New [Surf] Re-add lament, quack, nameless, crater, halloween, and remove air_arena and ravine.

Cry0nix

Cry0nix

Uncharitable Spy
The general consensus of the community seems to dislike the removal of the 5 maps listed, for a multitude of reasons:
Lament: Beautiful visuals and a decent surf. (@poobles)
Halloween: Good surf and jail, spells included.
Crater: A great collection of surfs, increasing in difficulty, as well as a good jail (@surfing cyanide and @Communist (Doots) Door)
Nameless: Great varying surf to begin learning harder-tiered maps, as well as a jail full of changing dynamics, from engineer camping to rocket jumping around to flooding the place with pyros. (@Atomic Betty and @Tango Mike Mike)
Quack: A good surf, and a jail with spread out objectives that some will fight relentlessly over, and incentivizes using surf ramps around the jail. (@Ishu Obi)

As for why I (and others in the community) believe Air Arena and Ravine should be removed:
Air Arena has little to no substance in terms of a surf map: No music, no main surf course for surfers who don't care about combat, and the only secret is a room that leads you to either spawn to spawncamp. In terms of a map that's only a jail, there are better jail-starting maps that seem to be more played and enjoyed, such as Overlook and Venice. The main reasons this map gets played at all is if nobody nominates any maps, and it comes up as a default, or if it's nominated and voted for as a troll against the rest of the server. (@Ishu Obi again.)

Ravine has many problems that outweigh its pros: Spawns are not separated, which inherently means infinite spawncamping. The map's surroundings at spawn are also extremely traversable, so snipers can simply hike to a far away spot, free to camp spawn until they're sniped back, and the cycle continues. If there were no spawn protection, this map would be hell to even attempt to get to the start of the surf. Speaking of the surf, it's only a T1, which upon completion, puts you back at spawn, back into whatever is happening at spawn, which leaves you prone to being thrown back into being spawncamped. All 4 bonuses are extremely short, simple, and have no incentive to do them in the first place. The only secret in the map is a hidden door to a room, which advertises three maps, not in rotation, and has nothing else inside of it functionality wise. (@LizzieSteph)
 
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Cry0nix said:
The general consensus of the community seems to dislike the removal of the 5 maps listed, for a multitude of reasons:
Lament: Beautiful visuals and a decent surf. (@poobles)
Halloween: Good surf and jail, spells included.
Crater: A great collection of surfs, increasing in difficulty, as well as a good jail (@OmegaMalkior and @Communist (Doots) Door)
Nameless: Great varying surf to begin learning harder-tiered maps, as well as a jail full of changing dynamics, from engineer camping to rocket jumping around to flooding the place with pyros. (@Atomic Betty and @Tango Mike Mike)
Quack: A good surf, and a jail with spread out objectives that some will fight relentlessly over, and incentivizes using surf ramps around the jail. (@Ishu Obi)

As for why I (and others in the community) believe Air Arena and Ravine should be removed:
Air Arena has little to no substance in terms of a surf map: No music, no main surf course for surfers who don't care about combat, and the only secret is a room that leads you to either spawn to spawncamp. In terms of a map that's only a jail, there are better jail-starting maps that seem to be more played and enjoyed, such as Overlook and Venice. The main reasons this map gets played at all is if nobody nominates any maps, and it comes up as a default, or if it's nominated and voted for as a troll against the rest of the server. (@Ishu Obi again.)

Ravine has many problems that outweigh its pros: Spawns are not separated, which inherently means infinite spawncamping. The map's surroundings at spawn are also extremely traversable, so snipers can simply hike to a far away spot, free to camp spawn until they're sniped back, and the cycle continues. If there were no spawn protection, this map would be hell to even attempt to get to the start of the surf. Speaking of the surf, it's only a T1, which upon completion, puts you back at spawn, back into whatever is happening at spawn, which leaves you prone to being thrown back into being spawncamped. All 4 bonuses are extremely short, simple, and have no incentive to do them in the first place. The only secret in the map is a hidden door to a room, which advertises three maps, not in rotation, and has nothing else inside of it functionality wise.
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Yea honestly all maps should be brought back, I wish bottiger genuinly communicated face to face with the skills surf community with out just jumping to conclusion, especially since the maps he removed were fairly popular like nameless and quack. Guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens
 
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At the very least; Quack is a more enjoyable "Combat Surf" in comparison to Air Arena. More dynamic jail, with more skill expression across the surf, with Troldier and Sticky jumpers able to have more vertical and fun.

Lament is a surf with a fun map and a fun jail escape system, with the tiered jail rewards allowing newer surfers to jump off early at a reward scale that fits their level of skill. While I've only personally beaten the main surf twice, having done so feels like a solid accomplishment, and the stopping points prevents newer surfers from feeling too discouraged as they can still get some advantage after they master a section.

Halloween seems to actually be somewhat unpopular but I like its vibe. I could live without it, personally; the spells gimmick is okay. I wouldn't say no to this one being only in rotation during October or something.

Nameless was one that was difficult, and the jail was a little cramped feeling, personally, but I welcomed the challenge, despite having yet to complete it.

As for Crater, the 4 star still has me struggling with it, but the jail was enjoyable, and the ability to select your own difficulty was nice.

If we're only allowed one, my vote is on Quack. Then Lament.
 
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Also yea surf ravine has got to go, it severed its purpose reving the server but it's all dried out. Not much to even do in there anways, same applies to air arena, since overlook does a better job at replacing air arena
 
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+1 I believe all of the maps removed play an important part in the skill development of surf players who only know/surf on the server (me being one who could relate to that), and having more options to do so keeps the process of improving fun and interesting. Any of the removed maps add more value to both the surfing and arena experience than air_arena or ravine.
 
+1 The server is not the same with these maps they are all fun I also really liked Namelees and Ravine and all of the maps please bring them all back
 
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-1 I'd rather have these maps stay removed than have air and ravine removed
 
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I agree with Cry here.

Air Arena is like a restaurant with no food or chef. Sure it has tables and chairs, but it's missing what makes a restaurant a restaurant, the food (an actual surf beyond the jail). Surfs like Overlook and Venice let people play Team Deathmatch, while allowing others to surf an actual course if/when they want to. Air arena doesn't allow that. Functionally, when Air Arena is on, you might as well rename the server to Team Deathmatch, as there's literally nothing else to do besides that, or quit the server until map change. No other map gives that kind of feeling to surfers.

Ravine is honestly a clusterfuck given how the spawn is setup. It was not designed for the kind of server surf skial is.
 
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