Declined [VSH] remove easter bunny nine iron
- Thread starter nip nop
- Start date
nip nop
Mildly Menacing Medic
bunny was solidly balanced before getting the nine iron. his rage can be extremely powerful on smaller maps and enclosed spaces, and acts as a good deterrent for melee classes and builds, like spies and demoknights (especially spycicle). extra mobility from his jump height is always solid, as mobility is arguably the most important thing for hales in general. saxton himself is also debatably the worst hale after recent balancing. before one could say he was the best, due to having the highest knockback resistance of all the hales. but after knockback durability buffs to every hale, he lacks anything to make him to stand out from the rest, especially with having the largest hitbox. upon receiving the nine iron, bunny is definitely among the higher tier of hales, alongside vagineer and cbs.
not true at all. historically, eyelander range has been the horseman's specialty, not bunny's. bunny's main specialty has been his rage, which as ive already explained is a solid enough side-grade to warrant deviance from the other hales.
on another note, and on second thought i probably should have included this in my main post about bunny balances, is why do his eggs exist at all if theyre only now going to buff red, instead of the hale? you're effectively punishing the hale for doing what hes supposed to do, killing enemies. before it could go either way, hale receiving crits for extra damage against tankier classes while still giving red the option to get the crits themselves, making him a glass cannon. now hes just punished for playing the game.
What do you consider a balanced Hale, and how do you measure the metric of what's "OP" and "UP" in terms of Hales?
That's just an Eyelander with extra steps!
nip nop
Mildly Menacing Medic
its hard to say what a "balanced" hale really is considering how niche of a gamemode this is, and the overall nature of trying to balance one player against an entire server. whenever i try to look at it, i see saxton hale as the "stock weapon" of all the bosses as he is the face of the entire gamemode and the most linear of the bunch, and so i feel that all the other bosses should be balanced around him as sidegrades in their own rights. that being said, i dont think its hard to see how vagineer and cbs are the two best hales in the game right now. both have much more slender models than hale, and have insanely powerful rages. vagineer was already good with his complete invulnerability, but i suppose someone felt the added swing speed was "necessary" to increase hale win rate (terrible philosophy for balancing), and i shouldnt have to explain why giving a hale the ability to kill any class at any range is a bad idea. both hhh and bunny will naturally be very powerful due to the nature of eyelander range. all these buffs are given to these bosses for seemingly no drawbacks from saxton's current state. this is why i liked the "knockback" balancing, in which saxton hale had the highest knockback durability, whereas others like cbs and vagineer would get knocked around due to the weight of the classes theyre based on. far from perfect, but introducing drawbacks to bosses made them more interesting and introduced actual niches for picking. however in recent balances, the added knockbock durability to all hales removed these drawbacks and left saxton as easily the worst hale.
Well, if the other Hales are sidegrades, then unfortunately they are currently balanced exactly as you described.
All the other bosses still have inferiorities compared to Saxton, and currently, Saxton Hale still wins the most out of all the Hales far and away.
nip nop
Mildly Menacing Medic
except that they’re not. is anyone really going to argue that cbs and vagineer aren’t direct upgrades to saxton? they all share the same super jump, have default range, and aoe stun rage. except that vagineer and cbs have objectively superior rages. the only two hales that are somewhat balanced as side grades are bunny and hhh, the two eyelander users. hhh lacks a super jump, and bunny can’t use his melee during rage, but I don’t think it’s hard to see how both of them are on par or if not better than saxton. if you’re looking at your little “statistics” to see which hale is the best, then I believe you should take them with a grain of salt. more often than not I find it’s mostly better players who prefer saxton, whereas little jimmy.gonzalez2014 will usually play either vagineer or horseman.
Not true. CBS's rage has piss poor range, and his arrows are really only great for taking down 125 health classes, on top of the fact that his arrows don't deal crit damage on headshot and are hard to aim.
Both him and VAG have increased knockback compared to saxton has well, and while I do think vagineer could use a small nerf, Saxton is still better in some ways.
CBS and Vagineer's rage stun radiuses are far smaller than Hale's, especially CBS, whose stun barely reaches farther than a couple bodies from him. Yes, I would say they're not direct upgrades.
I am still in agreement that Bunny should get his bottle back, but the thing is that at the end of the day, statistics are what matter and what controls changes here. Bunny's winrate went up when he received his golf club, and yet he's currently the weakest Hale in terms of that he loses the most. A straight nerf wouldn't get passed and it'd be more likely to buff the hell out of Bunny and then reduce him back to Bottle.
The closest we have to a counter for over-powered rocket/flare-jumping is the Easter Bunny's (and Horsemann's) current melee range. We shouldn't take away the former without having worked out a feasible alternative. Until that has actually happened, my vote stays on -1.
Do note that I've posted a -1 three times now and only the first of those should count.
Do note that I've posted a -1 three times now and only the first of those should count.
nip nop
Mildly Menacing Medic
the eyelander range doesnt change the actual playstyle required to fight against mantreads soldiers and flare jumping pyros, and while it DOES significantly help against them, the focal point of balancing should be nerfing the absurd mobility of both of these classes, and not making bunny far more powerful than needed. you make bunny more powerful for two broken unlocks, and hes also made more powerful against the rest of the 7 classes.
the two current 2x diffs are well, challenges, what did you expect? my distaste for rage's stun is very public, but balancing hales should not revolve around these arbitrary challenges.
Fair, though you also said exactly why my point still stands. We first need to nerf the mobility of Soldier and Pyro before we nerf the Bunny.