This is why im still raging.

Damn, guess ill need a new hook to get kids off the server. But at least thats clear its a guideline and not ACTUAL law like some of the guys here said <_<
 
For once, I actually liked being proved wrong...
Back on topic, I don't think there is any way to prevent kids from playing it, although you can certainly discourage them.
 
CompassCall said:
Ah, I see, what you're saying now is that it's illegal for BOTTIGER and valve to allow acsess to an M rated game.

Your logic: There is no law forbidding a child from playing an M rated game, however it is illegal for a 7 year old to purchase a game an M rated game. Is it illegal for the children to do this or is it more practical that the retailers are responsible for providing the free content?

If its the ladder, then shouldn't steam have preventative measures to keep underage kids from buying or playing these games? Could we fit our servers with an addon then checks the user's birthday with their steam account and lock them out? It seems to me we are already being douchey by assuming we can let whoever we want play without worrying about the welfare of the children. That's plain irresponsible.
Click to expand...

"Is it illegal for the children to do this (buy M-rated games.)?"
1. Yes, the child has made the conscious decision to break a (silly) law, if they exploit the system to get the game without parental permission. However, this has nothing to do with what happens when the user is playing the game, so it is neither Steam or the servers job to do such policing. Because, once the game is purchased, it is assumed that it was done so legally, so that person is free to play the game. A user birthday checker would not work, because as I stated before, PEOPLE CAN STILL PLAY THE GAME EVEN IF THEY AREN'T 17, and the user birthday checker would ruin things for kids whos parents did let them get the game.

Alt
"Shouldn't steam have preventative measures to keep underage kids from buying or playing these games?"
2a. Well first off, Steam does have some prevenative measures. The birth date checking tool. Now keep in mind, they are very broken and easily exploitable, but they do exist.
2b. Any parent that was somewhat involved in their kids life could figure out what games their kid had access to. Especially with a platform like Steam, that keeps it permanently on record.

"It seems to me we are already being douchey by assuming we can let whoever we want play without worrying about the welfare of the children."
3a. I am of the firm belief that M-Rated games are not "harmful to children." We are wired from birth to be able to diferentiate between "playing" and "reality", shooting sprites when you're 7 doesn't change that.
3b. What is more douchey? To allow a person who has made their own conscious decision, to engage in thier hobby of choice? Or; "To decide that we're more important than the parents and children who should be making the decision, and declare that we aren't going to allow anyone of that age group to play on the server?"
 
Sorry it took so long to post, had to make sure I covered everything.
 
Too bad you've already been proven wrong, making your entire post and reasearch you did

completely

pointless
 
Mark said:
We are wired from birth to be able to diferentiate between "playing" and "reality", shooting sprites when you're 7 doesn't change that.
Click to expand...
But most kids can't get that through their thick skulls. (and the fact that their minds are still developing) They think that they should actually listen to whomever is talking to them on the servers. I have a friend who's younger sibling actually had to be checked into a psychiatric hospital because of self-esteem issues. The culprit? Some random dude on TF2 who manage to talk him into his current mental state.
 
Exactly. Not everyone as "tough" as you Mark, you can't use yourself as a baseline for what kids are ok and not ok for.

Its those kind of wreckless assumptions that ALL kids should be allowed to play these types of games that lead to some pretty serious cases.
 
CompassCall said:
Too bad you've already been proven wrong, making your entire post and reasearch you did

completely

pointless
Click to expand...
What was I proven wrong of, aside from my claim that buying M-games was not exactly a law, but a guide line enforced by most major retailers? Not to mention, that was an irrelevant aspect of the argument I was trying to make. Which is still correct, people of any age can play M-rated games.
 
still doesnt mean kids can't get hurt. See above, read all posts before actually posting.
 
CompassCall said:
Exactly. Not everyone as "tough" as you Mark, you can't use yourself as a baseline for what kids are ok and not ok for.

Its those kind of wreckless assumptions that ALL kids should be allowed to play these types of games that lead to some pretty serious cases.
Click to expand...

I'm not as tough as you think. I had problems just like Scrambles had when I was growing up. I was "That faggot Atheist weaboo" that everyone made fun of for "Lols." I fought, I bickered, and sometimes things seemed like they were to tough to make it, but I always kept on going. And this was in real life.

When we play video games we enter a world of fiction. The problem for this person though, was that they were subject to the dangers of "unrated online content" which is a completely different issue seperate from the ESRB rating thing.

Now I mean no offence to Risen Demon or you friend, or the actual victim. But how could this even happen? I'll put aside the whole "gaming people talk trash by nature" argument for now, and assume that the type of harrasment was on parr with RL harrasment. But even then this should have been an avoidable issue. Why not leave the server? Why not mute the person? And if none of that works and this person is still (some how) getting to you, than why not tell someone sooner? I'm not blaming the victim here, but with all the tools that Valve gives us, what made this situation possible?
 
So you're calling the victims stupid and that they shoulve known better?

Regardless of your incorrect assumptions of the world, not everyone is the same. Not everyone is born equal, and some people are more suseptable to mental strain. doesnt help when you have an open source game and kids dont know better.
 
Okay this is the whole story of my friend and his younger sib
I would like to point out that I'm not trying to disprove what you said but rather, say why the situation became how it did..
My (former) friend who plays TF2, like me, has a younger sibling. He (being more mature and not as "exposed" to self-esteem issues) allowed his younger sib to play. I have no idea where he got the idea from, to let his younger sib to play, but he did it anyway. He frequents a server and allowed his younger sib to play on said server. That's when the trouble began.
He had a mike so he could say what he wanted to say, however, once he said something, everyone on the server actually did what some of us would do....initiate a votekick, and just like us, the kick did not pass through.
At this point, everyone started to talk smack about him. Sure he could've just muted them but he didn't know how to work the main menu. He could've also left, but as stated before, he did not know how to work the controls.
Not to mention he is a complete noob to how a computer works other than the default TF2 controls, so he couldn't have just turned off the power or turn off the speakers. People then started to talk about him, make fun of him, and other unmentionable things.
The next day, he was checked into the hospital
His brother actually recorded everything that happened that day using Fraps.
He showed me this video, I said why he would do that, and he said "I had no idea that something this funny would happen!" I promptly smacked punched him in his face and walked off.
 
CompassCall said:
So you're calling the victims stupid and that they shoulve known better?

Regardless of your incorrect assumptions of the world, not everyone is the same. Not everyone is born equal, and some people are more suseptable to mental strain. doesnt help when you have an open source game and kids dont know better.
Click to expand...

Don't try to present me as an uncaring monster. Sometimes the world sucks, sometimes it sucks more than others, and some people are more suceptible to the shit that the world gives them than others. Sometimes bad shit happens. Freedom of Speech means that every once in a while, a terrorist is gonna kill some people. Driving a car means that some people are gonna get in fatal accidents. And falling in love with someone you cared deeply for, means that at some point, you... well you may have to watch them die. Sometimes you get a shitty deal. But have you considered the alterior option? Of deciding on putting increasingly worse restrictions in to place, so that we can try to make it so these things never happen?

So what is my solution for this particular incident? You may be wondering. Well first, people should understand that whatever someone says to you, it doesn't have to control you. Only you can give their words power. Second, don't be afraid to walk away if you don't like what's going down. Even with prevenitive measures, sometimes this stuff still may happen, but that shouldn't be reason to condemn the things we love to a certain group of people.
 
Risen Demon said:
Okay this is the whole story of my friend and his younger sib
I would like to point out that I'm not trying to disprove what you said but rather, say why the situation became how it did..
My (former) friend who plays TF2, like me, has a younger sibling. He (being more mature and not as "exposed" to self-esteem issues) allowed his younger sib to play. I have no idea where he got the idea from, to let his younger sib to play, but he did it anyway. He frequents a server and allowed his younger sib to play on said server. That's when the trouble began.
He had a mike so he could say what he wanted to say, however, once he said something, everyone on the server actually did what some of us would do....initiate a votekick, and just like us, the kick did not pass through.
At this point, everyone started to talk smack about him. Sure he could've just muted them but he didn't know how to work the main menu. He could've also left, but as stated before, he did not know how to work the controls.
Not to mention he is a complete noob to how a computer works other than the default TF2 controls, so he couldn't have just turned off the power or turn off the speakers. People then started to talk about him, make fun of him, and other unmentionable things.
The next day, he was checked into the hospital
His brother actually recorded everything that happened that day using Fraps.
He showed me this video, I said why he would do that, and he said "I had no idea that something this funny would happen!" I promptly smacked punched him in his face and walked off.
Click to expand...
I understand that this must have sucked. But you have to understand, that this is an issue that was wholey outside of any ratings board or Valves control. The fact that he had low self-esteem, no knowledge of the in game UI, No familiarity with the online community, an almost unbelievable lack of knowledge on how to work basic computer functions like sound and power, and to top it all of, no initiatve to get up and walk away when things got bad, was the base for an unfortunate situation that, while tragic, is still a rather isolated incident. I am truely sorry, but I don't think this is the ratings board or Valves fault.
 
Everyone in this thread:
a_bloo_bloo_bloo_by_ryclaude-d3ff9ad.jpg

I DON'T WANNA USE THE MUTE BUTTON! I WANNA COMPLAIN ABOUT IT WAHHHH!
 
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So what you are NOW saying is Mr. Changey McOpinion (Mark) Is that it is OK for kids to be exposed to some bad shit some of the time, but not all of the time.

You are still evading my questions in concern for your own image. I'm all for tough love and making kids stronger (since quite honestly people are starting to become whimps) but you are not looking at the whole picture. You're treating all kids as compotent individuals that A) know how to work a computer, B) are not emotionally unstable, and C) are not immature to the point of a babby pooping its knickers.

While this is not true for all kids, its true for some. Hell I'd say its true for the majority. But the fact of the matter is kids, like Risen Demon's example, can be hurt if they are not stable or ready. We should have some minimum of protection for said kids so they don't hurt themselves or are not emotionally traumatized by certain elements of this game. I know it may sound TERRIBLE that were taking kids rights away for their own benefit, but a majority of their childhood is just that. Adults telling them no because they are not ready or not mature enough to handle it. I really don't think thisll start any lawsuits if we deny kids acsess to the servers, since many regular institutions block out kids such as bars, strip clubs, and many other places I frequent ;) But the fact that you are not willing to take one preventative measure for the welfare of children, as minor as saying "wair a helmet" you're throwing all caution to the wind and exposing them to an unnecessary amount of danger.

Moderation, my friend, is something you really need to look up.

See classy's post for Mark's face when he reposts.
 
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