Declined [VSH US] Add a Region Lock to the Server

[RockoRango]

Before I start, let me state that this isn't me trying to speak for everyone else. Rather, this is me expressing the frustration that I see consistently from regulars and new players alike when a person with 200 ping dominates as hale or as a damage class (such as spy).

Time and time again people from Europe, Asia, UK, and Australia come into the US server and destroy the upper half of the scoreboard, irritating much of the US players (especially the regulars) due to the amount of stupidity that occurs from the high ping. When asked, most reasons for coming to the server from a different region consist of:

- The EU server isn't as full.

This is because other regions keep coming into the US server with their high ping. If you actually played in the correct server, it would have players.

- The players here are more fun to play against.

While this may be true, it's not fun to play against you when you're, unintentionally or not, using your ping as a crutch. The best example of this is the stupid amount of people that have a ridiculous ping as hale and having 4x the range they should have.

- I don't care.

We care, and don't appreciate you flooding the server with high-ping stupidity.

I, and I'm sure the regulars on US, have nothing against players in other regions; however, the increasing amount of people joining that barely know English, talk in a different language (when no one can understand them except others from outside the US), use their high ping to destroy everyone else, and complain about US players being babies for complaining about them is stupid and rising in popularity. If they want to force the burden of their bad connection onto us, we should force them to stay out.

As a quick FYI, I'm not talking about high ping. This occurs for no reason under their control, so there's no reason to discriminate for it. I'm talking about people who join another region when it says, specifically, US and actively dilute the enjoyment of fighting as/against hale. There should be a region lock to keep those players out.


Orrr just decline it and call it dumb without actually refuting anything like a true gamer

 

[herp 105.4]

Orrr just decline it and call it dumb without actually refuting anything like a true gamer

complaining about ping in a video game where it is worse for the person who is lagging

funny

 

[SaltWoter]

My nuts

 

[Stove™]

https://www.skial.com/threads/ping-lock-the-hale-on-vsh-servers.87501/#post-793818

This topic has come up in the past. No matter how big of a paragraph you type about it, how much you try to explain why it’s something that should be done, the answer will always be no.

We can’t all be blessed with amazing ping and some of us have friends in different parts of the world who want to enjoy these servers as much as you do.

 

[RockoRango]

complaining about ping in a video game where it is worse for the person who is lagging

funny

As a quick FYI, I'm not talking about high ping. This occurs for no reason under their control, so there's no reason to discriminate for it. I'm talking about people who join another region when it says, specifically, US and actively dilute the enjoyment of fighting as/against hale. There should be a region lock to keep those players out.

You don't understand the situation.
It's not worse for them in this gamemode, it benefits them greatly. Hales from other regions have an enormous range because their position client-side is different from their position server-side (and vise versa against Spies) Even then, it's not about the ping but also just the stupid amount of toxicity from both sides that spawn from US players complaining and the other region players having an advantage and not caring at all.

https://www.skial.com/threads/ping-lock-the-hale-on-vsh-servers.87501/#post-793818
This topic has come up in the past. No matter how big of a paragraph you type about it, how much you try to explain why it’s something that should be done, the answer will always be no.

We can’t all be blessed with amazing ping and some of us have friends in different parts of the world who want to enjoy these servers as much as you do.

At least that's a response I can understand. However, I'm not asking for a high-ping ban, just a region lock, so this thread isn't a repost. Sacrificing a lot of the server's enjoyment during rounds for a friend that's from another region that isn't even intended for the server (NOT having a high ping, two different things) is ill-willed; I had a boyfriend that resides in Hungary and I liked to play with them on this server, so I understand, but it's simply not very efficient to allow this influx and still call it a 'US' server. If you don't want to, why not just get rid of the 'US' on the server title? That would make sure none of this pops up again and you can just say the server is "based in the US".

Also, just create more servers in different regions?

 

[RockoRango]

yes

 

[herp 105.4]

aight

devil has a concurrent 200 ping and his hitreg is shit, spies backstab him from a mile away for him and hits dont register

its worse for the person lagging so own up and hit your shots

 

[RockoRango]

aight

devil has a concurrent 200 ping and his hitreg is shit, spies backstab him from a mile away for him and hits dont register

its worse for the person lagging so own up and hit your shots

VSH US btw, but if you wanna play the 'ping is against you' game come at me. I'm not scared when I know I'm legitimately correct, especially when it comes to refuting that type of comment

Assuming devil means hale: His ping is 200, Spies backstab him as normal but have a chance of getting killed by the range of Hale's weapon extending well behind him (and people in the front have a chance of getting killed from a range far greater than an Eyelander).This is because, like I said, their client-side and server-side positions are not equal and, therefore, inaccurate. You can still hit hale fine but his range makes his hits extremely dumb, which makes playing against them not fun, which creates a bundle of salt, which I said was another reason and not just 'high ping' (And, by the way, I hit my shots extremely fine if you play on the server I'm talking about as a regular like I do).

 

[Percilius]

VSH US btw, but if you wanna play the 'ping is against you' game come at me. I'm not scared when I know I'm legitimately correct, especially when it comes to refuting that type of comment

Assuming devil means hale: His ping is 200, Spies backstab him as normal but have a chance of getting killed by the range of Hale's weapon extending well behind him (and people in the front have a chance of getting killed from a range far greater than an Eyelander).This is because, like I said, their client-side and server-side positions are not equal and, therefore, inaccurate. You can still hit hale fine but his range makes his hits extremely dumb, which makes playing against them not fun, which creates a bundle of salt, which I said was another reason and not just 'high ping' (And, by the way, I hit my shots extremely fine if you play on the server I'm talking about as a regular like I do).

Just a simple question, how often have you played with high ping?

 

[RockoRango]

Just a simple question, how often have you played with high ping?

I used to play all the time with high ping, but I recently got a modem upgrade (and a mesh extender) and it's been a lot better. However, like I've been saying, it isn't just about the ping but also the toxicity most people outside of the US bring into the server (or people in US becoming toxic towards them).

While I also recognize that it's a pain in the butt to play with a high ping sometimes, you still gain an advantage if you have a consistently high ping (ping >150 < 250) just because the hits that connect on your screen are hits that shouldn’t connect server-side but are smoothed out due to how source handles lag compensation (making people be closer to you than they think they are). It's different if you have constant ping fluctuations or have a small brain ping (>250) because that's when the person with high ping starts to suffer beyond a reasonable doubt.

TL;DR: ye

 

[Percilius]

I used to play all the time with high ping, but I recently got a modem upgrade (and a mesh extender) and it's been a lot better. However, like I've been saying, it isn't just about the ping but also the toxicity most people outside of the US bring into the server.

While I also recognize that it's a pain in the butt to play with a high ping sometimes, you still gain an advantage if you have a consistently high ping (ping >150 < 250) just because the hits that connect on your screen are hits that shouldn’t connect server-side but are smoothed out due to how source handles lag compensation (making people be closer to you than they think they are). It's different if you have constant ping fluctuations or have a small brain ping (>250) because that's when the person with high ping starts to suffer beyond a reasonable doubt.

TL;DR: ye

Now hear me out on this, as a guy who plays with over 200 ping at a constant, it's not all just positives when you play. I get hit by what I see as bullshit means too on my screen. It's not all sunshine and rainbows for us. Toxicity is human nature and it isn't against the rules so making a ping lock for something like that makes no sense.

 

[RockoRango]

Now hear me out on this, as a guy who plays with over 200 ping at a constant, it's not all just positives when you play. I get hit by what I see as bullshit means too on my screen. It's not all sunshine and rainbows for us. Toxicity is human nature and it isn't against the rules so making a ping lock for something like that makes no sense.

While toxicity is human nature, this toxicity can be easily avoided all together and give a better experience to everyone involved.

I never said I wanted a high ping lock; In fact, I'm against it because of both my sheer experience with it and the struggle that occurs with bad internet. If someone lives in the server's region but has a bad ping they're just as entitled to play on it as everyone else in that region. When people complain, however, that their region's server is empty? It's literally because most of them play on the US server (that they also have a poor connection to). That's very inefficient and, frankly, frustrating for a lot of people since they're actively killing off their region's server and burdening US with ping that makes versing them tedious.

People in other regions need an incentive to actually go populate the server made for their region in the first place, where they'd all have a better experience/ping. If there was a region lock on US, for example, EU would likely be packed with people who are having an experience equal to those in US who, if a lock was in place, are having a great experience without the players from other regions.

 

[Percilius]

While toxicity is human nature, this toxicity can be easily avoided all together and give a better experience to everyone involved.

I never said I wanted a high ping lock; In fact, I'm against it because of both my sheer experience with it and the struggle that occurs with bad internet. If someone lives in the server's region but has a bad ping they're just as entitled to play on it as everyone else in that region. When people complain, however, that their region's server is empty? It's literally because most of them play on the US server (that they also have a poor connection to). That's very inefficient and, frankly, frustrating for a lot of people since they're actively killing off their region's server and burdening US with ping that makes versing them tedious.

People in other regions need an incentive to actually go populate the server made for their region in the first place, where they'd all have a better experience/ping. If there was a region lock on US, for example, EU would likely be packed with people who are having an experience equal to those in US who, if a lock was in place, are having a great experience without the players from other regions.

And what about the people living in Asia? We don't get many servers running gamemodes like these and the ones that do are pretty much either empty or badly maintained.
Saying that locking the us servers would fill up the EU servers is an if. Tons of people would just end up not playing it anymore.
Anyone you see with over 180 ping at a constant is more than likely from Asia.
Region locking a single server isn't something that bottiger would do because he'd have to lock every server if that idea was being executed.

 

[Bottiger]

There aren't enough players.

 

[RockoRango]

There aren't enough players.

The US server basically becomes extremely full around noon EST, to the point where multiple people have to queue for an auto-join, and I almost always see a quarter of them that definitely are not in the US. If two servers were created and the EU server gave all of them a better connection, US would likely be filled with US players that previously were waiting in the queue and the EU server would be filled with AT LEAST more than half the server full (assuming that EU has players at the moment).

And what about the people living in Asia? We don't get many servers running gamemodes like these and the ones that do are pretty much either empty or badly maintained.
Saying that locking the us servers would fill up the EU servers is an if. Tons of people would just end up not playing it anymore.
Anyone you see with over 180 ping at a constant is more than likely from Asia.
Region locking a single server isn't something that bottiger would do because he'd have to lock every server if that idea was being executed.

Even then, if EU wouldn't fill enough (because it's very unlikely US would be any less full), why not make a server based in Central Europe that connects EU, Russia, and Asia together (Probably will have to allow UK into US and AU to EU) so that they can all have one server and US could have the others? This would remove the cost of running so many dead servers and pack traffic into fewer servers (Central EU and US), making it much more efficient than having individual ones that end up dead due to having too many options (Server for ASIA, server for EU, server for US, Russia, and others). If Central EU becomes filled? You know there's an audience, and can expand it into another server. If US becomes filled? Condense them into multiple servers until you have the correct amount where you always have traffic and don't have to deal with multiple dead servers every day.

Going on, you're correct about Bottiger likely needing to do that. However, wouldn't it be in his best interest in the first place to put in the effort to experiment with this? Skial could save costs, have more active than dead servers, and it would look good for them as a whole by decreasing their empty server count if the effort was put into testing it and it turned out to be effective.

My proposal:
Turn EU VSH into Central EU VSH with all regions except US allowed, condense US VSH servers into fewer servers (if necessary) that are locked to US and CAN, then make an announcement to up the initial player count on the new servers. Give it a few weeks to see if it works (or, better yet, redirect anyone that doesn't belong into CEU if they join the US). If it does, then start to execute it more broadly. If not, revert it and forget about it ever happening.
This could be for nothing, but I felt compelled to give a take on it.
Sorry about the wall of text lmao

 

[Bottiger]

I'm sorry but you don't know how the system works.

Community TF2 has a really bad problem where people don't join empty servers. By putting in a region lock, you make this problem 10x worse for yourself and drive players to competitors. They'll have a higher player count in the morning because everyone filters out empty servers and sorts by highest player count and you locked out the players most likely to be on the server during off hours.

Playing with 200 ping is very painful and people would not be doing it if there was a reasonable alternative. We used to have servers in many more locations and the EU VSH server was filled 24/7.

 

[RockoRango]

I'm sorry but you don't know how the system works.

Community TF2 has a really bad problem where people don't join empty servers. By putting in a region lock, you make this problem 10x worse for yourself and drive players to competitors. They'll have a higher player count in the morning because everyone filters out empty servers and sorts by highest player count and you locked out the players most likely to be on the server during off hours.

Playing with 200 ping is very painful and people would not be doing it if there was a reasonable alternative. We used to have servers in many more locations and the EU VSH server was filled 24/7.

While you might know more than me, Don't misinterpret that as me not knowing how the system works. Your logic applies to gaining entirely new players and not to having/keeping the current audience happy.
Most people who play on VSH US are regulars, and the newcomers usually become regulars after a few weeks. I've seen it happen over the course of 6-7 years time and time again, and now most faces I see are the same ones I knew 3 months ago. What does that say to us? Well, it means that most players enjoy VSH and come every night to stay and play with other regulars. You wouldn't get an empty server except on rare occasions, like you do now, because the current player base is loyal and comes online consistently at the same time. Region-locking would improve that percentage of new players that stay on US because they see the same people, feel a sense of community, and now no longer feel frustrated or called out as problematic when they constantly experience broken gameplay (whether that be because their ping is too much or other player's pings are ruining the experience). This also would apply vise-versa, and maybe even more so because the loyal part of the base that are European, Asian, or any other region that isn't close enough to have a reasonable connection are directed from US to CEU and gains traction there (as their experience is much better than it was in US) and they'll continue to come on, therefore never leaving the server empty if all goes well (due to the different timezones all directed towards one server in that area).

Or, you could just region-lock it for the longevity of everyone in the region and deal with the loss of a few people who are forced to go to EU. You can't make everyone happy.

However, seeing as I was instantly declined, your position is probably not budging and this is where I get off.

 

[Maddo]

Before I start, let me state that this isn't me trying to speak for everyone else. Rather, this is me expressing the frustration that I see consistently from regulars and new players alike when a person with 200 ping dominates as hale or as a damage class (such as spy).

Time and time again people from Europe, Asia, UK, and Australia come into the US server and destroy the upper half of the scoreboard, irritating much of the US players (especially the regulars) due to the amount of stupidity that occurs from the high ping. When asked, most reasons for coming to the server from a different region consist of:

- The EU server isn't as full.

This is because other regions keep coming into the US server with their high ping. If you actually played in the correct server, it would have players.

- The players here are more fun to play against.

While this may be true, it's not fun to play against you when you're, unintentionally or not, using your ping as a crutch. The best example of this is the stupid amount of people that have a ridiculous ping as hale and having 4x the range they should have.

- I don't care.

We care, and don't appreciate you flooding the server with high-ping stupidity.

I, and I'm sure the regulars on US, have nothing against players in other regions; however, the increasing amount of people joining that barely know English, talk in a different language (when no one can understand them except others from outside the US), use their high ping to destroy everyone else, and complain about US players being babies for complaining about them is stupid and rising in popularity. If they want to force the burden of their bad connection onto us, we should force them to stay out.

As a quick FYI, I'm not talking about high ping. This occurs for no reason under their control, so there's no reason to discriminate for it. I'm talking about people who join another region when it says, specifically, US and actively dilute the enjoyment of fighting as/against hale. There should be a region lock to keep those players out.


Orrr just decline it and call it dumb without actually refuting anything like a true gamer

Your rant reminds me of a small, moustached man on a table in a Munich beer house.

 

[Bottiger]

Your logic applies to gaining entirely new players and not to having/keeping the current audience happy.

Uh no, regulars leave in droves when we aren't able to fill the server for them. Ask anyone playing on our payload server last year how that turned out.

I think you need to try running your own VSH server first to learn these lessons the hard way.