Approved Remove "s2u" From New Trade Rules

[courtsnort♩♪♫♬]

The recent trade rule suggestion that was passed had mostly valid changes in it, except one glaring issue that was heavily opposed yet still passsd through. I'm suggesting and looking for support to remove this bullet from the trade rules:

• Begging, including trading series like "Scrap To Unusual" or asking for donations is considered Spam.

Scrap2Unusual has been a thing for years now, and does not do the servers any harm. It is a valid description of ones journey trading up from a piece of scrap metal to an unusual. I fail to see how that's spam. I myself have more time on Skials Trade servers than most others here, and making a valid trade exercise against the rules is nonsensical and will move our Trade servers in the entirely wrong direction. Very few people actually complete trades on our servers lately, and cutting out such a large part of the traders who actually DO complete trades is just beyond me.

People who occasionally ask for donations without spamming it should also not be considered spam. You are entitled to keep your items and not donate them to people, just as others are entitled to receive help from those who wish to help them build up their inventory, thus increasing trade activity on the servers. Scrap2Unusual is not just begging for free things, don't confuse the two. Advertising a valid trade method and including "also taking donations" after advertising that you are BUYING or SELLING items doesn't do anyone any harm and isn't begging or spamming.

 

[BBQ Prophet]

At no point did I equate begging to scamming. Although I can see the parallel being drawn, my issue is that S2U just attracts more S2U and pushes serious traders away, who have better options than to listen to blatant, albeit usually implied begging, which is easily perceivable by anyone not in complete denial about the original purposes and modern interpretations of S2U. The easiest option for them is just to go to a different server without a bunch of beggars, of which there are plenty. If the absolute freedom to be as completely detrimental and antagonistic as possible is the most important thing to you, then you don't care about Skial more than you care about being an enabler to a worthless, leech mentality that has no place in a reputable community such as ours.

 

[courtsnort♩♪♫♬]

I mean sure, if you didn't read the last 3 pages at all go ahead and keep telling yourself that

 

[Sargent¥]

my issue is that S2U just attracts more S2U and pushes serious traders away

That doesn't happen. Why would one person doing something different stop another? That's nonsensical.

original purposes and modern interpretations of S2U

You have the complete wrong interpretation of S2U users, they just want to reach an end goal of getting an unusual from only a scrap to work with. Asking for donations is different from pleading for donations. If they plead, that's begging. If they ask, that's not begging that's just asking which most S2U traders do. If they do more than that, I'm fine with that being punished but do you not see how absolutely mediocre it is to punish someone for saying "hey, can I have a scrap?"? Call me crazy but I'd rather have players who ask (not plead) for items then no players at all cause I give you my 100% guarantee that if we start punishing people for S2U, they won't come back after the first punishment.

 

[Doom4life]

A notable number of people disliked the s2u part of Prophets ruleset, so that one should be removed. The rest of it can stay. Asking for donations is okay, this can be handled like the music spam rule, where a server vote can decide wether to deal with it as spam or not.

This right here. For me, a trade server is specifically to obtain or provide TF2 items. There is nothing wrong with S2U or begging, unless the player is constantly spamming it (which could be against the rules) as after all, it's up to a player to provide an item. Isn't that what the vote menu or report features are for?

Here's another suggestion, what about having times of the day or certain days of the week where it is allowed. Perhaps this would give better insight on the effects of S2U/begging?

 

[TheMiningAlex]

I'm sorry I didn't read every single post in this thread but I've got the gist of it. I am not a trader I will readily admit that now. But I do go on the trade server from time to time and when I do go on the trade server I stay for at least three hours. A fly around on the map and just bullshitt around.

@Bottiger you were saying earlier about if the server were 90% filled with S2U players. Would people stay. Not once have I ever seen the server have more than five people who were doing scrap to unusual and letting people know. I have only ever seen one person at a time on the server who is doing a scrap to unusual and wasn't advertising fair trades. Every other scrap to unusual player I have ever seen on that server always advertised fair trades. There is a difference between letting people know that you would accept donations. And asking people for them. If I see a player that says they are selling an item for a listed fair price and then they say btw I am also doing a s2u that doesn't make it feel like they are asking me to do donate. I can do their listed trade and then maybe say good luck or something. Or maybe I just do happen to feel generous and say. "You know I want to give someone something today." Now I know who I can do that for. They are still working hard. They are still making fair trades. But for people like me who somedays just say. "I have this extra thing and I want to give it to someone." Now we know who we can. But in no way does it make it feel like they expect me to give them something for free or cheap.