Approved The Sniper in VSH was nerfed too much.

[NOPEはプロです]

The snipers dmg got reduced to between 75 and 225 recently (only headshots do the old 150-450 dmg now). While I do agree that the knockback on the sniper rifle was OP, the dmg he could do was perfectly fine as it gave him a chance in a 1 v 1, now if hale has around 3k HP and a sniper is the last one alive the hale has pretty much guaranteed win.Even if the sniper is very good and can hit headshots most of the time he won't be able to scope in when the hale is focusing him. It wouldn't be that difficult for hales to win even if sniper did 150 dmg as minimum so long there is no knockback that stops him mid-air.

Therefore, I think that the snipers dmg shloud be reverted back to 150-450 and the removed knockback should stay removed.

 

[uppe-r]

+1

 

[daffy*the_dude]

+10

 

[Pepe ツ]

+1 they've made sniper class completely useless

 

[Tonomas]

+1

 

[0zy]

+1

 

[Goatkoin]

+1

 

[mub]

-1

...the dmg he could do was perfectly fine as it gave him a chance in a 1 v 1, now if hale has around 3k HP and a sniper is the last one alive the hale has pretty much guaranteed win... Even if the sniper is very good and can hit headshots most of the time he won't be able to scope in when the hale is focusing him.

From what I gather, Hale is supposed to have the large advantage in a 1v1, especially if he still has a sizable chunk of HP at the end, and only the best players, regardless of class, will standing toe-to-toe with him in these situations.
So while I fully agree with the above statement, it's my understanding that it is by design that Hale has basically secured the win if he has a lot of HP by the time last man standing happens.

It wouldn't be that difficult for hales to win even if sniper did 150 dmg as minimum so long there is no knockback that stops him mid-air...
Therefore, I think that the snipers dmg shloud be reverted back to 150-450...

The stats are still showing snipers capable of racking up 6000-9000+ damage each, even on the smaller maps.
On wide open maps, such as dust_showdown, hakurei_shrine, urban_works, supermario, etc., I'm still watching snipers shred apart Hales on these maps, with only one or two Hales winning with very little HP remaining.
Increase Sniper's damage output and suddenly these maps become unwinnable for Hale.

To roughly paraphrase Bottiger's quote on VSH statistics, for about every 20 players, half opt out, and only 1 of the other 10 win.

(Pulled from another recent thread) With Hale's win% currently at only 10%, I wouldn't want to further reduce this number.



I do not understand the reasoning behind the intent of this buff;
however, if the community consensus ends up that Sniper should be buffed in some way,
I would not be opposed to that, but I do not believe it should be the way suggested.
I wouldn't want a solution that creates and/or worsens more problems.


P.S. Sniper still has knockback on headshot, since this is a vanilla mechanic.

 

[Dragontamer]

-1

 

[Old Chuck E. Cheese Token]

-1

Sniper's pre-nerf damage was too powerful. VSH is supposed to be more challenging for the RED team than for Hale. A sizable chunk of health was taken from snipers every round and many newish Hales never targetted Snipers so that literally just left the most broken class open for 6k-9k dmg just for standing. Also as mub stated, our larger maps are literally built for Snipers to just decimate Hale's health, basically unwinnable unless you focus snipers first.

 

[WWHHOO??]

-1
Sniper is NOT a 1v1 class and he is still able to do hundreds of damage with little to no risk in his current state.

 

[Mumbus]

+1

 

[Umity]

-1

This post would make sense in the context of the old version of VSH, but in VSH2, playing Hale is so god awful and sniper is one of the reasons for that. Even in the original VSH I thought sniper was busted.

If anything, this increases the skill gap to be a good sniper because for once headshots actually matter.

Sniper should never be a 1v1 class, it isn't in his design.

 

[Sheriff]

-1

There is a very good reason to why VSH2 implemented a class limit to Sniper and then furthermore applied the damage/knockback nerf and most of that has to do with what I have witnessed during both VSH1 and VSH2 in combination with the stupidly large maps like dust_showdown, urban_works, and even the now removed weapons_depot. Sniper's damage output together with the knockback he could do by simply clicking on the Hale was just too powerful, rendering newer Hales who don't necessarily know how to form strategies and target dangerous classes crippled and even getting some of the regulars who play Hale a hard time just because the knockback would make their attempts to reach the Snipers harder than it should be.

It was literally viable for a team to go 11-12 Snipers on those big maps, heck even the smaller maps because at that point Hale is now sitting in what is literally a Sniper's wet dream; a big open area in which there are Snipers at each and every part of the map shooting him from 10 different directions. Near impossible for him to fight off crowds of other classes safely because Snipers were busy shooting him and near impossible to begin prioritizing the Snipers when they marked their territory because 5 or 6 different Snipers would be protecting their fellow Sniper from across the map with knockback.

Even with the class limit implemented, Sniper's damage still allowed him to destroy Hales due to, again, the damage output and knockback. As long as the Sniper slots weren't taken up by like awful Snipers, the really good ones could still roam free and shoot to their heart's content. Further adding to the problem was the one safety net Hale could lean on which is basically removed in VSH2; Sniper's fragility.

An exposed/cornered Sniper in VSH is just as fragile as an exposed/cornered Sniper in vanilla TF2, if not more fragile due to Hale's ability to do 202 damage in a single punch. That fragility was somewhat counteracted by the Sniper due to his ability to wall climb in VSH which did allow the Sniper some form of mobility to dodge the Hale at the exchange of the Sniper's health, which was relatively low plus the risk of fall damage potentially killing the Sniper. It was a balanced risk-reward style that did allow the Sniper to survive even if Hale had him right where he wanted him.

Now, that risk-reward becomes more reward than risk because of Sniper being able to equip the Razorback, basically giving him a get-out-of-jail free card. Really good Snipers who know how to abuse wall climbing to avoid Hale are already somewhat hard to kill due to Hale's own limitations in mobility, but for those really good Snipers to effectively take a free hit really shoots Hale in the everything. Even more is that Snipers with the Razorback on take significantly less fall damage than they did before, equivalent to a Demoman with the boots or Soldier with the Mantreads. Hale will effectively have to spend double the effort just to kill a Sniper jumping around like a kangaroo and hitting him for 450 with a quickscope from the air and who cannot die from breaking his legs from a long fall, just because the Sniper has what is basically a Demoman shield and boots.

Overall, Sniper's strengths before his nerf just far outweigh whatever weaknesses he has, excluding player skill which might be the biggest make-or-break for any class in any game mode, whether it is Vanilla TF2 or VSH.

 

[BigChapAlien]

-1

Even shitty snipers or mediocre snipers could do IMMENSE damage. Go back and look at the video I posted for Private's thread. I'm not even that good at Sniper and missed half my shots and still hit 2k with ease. Sniper SHOULD be at a disadvantage in a 1v1 against Hale.

In fact, Hale should NEVER be at a disadvantage in a 1v1 situation. That's the point of the one vs the many. Start hitting your headshots if you want to do a ton of damage.