Approved Remove "s2u" From New Trade Rules

[courtsnort♩♪♫♬]

The recent trade rule suggestion that was passed had mostly valid changes in it, except one glaring issue that was heavily opposed yet still passsd through. I'm suggesting and looking for support to remove this bullet from the trade rules:

• Begging, including trading series like "Scrap To Unusual" or asking for donations is considered Spam.

Scrap2Unusual has been a thing for years now, and does not do the servers any harm. It is a valid description of ones journey trading up from a piece of scrap metal to an unusual. I fail to see how that's spam. I myself have more time on Skials Trade servers than most others here, and making a valid trade exercise against the rules is nonsensical and will move our Trade servers in the entirely wrong direction. Very few people actually complete trades on our servers lately, and cutting out such a large part of the traders who actually DO complete trades is just beyond me.

People who occasionally ask for donations without spamming it should also not be considered spam. You are entitled to keep your items and not donate them to people, just as others are entitled to receive help from those who wish to help them build up their inventory, thus increasing trade activity on the servers. Scrap2Unusual is not just begging for free things, don't confuse the two. Advertising a valid trade method and including "also taking donations" after advertising that you are BUYING or SELLING items doesn't do anyone any harm and isn't begging or spamming.

 

[courtsnort♩♪♫♬]

This just in: simply saying you want to trade up to an unusual means you're begging and spamming

 

[courtsnort♩♪♫♬]

How is that a troll statement? You literally just stated that stating your goal is begging

 

[BBQ Prophet]

I see that you're avoiding the central point to the entire argument. The only reason to announce a S2U is for begging purposes; case in point.
Please post any additional skullduggery in Unmod and keep this thread relevant.

 

[courtsnort♩♪♫♬]

I am completely on topic, the topic of this thread is Scrap2unusual

 

[Bottiger]

I have not traded TF2 items myself in a very long time but what BBQ Prophet described to me sounds very much like begging.

One simple google search shows a youtube video where everyone in the comments are saying the person is just getting stuff for free and that no one would ever consider the trades to be fair. As if you could legitimately go from 1 scrap to an unusual in 1 day or even a reasonable amount of time without spending real money.

• I would like to see him do this series AGAIN and pretend he's just a random TF2 Player. The generosity of the people in this video is unreal.
• The level of generosity in this video is unreal. If I tried to do this people would just fucking yell at me through Voice chat. :(
• That is not trading, that's getting free stuff for nothing.
• "Buying a key 9 ref" I remember those days ;-;
• and whenever i ask for 1 scrap... people talk shit about me :´(

If you disagree, please provide examples of why it is not.

 

[courtsnort♩♪♫♬]

Like previously stated, receiving donations is not begging. They advertised simple buying/selling blurbs and people CHOSE to donate to a YouTuber. Regular traders aren't YouTubers, and stating that you're selling or buying something is the exact opposite of begging for free items. Just type "scrap2unusual" into the filter on Trade servers and the majority of people saying they're doing it say so after advertising a valid trade. People choosing to donate doesn't make the latter a beggar

 

[Silver Ag]

if the guy didn't use voice chat to admit he's making a youtube video about getting an unusual in a day and make history then nobody would have given him free stuff. There's obviously a goal in wanting to appear in the video when they gave him free stuff.

 

[courtsnort♩♪♫♬]

And with Trade servers already degrading in terms of traffic, do you really think banning/gagging for such a simple universal term is going to do anything but make traffic even more scarce? I think you're both neglecting to realize that the majority of people in Trade servers don't even trade there. They just stay there to hangout or bullshit around. Eliminating a large part of the handful of people who actually still trade on our servers is a step in the entirely wrong direction

 

[BBQ Prophet]

And with Trade servers already degrading in terms of traffic, do you really think banning/gagging for such a simple universal term is going to do anything but make traffic even more scarce? I think you're both neglecting to realize that the majority of people in Trade servers don't even trade there. They just stay there to hangout or bullshit around. Eliminating a large part of the handful of people who actually still trade on our servers is a step in the entirely wrong direction

You fail to acknowledge the distinct possibility the S2U is a huge factor in the "degradation of our Trade Servers' traffic". Other servers that don't allow it don't seem to have such a problem, yet you make no admission about that as if we're all to assume everyone's just gotten bored of TF2 like you.
Again:

Scrap To Unusual is trying to get stuff, right? So name one reason to announce it besides trying to get special treatment in the pursuit of stuff.
It is begging.

 

[Bottiger]

As I understand it, the entire concept of S2U is to guilt people into helping a new player (which might not be the case) and give you trades biased in your favor.

If the entire trade server is filled with people only there for uneven trade handouts, the server is dead already, just like a server full of beggars.

People are free to trade in this way still, just without advertising that they are trying to go from a scrap to unusual . Maybe we can just allow them to have the tag in their name, but nothing more.

 

[courtsnort♩♪♫♬]

In my years on the servers, I have never seen anyone leave the server because someone else said "Scrap2unusual"

I have, however, witnessed people leave due to the majority of the server not participating in trading, leave due to vote abuse on people who just advertise their trades, and leave because people harass them for using the harmless words that this thread is about.

 

[Silver Ag]

well, trading is psychological. Trading isn't about making even but profit instead.

 

[Bottiger]

Let's say the server is filled with 90% S2U players. Would you want to stay there if no one was giving away easy trades and you had to compete with all these other S2U? If you are one of the whales giving away easy trades, how long would you want to stay there? How long can you keep up the freebies?

If you are a fair trader, why would you want to join this server where most of the interaction is between beggars and whales?

If S2U has plagued our servers, we either get rid of it now even if it means taking a hit to player count, or they will kill the server anyway.

 

[ToTeM]

i would prefer you probably taking a look for yourself or asking other traders if this is the scourge BBQ makes it out to be rather than go by his biased terms, most disagreed with this rule for good reason

 

[Silver Ag]

why are S2U suddenly considered such a taboo thing. In the past f2p were marked f2p, yet the server remain filled. But now S2U are automatically bad because some outliers given free stuff to a youtuber and are now under the assumption that they do not providing decent and fair offers and only want stuff cheaper than others? fuck it, let ban people who looks for quick sell only stuff too, they want stuff like 30% cheaper.

 

[Bottiger]

why are S2U suddenly considered such a taboo thing. In the past f2p were marked f2p, yet the server remain filled. But now S2U are automatically bad because some outliers given free stuff to a youtuber and are now under the assumption that they do not providing decent and fair offers and only want stuff cheaper than others? fuck it, let ban people who looks for quick sell only stuff too, they want stuff like 30% cheaper.

Because we can detect F2P and kick them automatically when the servers filled.

Also please explain what an S2U trader provides that a regular trader does not. Why bother advertising that you are S2U if you are not looking for freebie trades?

 

[courtsnort♩♪♫♬]

If I owned Trade servers, I would want people who advertised trades in the server. The majority of s2u traders have things that they actively buy and sell because they know that they aren't youtubers and won't get unusuals solely on donations. People like Silver and myself who have actually had success trading should be credited more than a TF2 admin who spams binds while AFK and has shown to have made little to no progress in trading, and has demonstrated to not understand things such as what s2u is and how to file a valid scam report

 

[courtsnort♩♪♫♬]

Advertising that you're doing scrap2unusual before stating what you have for sale is no different than someone simply stating "hey I'm trying to get a Scorching Flames Sole Mate, so I'm selling some lower tier stuff so I can eventually get it. Feel free to trade me to see what I'm selling"

 

[courtsnort♩♪♫♬]

Now, if they just go "I'm doing scrap2unusual plzzzzz give free items" that's one thing. But the majority do not do that.

 

[Silver Ag]

Because we can detect F2P and kick them automatically when the servers filled.

But if people are going to leave the trade server because S2U then people would do the same if they saw like 6 players marked f2p on a server with let say 18 people; not full enough to kick f2p but not too empty. I rather have S2U than f2p in that case because not all S2U are expecting to get a good deal in 100% of the trade they make. Why are f2p only being kicked but people who are actually trying to trade even if you disagree with the method being punished more severely by getting gagged for 24 hours or more?