New [ZE] Zombie Enzyme/Base Zombie rework ideas

im a woo

im a woo

Somewhat Threatening Sniper
Contributor
A topic discussed about often but I'd like to give my thoughts on what changes ZMs could use.
One of the main concerns I hear from Bottiger is that buffing zombies would make people lose more as human, thus less people would want to play. But I feel that zombies are players first impression to ZE, and are played more than half the time by newer players. With half the classes with poorer abilities and constant suppression, it gives players a sense of hopelessness causing them to just leave.
These ideas may buff a lot of zombie abilities, but the ideas aim to give more variety to zombie gameplay rather than upping the zombie team as a whole.

Main things I think would be best to achieve in zombie enzymes would be:
  • Interactive, gives a feeling of actual usefulness, such as Snipers enzyme giving more room to kill humans
  • Has some sort of counter play, such as Heavys enzyme able to be blocked with buildings or tanky classes
  • Not OP when stacked with multiple zombies
  • Not too difficult to implement since there's only 1 developer on ZM enzymes


The classes I won't go over will be Heavy, Sniper, and Spy, since their enzymes are in a fine position.

Scout
  • Increase damage to above 100
By far the biggest issue with Zombie Scout IMO. Dealing only 88 damage on hit is outdated, since it was this damage back before 200 HP was implimented. Taking 3 hits to kill anyone and taking way too many hits to kill overhealed players makes this class way too hard to actually get any kills with, especially for newer players.

  • Return old enzyme but nerfed (optional)
The old enzyme speed boosted players nearby, not just the Scout. I personally felt it was a bit on the OP side, but just on the Scout can feel underwhelming and less fun than the old version. If version were to return, I suggest nerfing it by either reducing the radius, or making the speed boost last a lot shorter on nearby zombies (not the Scout himself), that way its stacking ability is reduced.


Soldier
  • Increase the self buff
Soldiers enzyme currently is just Snipers enzyme but weaker. Snipers enzyme just gives everyone soldiers ability. So I feel this self buff could be strengthened a bit to help the soldier out, especially when Soldier is the default class. Some ideas I thought of are:
  • Minicrits + Battalions Backup Resistance + 10% speed boost (implement a way where it cannot be stacked with Scouts enzyme, constantly removing the speed boost condition through its duration)
  • Minicrits + 20-35% extra melee range (Possibly OP though, and can feel less fun to fight against)
I also suggest reducing the Half Zatoichis firing speed if these enzymes were to be implemented, since it has longer melee range


Pyro
  • Set the bomb on a timer
Right now pyros enzyme has no real counter play, it's far too easy to hit humans with pyros enzyme. The idea here is that the pyros enzyme takes about 5 seconds to detonate, but if the pyro is killed before then, the enzyme is suppressed (and can play a unique suppression sound for humans to feel better).
The pyro could also be highlighted the same way FF2 bosses are when hit with sniper rifles, that way players can easily see that the pyro is a priority to kill. This is also a sort of nerf to the Pyros enzyme I feel would help spice up gameplay interaction between ZMs and humans.

  • Set humans on fire with afterburn for 4-6 seconds
This is mostly just to help spice up the interactive-ness between humans and zombies, giving pyros a sense of accomplishment and actually see what humans they hit.


Demoman
  • Increase non-sword damage to standard damage (208)
For similar reasons I stated in the Scout section, Demo is too difficult to actually get kills with. The charge is already slower and has less duration, the Demo takes more KB and has less HP, the damage reduction is just unnecessary. The minicrit damage after charging is not enough to kill humans as you're easily supressed by any source of KB

  • Replace the enzyme with a caber (?) (Edit: Optional)
Giving more variety to Demos playstyle rather than having charge 24/7, the idea here is to ban the Caber normally, but enzyme replaces your melee with a caber that will kill the human you hit (~300 damage perhaps?), and deal ~50 damage to nearby humans (low range)


Engineer
  • Sap buildings instead of stunning buildings
This would give engie a better sense of helping the team by actually fully disabling minis for a set duration rather than a hard-to-notice short stun. Sappers normally take 4 seconds against mini-sentries, which is enough time to seem useful, but also not make Sentries out of the game for too long.
The current stunning on humans is fine though IMO


Medic
  • Rework to a vampirism effect
Similar reasons as to pyro, there's no counterplay against Medics current enzyme, and humans are basically forced to take the damage. So the idea is to:
-Temporarily sets your HP to a very low amount (Go back to high HP afterwards possibly?)
-Slowly drain nearby humans health, 10-15 HP/s, stops when killed
-Highlighted just like Pyro to give humans a priority target
-Edit: Lasts about 6-10 seconds, maybe a 1-3 second startup time

Again, these ideas are more to give variety to the Zombie classes rather than people sticking to the few strong Enzymes (Heavy, Heavy, and Heavy).
Spicing up interactions between zombies and humans will make people enjoy the mode and stick around longer, and aim to reduce bozos leaving since they can't go anywhere as the first few zombies. New players start off as zombie for essentially 2 rounds, so for them to stick around longer, they should have try fun as zombie at least.
If these suggestions still seem too OP, then I also suggest reducing enzyme buildup from 8 enzyme per buildup down to 6 enzyme per buildup.

Basic summary since some people can't pay attention without subway surfers
  • Scout melee damage buff, possibly return old enzyme with speed boost nerf
  • Soldier increased self buff (Battalions + 10% speed boost + minicrits)
  • Pyro highlighted, enzyme change to be on a set timer, but can deal afterburn
  • Demoman damage buff on non-sword weapons, replace enzyme with a caber
  • Engineer enzyme to sap buildings
  • Medic highlighted, enzyme to drain humans HP but can be killed

Bonus QOL suggestion: Allow zombies to killbind so they can change class easier without the kill on change class
 
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Unfunny

Unfunny

Uncharitable Spy
Contributor
+1. Don't quite agree with the demoman enzyme change (see thoughts in discord), but everything else is good.
 
Staked le Steph

Staked le Steph

Mildly Menacing Medic
Unfunny said:
+1. Don't quite agree with the demoman enzyme change (see thoughts in discord), but everything else is good.
Click to expand...
I mean demoman didn't even have a enzyme at first lmao

I don't really care for demoman enzyme as most people don't even play him other than to point farm in the first place but something that is useful.

Maybe if they're wearing a shield they can charge without them being stopped by shots until they got hit by like 400 damage..
 
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