Declined VSH !setboss removal?

[Pig]

Hi all, hope quarantine is going a little less crap than the norm.

I strongly believe that the !setboss command on VSH (the command which allows you to choose the hale you wish to play as) is morally unfair and unjust. I think that people can pick and choose the hale which suits the map the most, or the amount of players on the server etc. Picking and choosing diminishes the randomness and excitement that comes with playing the hale. Some VSH players have completely mastered / are way more comfortable playing a certain boss, in-turn, they kill everyone in the server in about 2 minutes with 80% of their health still intact. Now the two bosses which are mostly played are CBS or Trolldier, with both having a projectile or weapon to fire, a direct advantage which leaves the rest of the bosses mostly unplayed.

Thank you for taking your time and reading this.
Pig.

 

[uppe-r]

i agree with all u said bby
lov u <3
sunday is gay day

 

[Butter Butterson]

Morality is irrelevant, as is the map, for the most part. If players want to play a particular hale then I don't see why they shouldn't, but the reason Trolldier and Christian Brutal Sniper (CBS) are most played are because they are the most OP (unbalanced) hales. Trolldier's shotgun should not have 10 rounds and should not be able to 2-shot close range. Similarly, CBS's arrows should not be able to one-shot players close-range or further away (headshotting is another matter). The hitbox of the arrows is such that the hale's luck trumps any counter the other team can mount. These reasons are sufficient to explain why !setboss or !sethale (the ability to choose which hale) is not a balanced mechanic, i.e. either nerf the arrows and the shotgun (fix the hales) or remove !setboss/!sethale. This is my opinion, and the opinion of several regular players.

 

[Pig]

I completely understand your point, and I totally agree about the nerfing of CBS' arrows and Troldiers' bullets which are completely unbalanced. I honestly think it was better off without it, and how it was, where it was random, fair and impartial. You mention your opinion being corroborated by other regular players, but i guess so goes with mine, as I know people who are becoming weary of the system. Even if they do become nerfed and everything becomes equitable, I still think having a randomly chose boss creates more fun than having a pre-selected boss.

 

[MrLupin]

-1
I'll admit that some of the bosses are op but removing !setboss would be a pain. Like for example if I wanted to be Christian Brutal Sniper since I am good at him, removing !setboss would make it harder to play as CBS. Sure, I could learn some of the other bosses; But what if somebody is bad at Trolldier and couldn't select a boss? I will have to disagree on this since it could isolate new players from joining VSH to play the bosses, and it wouldn't be fun without !setboss.

 

[Pig]

That's completely fair, and everyone is entitled to their opinion, but not only without !setboss it would be a 1/6 chance of getting Trolldier, if they think they are bad at Trolldier and need improvement, the most logical thing to do would instead learn by playing the class instead of changing to another, more op class. In VSH 1, the !setboss command wasn't a thing, and I found that people were "!resetq"ing a lot less. I think this is down to people who pick and choose the most op class, which scares away the beginners and new players who wont be as experienced as the "seniors". VSH 1 is undoubtedly more popular than VSH 2, and I whole-heartily believe that the !setboss has been the downfall of the VSH population. Yes, theres been more players on recently, however I think that spike is down to the quarantine, and will start to decline once lock down ends. I find a lot of new players dont even know the !setboss command exists in the first place, and they are still regularly playing with a random boss.

 

[MrLupin]

That's completely fair, and everyone is entitled to their opinion, but not only without !setboss it would be a 1/6 chance of getting Trolldier, if they think they are bad at Trolldier and need improvement, the most logical thing to do would instead learn by playing the class instead of changing to another, more op class. In VSH 1, the !setboss command wasn't a thing, and I found that people were "!resetq"ing a lot less. I think this is down to people who pick and choose the most op class, which scares away the beginners and new players who wont be as experienced as the "seniors". VSH 1 is undoubtedly more popular than VSH 2, and I whole-heartily believe that the !setboss has been the downfall of the VSH population. Yes, theres been more players on recently, however I think that spike is down to the quarantine, and will start to decline once lock down ends. I find a lot of new players dont even know the !setboss command exists in the first place, and they are still regularly playing with a random boss.

I agree with some of your statement, but I am still standing with my -1. Yes, new players don't know that !setboss exist but maybe if there is a reminder that mentions !setboss and explains it, then I would kinda understand your point. Also the idea to "learn by playing the class instead of changing to another, more op class" is kinda defeating the point of playing the bosses in VSH. Going back to my point of Trolldier, many new players who are not experienced with Rocket Jumping would rather play anybody else but Trolldier since Trolldier is more of an advanced boss and is only really good if you can connect your market gardens. By removing !setboss, not only would we get more !noboss but for those who want to play bosses can't select their favorite bosses and may end up wasting their turn because of it, thus defeating the purpose of playing as the bosses which turns away new players. At the end of the day, I can't see myself agreeing to this because it not only turns new players away by not getting them a choice, but also it makes those who want to play a certain boss waste their turn because they didn't get the boss they wanted. Trust me, I played allot of VSH1 and VSH2 is better Quality of Life wise. So I am still sticking with my -1.

 

[Pig]

Fair enough, I understand some of your arguments, but I still stand firm in my beliefs. All different accredited opinions. All is more information and more learning and understanding to this debate. :)

 

[mub]

-1

This is one of my favorite features since VSH itself was created. I play just about all of the Hales but picking X Hale for Y Map is a lot of fun for a lot of regulars. As far as I'm aware, the appeal and excitement of playing Hale was never about the randomness-- it was about becoming the big buff guy and beating down 31 players, regulars, friends etc. to a pulp. If a player doesn't want to challenge themself then they would probably just !noboss or !resetq if !setboss didn't exist.

I understand the idea of forcing unfamiliarity on good players to create more of a challenge, but the "good hales" do not come commonly in the first place.
To roughly paraphrase Bottiger's quote on VSH statistics, for about every 20 players, half opt out, and only 1 of the other 10 win.
Removing !setboss would only make this problem worse; most regulars wouldn't want to gamble their Hale rounds away as much.
That would leave our top hale playesrs, who would likely not be slowed down very much by the removal of !setboss; I see a lot of our top players play Saxton Hale without the use of rage.

In conclusion, the removal of !setboss would increase !noboss/!resetq, and that in itself to me is not worth it. This suggestion feels like it's aimed toward a problem that we could find a better solution for.

P.S. When are people playing where the Hales are mostly CBS and Trolldier?

...the reason Trolldier and Christian Brutal Sniper (CBS) are most played are because they are the most OP (unbalanced) hales... This is my opinion, and the opinion of several regular players.

P.P.S. When are people playing where CBS and Trolldier are OP?!

 

[Italian Doctor]

-1
I wouldn't want to play CBS on Blu and I wouldn't want to play Pyro on Red.

 

[Pig]

-1

This is one of my favorite features since VSH itself was created. I play just about all of the Hales but picking X Hale for Y Map is a lot of fun for a lot of regulars. As far as I'm aware, the appeal and excitement of playing Hale was never about the randomness-- it was about becoming the big buff guy and beating down 31 players, regulars, friends etc. to a pulp. If a player doesn't want to challenge themself then they would probably just !noboss or !resetq if !setboss didn't exist.

I understand the idea of forcing unfamiliarity on good players to create more of a challenge, but the "good hales" do not come commonly in the first place.
To roughly paraphrase Bottiger's quote on VSH statistics, for about every 20 players, half opt out, and only 1 of the other 10 win.
Removing !setboss would only make this problem worse; most regulars wouldn't want to gamble their Hale rounds away as much.
That would leave our top hale playesrs, who would likely not be slowed down very much by the removal of !setboss; I see a lot of our top players play Saxton Hale without the use of rage.

In conclusion, the removal of !setboss would increase !noboss/!resetq, and that in itself to me is not worth it. This suggestion feels like it's aimed toward a problem that we could find a better solution for.

P.S. When are people playing where the Hales are mostly CBS and Trolldier?



P.P.S. When are people playing where CBS and Trolldier are OP?!

That's actually really interesting and has swayed me a slight further to the antipode. The statistic about "per every 20 players, half opt out" would indeed worsen the problem if !setboss was infact removed, and having reflected on this; the likelyhood of players !resetq"ing" would indeed rise.
It's not often someone can change my mind that quickly, so a humble "congratulations" towards you, Sir.

"P.S When are people playing where the Hales are mostly CBS and Trolldier"
You will find (in SAXTON HALE EU, where I play) that the experienced players will main the bosses of CBS and Trolldier. I believe this is to do with the fact that these two bosses have a slight advantage of having a projectile or even a shotgun which can 2 hit. It's actually come to the point where people are calling Trolldier "The Tryhard Boss" in VSH EU.
Having had some informative and factual comments on this thread, I do come to believe that the !setboss command would not cure the dilemma, instead somewhat nerfing the Trolldier or CBS would be a better remedy.
"P.P.S. When are people playing where CBS and Trolldier are OP?!"
Join a VSH EU server and ask the community if they do find the Trolldier indeed, overpowered; the majority would be ayes.

However, thanks for your input everyone, it's much appreciated; my beliefs have been shifted, and I believe that the !setboss removal would be problematic and thorny.
I wont be replying to this thread anymore.

Have a super day.
Pig.

 

[soos]

-1

 

[Slip]

-1