Serious Suggestion/Discussion - Use of "nigga"

[hXcjedders]

I'm sure I'm going to catch a lot of flak for this, but I just wanted to have an open discussion among current Skialites about this being branched under racism.

Now, don't get me wrong, I understand full well why it is there and why it can be considered racist. My question is, is it being oversensitive? When was the last time anyone was actually offended by the word?

I don't have any particular reason that I think it HAS to be allowed, but there's a lot of criticism out there of Skial that it's just being oversensitive to have it being a punishable offense. My personal opinion is that I don't find it in itself to be racist to use the word, since most of the time it is referring to "a friend" or "another guy."

I'm just trying to understand on why it was decided to throw this word under racism in the first place. Now like I said, I'm not dumb, this is a thought provoking topic. I am hoping to have an elevated discussion on this where people argue with actual reasoning and not cookie cutter answers such as "It has always been against the rules so therefore it's bad," or the whole "it will open the floodgates" argument. I think it's quite simple to allow use of "nigga" while barring use of "nigger."

I personally have seen Skial mods use it outside of Skial servers and while I know what happens elsewhere isn't governed by Skial rules, obviously some people don't have a problem with using it.

To be short, I find that it borders upon unreasonable to punish for nigga and leave every other insult in the book that isn't racial open for business, especially when in most cases nigga isn't even intended to be insulting. I do care about Skial's image and I hear a great deal of griping on how people perceive us to be oversensitive.

Please keep comments and arguments in a civil manner, I am willing to be proven wrong on this issue, it's just that as I said before, I want people to stop and think about how they actually feel about the word before they respond, not just cite the rules and say "bad." I would also hope that some of our more zealous mods will allow this discussion to continue in a civil manner and not lock it immediately.

 

[mittens]

In which cases mods could use their judgement to strike justice upon those who use it in a racist manner.

I mean, quite honestly to me it seems silly that I am arguing for a potentially racist term, but then again its such a widely used term that people have it engrained in their day to day speech that sometimes accidents happen, someone says nigga in nothing but a friendly term, and gets banned for it.

To be honest in terms of having to argue with the person being banned over racism issues I don't really think there should be much discussion. Fuck the kids who want to be edgy and argue their bans based on "oh, i didn't mean it like that." Everyone knows racism when they see it, people aren't stupid.

Then this will go down:

"Well Bob was saying 'nigga' how come was I muted for saying 'nigga'? and he wasn't?"
"You were using it in a racist way..."
"Says who? Define it in racist context and non-racist context"
"etc..."
"etc."
"......"

We already have the problem with griefing and people who want to have a 50 page PDF on the difference between a trolldier and a sewer party on 2fort. Not gonna have the same dumb argument with people over racial slur.

Besides they aren't banned now they are comm blocked... they have 4 tries to figure out not to use and form of N-word before it's permanent plus any warnings they might receive. I think that's simple enough.

 

[hXcjedders]

Then this will go down:

"Well Bob was saying 'nigga' how come was I muted for saying 'nigga'? and he wasn't?"
"You were using it in a racist way..."
"Says who? Define it in racist context and non-racist context"
"etc..."
"etc."
"......"

We already have the problem with griefing and people who want to have a 50 page PDF on the difference between a trolldier and a sewer party on 2fort. Not gonna have the same dumb argument with people over racial slur.

Besides they aren't banned now they are comm blocked... they have 4 tries to figure out not to use and form of N-word before it's permanent plus any warnings they might receive. I think that's simple enough.

Part of me agrees with you, but I just don't see the harm in telling someone, "that's how it is, if you don't understand, tough shit." A great deal of the time people know exactly what they're doing and just pushing the envelope.

 

[Party Chocobo]

Can't we just be white and say 'Bro' and get along?

 

[JohnnyGaloshes]

As much as i am 100% in agreement with you Jedder, i can also see where the admins are coming from. I could care less if a person says it, and "most" of the time you can tell what context it is being said or typed in. But, the Admins have enough to worry about than to decipher and analyze the way a word was said. So they say "All forms of the word is bannable offense". Just saves a lot of endless BS threads later.

 

[hXcjedders]

As much as i am 100% in agreement with you Jedder, i can also see where the admins are coming from. I could care less if a person says it, and "most" of the time you can tell what context it is being said or typed in. But, the Admins have enough to worry about than to decipher and analyze the way a word was said. So they say "All forms of the word is bannable offense". Just saves a lot of endless BS threads later.

I know, I know, but if I said I agreed with them on that, there would be no counter argument. I am just submitting an alternative thought process. I understand full well why it's banned, but I want to challenge that a bit because I hear a lot of people complaining about Skial admins being too sensitive. Just trying to open up new avenues of leniency is all.

 

[JohnnyGaloshes]

I know, I know, but if I said I agreed with them on that, there would be no counter argument. I am just submitting an alternative thought process. I understand full well why it's banned, but I want to challenge that a bit because I hear a lot of people complaining about Skial admins being too sensitive. Just trying to open up new avenues of leniency is all.

I don't think it's "Skial admins", i think it's "Certain Skial admins".

 

[[YDEK] fi$hy k!tty]

Personally, I think that the non-racist parts of the rule could use more addressing. Gender, religion, orientation, etc. Those are often completely overlooked, and that's if they're even reported.

 

[hXcjedders]

Personally, I think that the non-racist parts of the rule could use more addressing. Gender, religion, orientation, etc. Those are often completely overlooked, and that's if they're even reported.

I've always felt this was necessary, because all it seems we ban for (well comm block now) is racism towards black people. Some mods have flat out said that they don't give two shits about orientation discrimination and I don't think that's right.

 

[[S.I.B.] Wolf Princess Von Toto]

I know, I know, but if I said I agreed with them on that, there would be no counter argument. I am just submitting an alternative thought process. I understand full well why it's banned, but I want to challenge that a bit because I hear a lot of people complaining about Skial admins being too sensitive. Just trying to open up new avenues of leniency is all.

It's not about whether skial admins are being too sensitive its about the players on the servers attempting to use loopholes. Example, Negus when typed it doesn't sound like much, when type in a sentence negus negus negus my negus, its being racist because the person is just using a written term for an ethiopian king, which when pronounced sounds like the word nigga. Which even going by your wiki definition is only a colloquial reference to the word nigger. Some may argue that even nigger isn't a racist term but just general derogatory term for a lazy person. Truthfully you have no argument on whether or not the word nigga should be allowed to be used on servers because it's still racist since when people read things in chat they can't take the context of what was said, also wikipedia isn't a valid source for a definition and its just a shortened version for a racial slur.

 

[Smokey]

Still think we need a filter for nigger/nigga and turn it into "silly willy"

 

[[S.I.B.] Wolf Princess Von Toto]

Still think we need a filter for nigger/nigga and turn it into "silly willy"

doesn't stop people from using their microphone to say it

 

[Smokey]

doesn't stop people from using their microphone to say it

Well yes, but that will always be a problem.

 

[Mathias]

Part of me agrees with you, but I just don't see the harm in telling someone, "that's how it is, if you don't understand, tough shit." A great deal of the time people know exactly what they're doing and just pushing the envelope.

That's kind of contradicting yourself. If an Admin were to tell somebody in the server, "That's how it is. If you don't understand, tough shit" then the same response could be said here on your thread.

By the way, I for one love debates. They are a healthy form of expressing ones opinion.

 

[hXcjedders]

It's not about whether skial admins are being too sensitive its about the players on the servers attempting to use loopholes. Example, Negus when typed it doesn't sound like much, when type in a sentence negus negus negus my negus, its being racist because the person is just using a written term for an ethiopian king, which when pronounced sounds like the word nigga. Which even going by your wiki definition is only a colloquial reference to the word nigger. Some may argue that even nigger isn't a racist term but just general derogatory term for a lazy person. Truthfully you have no argument on whether or not the word nigga should be allowed to be used on servers because it's still racist since when people read things in chat they can't take the context of what was said, also wikipedia isn't a valid source for a definition and its just a shortened version for a racial slur.

As I have said before, I understand this point but I just don't get why admins can't point blank ban with discretion. If they come and complain, just explain your reasoning and be done with it. These aren't people who are generally going to be able to be rationally dealt with anyways. You are correct though and I did state in the original post that there's no real NEED per se to allow the word.

As a side note that could be argued into eternity, Wikipedia is fine and valid. College professors are dumb about it because, yes, it can be edited at any point but if you visit it multiple times and get the same information, chances are you're getting correct information. For every person that likes to deface wikipedia, there are equal amounts who browse it and angrily correct the most minor mistakes. Furthermore, I don't trust dictionaries with slang words because like I said they're written by uptight people who require an amount of red tape to be processed to get slang into the dictionary and by that time it's completely outdated. I'd trust Urban Dictionary over Webster's for slang anyday.

 

[[S.I.B.] Wolf Princess Von Toto]

As I have said before, I understand this point but I just don't get why admins can't point blank ban with discretion. If they come and complain, just explain your reasoning and be done with it. These aren't people who are generally going to be able to be rationally dealt with anyways. You are correct though and I did state in the original post that there's no real NEED per se to allow the word.

As a side note that could be argued into eternity, Wikipedia is fine and valid. College professors are dumb about it because, yes, it can be edited at any point but if you visit it multiple times and get the same information, chances are you're getting correct information. For every person that likes to deface wikipedia, there are equal amounts who browse it and angrily correct the most minor mistakes. Furthermore, I don't trust dictionaries with slang words because like I said they're written by uptight people who require an amount of red tape to be processed to get slang into the dictionary and by that time it's completely outdated. I'd trust Urban Dictionary over Webster's for slang anyday.

From a college stand point and having two parents as teachers wikipedia isn't a valid source because anyone at anytime can go in and edit things to have it the way they want i.e. a couple of years ago when someone changed the elephant page to say that they were extinct. While it does have some valid information, some of it can be skewed to the thoughts of the writer. Also i use urban dictionary when checking on terms to ban for since it has most of the synonyms for racial terms i.e. nigle which direct definition is a baby nigger....

 

[mittens]

...it can be skewed to the thoughts of the writer.

That can be said for anything ever written and is often the case.

 

[bluehawk]

The word it self isn't racist it's how you use it which makes it racist. The word Jew can be racist or even saying white boy but admins don't ban for that. So I think admins should only ban if the individual was racist and not taking the word itself out of context.

 

[JohnnyGaloshes]

I just heard about 30 minutes of the word "Nigger" in about 7 different terms on Hightower. As always it's from the TPS and #KAKA/gang, but still. So, it's just gonna keep happening :/

 

[hXcjedders]

Let me ask this. Say someone calls me a cracka or a polack. If I report them, would it constitute a comms block? Even though I don't give two shits, I'd like to know what's held up as racism.

 

[JohnnyGaloshes]

Let me ask this. Say someone calls me a cracka or a polack. If I report them, would it constitute a comms block? Even though I don't give two shits, I'd like to know what's held up as racism.

No because that isn't considered to be offensive. We don't make enough stink about it to make it offensive :)