sandvich for the medic. In short, if you think that heavies are unsuitable for high-level play you should experience some more highlander comp play.
[edit] Oh yeah, and to get back on topic, I would love to see some class restrictions put into place on doublecross and some of the other servers. Most of the time teams manage to stay fairly balanced, but there are definitely occasions when a team has 5 or 6 of the same class and it just makes the game much less enjoyable for everybody.
If you want to be cynical at least read correctly. I've countered two of your arguments in this thread and both of them just flew past your head already. But obviously as the cool guy on the internet you are, you'll probably just shrug it off and call me a retard again.
And sure heavy is a great class if played correctly, it also rewards too much for nothing on pub level and on competetive level he sucks ass. That's why I consider him horribly designed.
Lord Killington
Legendary Skial King
pr1mus da scr1pt
Rage-Inducing Forum Troll
maybe i just have a knack for dealing with heavies (most people i play comp with will fart on heavies too), the odd self-proclaimed pro heavy (who will fight his right to the death that heavies take the most skill to play in TF2) i encounter in tf2lobby or MGE are just outright shit, so there's my experience with heavy.
i agree with Tomat that heavy is poorly designed, but my guess it that Valve intentionally put a mouthbreathing straight-forward class in TF2 in order not to alienate all the CoD kiddies. i've played heavy a few times in payload maps and i nearly feel asleep because how easy and boring it is. people who take pride in playing heavy will often boast that there's more to heavy than just shooting people, explaining complex strategies such as "jumping and revving out of a corner" and "knowing when to rev up", i just think that's kinda silly.
a new player will always do best with heavy (that or kamikaze pyro) because it's forgiving and easy to play, heavy shares ridicule because of this because it's portrayed as a class played by newbs exclusively, and whilst most noobs play heavy; there isn't much distinction from an average heavy, and a heavy who knows what he's doing (from my experience anyway).
Well, I know that I can take down a bad heavy as an engineer without a sentry, dispenser, or backup, but I also know some heavies that will almost always take me down, regardless of the situation. Personally I don't think they're any stronger or weaker than any other class in the game, I would agree that the learning curve is much shallower (at least at the beginning) for playing heavy and thus you get a lot of relatively unskilled people doing so. As far as strategies, yeah the jumping around corners or knowing when to rev up are relatively minor things imo most people who play heavy for any length of time know how to do that, the more important skills are knowing where your team is where the enemy is and coordinating with your team to put your firepower where it will do the most good, knowing when you can push and when you can't, honestly the skills that really matter are the same no matter which class you play. The rest is really up to personal preference, I enjoy rolling heavy sometimes, but I definitely don't want to play it all the time and that's the beauty of TF2, I don't have to :D.
-1 that feel when you join a server, there are 4 demos and all but one is demoknighting, and that last one is just too new to have the items for it.
;_; sometimes you need that 5th person on demo.
Er, also as far as the hoovy conversation goes, heavy mge is dumb and shows nothing of how good any heavy is.
Heavies are most effective short and mid range with clear danger zones for themselves in really close combat and from targets that are a mile away. A good hoovy needs to be able to use all dem edges and walls on a map to protect himself from sniper lines and to funnel targets too himself. A heavy's skill isn't so much related to how well he can play heavy, but rather how well he knows a map. (and also how well he can keep his medic alive)
;_; sometimes you need that 5th person on demo.
Er, also as far as the hoovy conversation goes, heavy mge is dumb and shows nothing of how good any heavy is.
Heavies are most effective short and mid range with clear danger zones for themselves in really close combat and from targets that are a mile away. A good hoovy needs to be able to use all dem edges and walls on a map to protect himself from sniper lines and to funnel targets too himself. A heavy's skill isn't so much related to how well he can play heavy, but rather how well he knows a map. (and also how well he can keep his medic alive)
Ozone
Server-Clearing Cynic
Every class is limited in some way, it's all about getting past that. With people like you I mean ignorant noobs. And if you would pick scout when I pick heavy I would fuck your shit up, I pick solly and you pick scout? your gonna get fucked even harder and if I play demo and you pick scout you're still gonna get fucked.
No, you didn't. read my reply again you dumbfuck.
You're obviously not reading at all, so why should I? Either you're not reading, or I'm psychic.
pr1mus da scr1pt
Rage-Inducing Forum Troll
heavy is limited by design, his 'potential' is obstructed by a terrible skillceiling against classes that actually require something more than a pulse to master. if you are going to call me an "ignorant noob" because i realize all classes aren't on the same curve on the skill-output chart, then you might just be projecting too hard.
besides, tomat did read your post; again, and still you resort to just insulting him for no good reason. that must be a running theme with you, aside from the jarring hypocrisy and uneducated opinions. you think you can take me as scout? it must be christmas 8)
Raccoon99
Epic Skial Regular
pr1mus da scr1pt
Rage-Inducing Forum Troll
two would be too little, i figure four to be a bit on the meager side as well (considering a lot of people want to play scout), but the fact that there are so many bad scouts that'll happily take the remaining slots doesn't really make it appetizing for me to suggest more scout slots.
Four scouts sounds best to me. Scouts have their uses, but most of the time they are just running around like headless chickens and do at most 500 damage if they just shoot at Saxton. The only way to do real damage as scout is by goomba jumping. Otherwise they feel more like support units built for distraction and health regeneration (Mad Milk).
Rick Santorum
Wicked Nasty Engineer
Ozone
Server-Clearing Cynic
Alright dumbfuck let me counter those "arguements" of yours then, which I had already countered before.
"If someone tries to kill them at long range, any heavy that knows how to dodge can easily neglect that damage."
Aim. Get some.
"True, but I think any semi-smart heavy is protective about the medic. If he sees a soldier rocket jumping at him, he'll shoot at the soldier. If he sees the stickies, he'll shoot at the stickies. And all this only requires one button. Well, any semi-smart heavy will of course use the walk-button as well, so make that two."
Here's what I said about the stickies: "Then there's the sticky traps. Use them well and the heavy-medic combo is gone." Use them WELL. Not like a total jackass.
The rocket jumping strategy is something that you need skill to pull off with a good result and it's not that hard to kill the medic with it, if you have skill that is, leaving your team with a good opportunity to take out the heavy. And a soldier who's high up in the air is hard for a heavy to kill at least for a while.
Oh, also, no offense but I rage quite servers that have class limits when i run into the limit. There's nothing like a 2 medic limit with a battle medic and a quickfix. or 4 engis running minis on defense. Or all the other horrible things that I want to help fix but can't because of class limits. UGH.
lol, I'd leave skial if there were class limits.
lol, I'd leave skial if there were class limits.
pr1mus da scr1pt
Rage-Inducing Forum Troll
1. that's not a counter-argument. or something you can argue to because it's ad hominem. besides, "aim better" isn't a tactic you can apply to ur playstyle, like somebody purposely misses all his shots.
2. so again, you don't want to explain what "WELL" means, the fact you capitalize the letters probably means you want to stress that you want to use stickies WELL. you mean in advance, sticky boobytraps that are out of sight? that isn't so much of a counter against heavies specifically, as it's a tactic (one that requires luck, so it's not much for a sound tactic either) that you can apply to counter any class, charged headshots are also excellent counters to every class, but isn't much of an argument if it's about heavy design fallacies.
oh, and about rocketjumping soldiers killing the medic; good medics are usually aware of their surrounding and would be aware of the frantic rocket jumping soldier 20 feet above him, so you could argue that the medic could just dodge the rockets, and then you could argue "Aim. Get some." again even though that wouldn't make sense a second time either.
why attract all the unnecessary rocketjumping attention you warrant when playing soldier when you can play scout? you have the mobility, damage, and the lack of decibel which is very effective when you don't want to attract attention to a wary medic and his lumbering oaf on a chain. scout has the means to do what he's supposed to do before the enemy knows wtf.
Ozone
Server-Clearing Cynic
Well you are just a dumbass. If I have to dumb everything down that much I see no point in even talking to people like you.
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