New Limit 1 Player Report Per User, Per Day

[Winnie]

❗DISCLAIMER❗
⚠️ I am not a member of Skial's Leadership; therefore, I do not speak on their behalf, and this may hold no value! ⚠️
❌ I do not condone the behaviors/actions that are being reported
❌ No interests are tied to this suggestion. It's entirely my own
❌ No hard feelings will be taken if there is/are disagreement(s)
❌ I am not tracking any future appeals for reasoning

Limit 1 Player Report Per User, Per Day!*
*EXCEPTION: Reports that are submitted by !votereport. This is agreed automatically by creating the room-supported vote.

👉 3 GOALS could be achieved if this suggestion is implemented 👈
​

• 1. 🎯 Prevent Weaponization of Skial’s Report System (Reduce Invalid Reports)

Reporting a player without interaction is an inefficient process. TF2 is a game, not the reporting tool!
I am not seeking retribution for my invalid report(s). I am actually rectifying preventative measures.
This could even be approached as a follow-up to my last suggestion, Update the Report System.
There is a counter-discussion to this, but that will be included in the 3rd goal.

• 2. 🎯 Lighten the Administration's Workload, Ability to Assess The Reporter's Priorities

Because let's

You guys have lives. Bottiger does too. Respect needs to be understood amongst each other from the community and the Leadership.
Being expected on demand can be tiresome, especially if there is a large backlog of reports to manage.

Reports are also a factor for those applying to be an administrator.
Evaluating how a reporter chooses their priorities and interacts with the community can provide insight. It would produce an analysis of how the potential pick could be IF they were selected for the role.
I got questioned why I refer to admins as leaders. Because I look up to y'all. It was a principle widely understood from my workplace experience as a manager.

• 3. 🎯 Incentivizes Users to Join The Forum

Back to Goal #1 above. Reporting a user once a week can be downright unrealistic. Some users arrive and violate the rules every day.
But this creates the perfect paradox for the community to resolve. Finding another user to assist and enforce Skial's principles together as a team!
If the user is truly having a negative personal experience, they will come forward to make their 1 report for the sake of betterment. This can be cancelled out if a !votereport command has been initiated. No barriers if there is a negative impact on the room. That is why the !votereport command is an exception.

If this makes you think, or oppose it, feel free to express! 🙂

Edit: Updated after further consultation.

 

[Friendly Killer]

How were they being deliberate in violating the server rules when it is the very community that establishes the standards for Skial? It's just a server, but now DR EU is gone, and trade EU could be facing the same tragedy.



Another barrier is that it is in English, not in every language for every country. Outside rules will not be recognized due to a lack of accessibility, rather than neglect. It's seizing operations for Skial and transferring the remnants to become an English clan. Unless that is the new direction for Skial, where growth is no longer of the essence?

So just let people break the rules! I think not.

 

[Winnie]

So just let people break the rules! I think not.

I never stated that people should break the rules. Music is something harmless that can be muted off from a player's ability. It can be annoying, or someone taking requests. The decision on how a player should evaluate it as an annoyance is individualized.

The culture is changing to the new community standard for Skial. And when players are gagged for something like music, it results in a net deficit to the player count. One fell into a depressive episode and hasn't gotten out for months. For taking music requests for players.

 

[Friendly Killer]

I never stated that people should break the rules. Music is something harmless that can be muted off from a player's ability. It can be annoying, or someone taking requests. The decision on how a player should evaluate it as an annoyance is individualized.

The culture is changing to the new community standard for Skial. And when players are gagged for something like music, it results in a net deficit to the player count. One fell into a depressive episode and hasn't gotten out for months. For taking music requests for player

Well, you do suggest only one report per day, in those above reports of mine would mean that 5 people get away with breaking the rules, including the guy being racist. So, what call an admin every time someone breaks the rules until the next day. 95% of these people dont care that they are breaking. They know where the rules are they just don't care.

 

[n3k();]

No no, let friendly killer talk, let him explain how to respect other people ; he really is someone who can teach us the Respect...

his whole personnality is about "not respecting friendlies" lol

200 fucking reports on his history

 

[arctic dino]

Why does there have to be needless drama over people being reported for breaking the rules?

 

[Winnie]

Well, you do suggest only one report per day, in those above reports of mine would mean that 5 people get away with breaking the rules, including the guy being racist. So, what call an admin every time someone breaks the rules until the next day. 95% of these people dont care that they are breaking. They know where the rules are they just don't care.

The barrier is that the report is supposed to be effective. If a player comes back to return doing the same thing, was the report effective? Generating a mass report out of spite isn’t going to do you well when they come back and be upset. Creates tensions for which you might be into, but it will only snowball into more animosity. (vote abuse -> server death)

1 report would be the best measure. You can include more if needed at the end of the day and be given clarification if they changed after a confrontation or not. It’s not wrong or right if more or less can be included.

 

[Friendly Killer]

The barrier is that the report is supposed to be effective. If a player comes back to return doing the same thing, was the report effective? Generating a mass report out of spite isn’t going to do you well when they come back and be upset. Creates tensions for which you might be into, but it will only snowball into more animosity. (vote abuse -> server death)

1 report would be the best measure. You can include more if needed at the end of the day and be given clarification if they changed after a confrontation or not. It’s not wrong or right if more or less can be included.

When did I generate a mass report out of "spite?" Every one of those reports was of someone breaking the rules plain and simple. As for being effective sometimes you have to hit people over the head with a hammer to get them to pay attention.

"1 report would be the best measure. You can include more if needed at the end of the day and be given clarification if they changed after a confrontation or not. It’s not wrong or right if more or less can be included."
The big difference between what you said above and what I did was I reported them while they were still in the server. And the clarification is in the report.

 

[Winnie]

When did I generate a mass report out of "spite?" Every one of those reports was of someone breaking the rules plain and simple. As for being effective sometimes you have to hit people over the head with a hammer to get them to pay attention.

"1 report would be the best measure. You can include more if needed at the end of the day and be given clarification if they changed after a confrontation or not. It’s not wrong or right if more or less can be included."
The big difference between what you said above and what I did was I reported them while they were still in the server. And the clarification is in the report.

The server didn't suffer from what was done, thankfully. Did you follow up on the server?

This suggestion is solely to protect you from concerns of report spam. Literally. That is it.

 

[kilometer666]

I'm surprised that these people take this game more seriously than ksi ( ° ͜ʖ °)

 

[Friendly Killer]

The server didn't suffer from what was done, thankfully. Did you follow up on the server?

This suggestion is solely to protect you from concerns of report spam. Literally. That is it.

No I didn't follow up on the server. They probably left after they got punished. That is normal.

The server didn't suffer from what was done, thankfully. Did you follow up on the server?

This suggestion is solely to protect you from concerns of report spam. Literally. That is it.

As for "This suggestion is solely to protect you from concerns of report spam," well it's not report spam when I'm in the server when these infactions occur. It's no difference than say if gala entered the server and started muting people.
Look I understand your concern about players leaving skial because of being punished. Most people are get pissed off when they find out they have been punished, and go to reddits or steam to bash and lie about what happened to them. I try to go and support skial when I can.
The idiot that went through 2 months of chat log awhile back to report players didn't help skial at all. It is why I only report players when I am in the server. Friends message me about someone I go in server to see what is happening.

I hope I didn't give you the impression that I was trying to bash you if I did I apologize, we both want to help skial.

 

[Ghost Bird]

I think part of your idea is that the limitation on reports will reduce the number of players who get punished for breaking the rules, and will hypothetically increase player retention. It's not a bad idea numbers wise, but you're talking about increasing Skial's playerbase by keeping rulebreakers around longer. In reality, under the current system, if a player gets punished for breaking the rules, it is on them to decide whether they enjoy Skial enough to stay around after being punished. Changing the report system won't change rulebreakers' mindsets.

I think there are 3 types of rulebreakers in question here, each with differing mindsets.

1. Players who break a rule, accept their punishment, learn their lesson, return to the server and don't break anymore rules.
2. Players who break a rule, get punished, and don't bother returning to the community after the punishment.
3. Players who break rules for the lolz.

I'm part of group 1.

About a year or so ago, I got banned for using the soldier taunt exploit on 2fort. I genuinely didn't realize that was against the rules, but I enjoy playing Skial enough that I took the ban, didn't complain, and just came back when it was over. I'm sure there are many Skial players like me who share this experience. A genuine misunderstanding/accident/whatever, but they return to the server and know better.

Players in group 3 ultimately get banned for a long time, if not !permabanned. (Good riddance).

The real discussion here, IMO, is about group 2. Your suggestion seems to revolve around people in group 2 who are edge cases. Is muting someone for playing a 5-second audio clip a reasonable punishment? Maybe. Maybe not. But I think the solution you are looking for perhaps involves rewriting the rules so that the wording eliminates edge cases and ambiguity. Explicitly state whether 5-second audio clips are allowed, and to what extent (e.g., is more than twice in 1 minute to be considered spam? What should be the hard line? Should there even be a line?).

Some members of group 2 are worth trying to keep around. Maybe they (like me) do the soldier exploit taunt, get banned, and never bother returning. Maybe they play too many 5-second audio clips and get a mute. These are the players I do think it is worth trying to keep around. On the other hand, players who are being racist, or are hacking, I don't think it's worth trying to keep them around. We don't want them in our community. Full stop. So why limit players' ability to report these people? Ultimately, if the offense is eggregious enough, it isn't hard to get around the report limit by simply vote reporting. Often times you don't even have to talk to other players on the server to get them to !votereport with you. They just do it because they too are annoyed but don't want to log on to the forum. (Lookin' at you, Salty!) So, your assertion that limiting reports would drive player connection is sorta just a moot point (respectfully). I'm not really gonna bond with someone because we both report a hacker. I'm just gonna pray an admin gets on the server quick enough to get rid of the problem.

You also say that this could reduce admin workload. I think that this suggestion would just be a net-zero on admin workload at best, and a net-negative at worst. Yes, less reports to manage, but on the flip side, admins will undoubtedly receive many more reports via steam DMs or DMs on this forum, which just adds a layer of work because a DM report doesn't necessarily need to follow the report guidelines (Compare a DM like - "Hey [admin], there is a player on the server who is spamming." versus a full fledged report on the forum that contains all the accused person's details, and comes with proof built-in, so the admin may not even have much investigating to do).

In fact, forum reports may even be less taxing because the admin team can simply mark a report as invalid if it does not include proof. No further investigation required.

So... overall... I'd have to disagree with this suggestion! I can definitely see where you're coming from, but I don't think this would have the effects you think it would.

 

[muffinman80]

-1 Absolutely not

 

[arctic dino]

-1

If there's multiple rule breakers at once on a server then a a single person has a right to report all of them if no one else is reporting them.
As long it's not prokid bullshit of course.

 

[Blade D_Hero]

I think part of your idea is that the limitation on reports will reduce the number of players who get punished for breaking the rules, and will hypothetically increase player retention. It's not a bad idea numbers wise, but you're talking about increasing Skial's playerbase by keeping rulebreakers around longer. In reality, under the current system, if a player gets punished for breaking the rules, it is on them to decide whether they enjoy Skial enough to stay around after being punished. Changing the report system won't change rulebreakers' mindsets.

I think there are 3 types of rulebreakers in question here, each with differing mindsets.

1. Players who break a rule, accept their punishment, learn their lesson, return to the server and don't break anymore rules.
2. Players who break a rule, get punished, and don't bother returning to the community after the punishment.
3. Players who break rules for the lolz.

I'm part of group 1.

About a year or so ago, I got banned for using the soldier taunt exploit on 2fort. I genuinely didn't realize that was against the rules, but I enjoy playing Skial enough that I took the ban, didn't complain, and just came back when it was over. I'm sure there are many Skial players like me who share this experience. A genuine misunderstanding/accident/whatever, but they return to the server and know better.

Players in group 3 ultimately get banned for a long time, if not !permabanned. (Good riddance).

The real discussion here, IMO, is about group 2. Your suggestion seems to revolve around people in group 2 who are edge cases. Is muting someone for playing a 5-second audio clip a reasonable punishment? Maybe. Maybe not. But I think the solution you are looking for perhaps involves rewriting the rules so that the wording eliminates edge cases and ambiguity. Explicitly state whether 5-second audio clips are allowed, and to what extent (e.g., is more than twice in 1 minute to be considered spam? What should be the hard line? Should there even be a line?).

Some members of group 2 are worth trying to keep around. Maybe they (like me) do the soldier exploit taunt, get banned, and never bother returning. Maybe they play too many 5-second audio clips and get a mute. These are the players I do think it is worth trying to keep around. On the other hand, players who are being racist, or are hacking, I don't think it's worth trying to keep them around. We don't want them in our community. Full stop. So why limit players' ability to report these people? Ultimately, if the offense is eggregious enough, it isn't hard to get around the report limit by simply vote reporting. Often times you don't even have to talk to other players on the server to get them to !votereport with you. They just do it because they too are annoyed but don't want to log on to the forum. (Lookin' at you, Salty!) So, your assertion that limiting reports would drive player connection is sorta just a moot point (respectfully). I'm not really gonna bond with someone because we both report a hacker. I'm just gonna pray an admin gets on the server quick enough to get rid of the problem.

You also say that this could reduce admin workload. I think that this suggestion would just be a net-zero on admin workload at best, and a net-negative at worst. Yes, less reports to manage, but on the flip side, admins will undoubtedly receive many more reports via steam DMs or DMs on this forum, which just adds a layer of work because a DM report doesn't necessarily need to follow the report guidelines (Compare a DM like - "Hey [admin], there is a player on the server who is spamming." versus a full fledged report on the forum that contains all the accused person's details, and comes with proof built-in, so the admin may not even have much investigating to do).

In fact, forum reports may even be less taxing because the admin team can simply mark a report as invalid if it does not include proof. No further investigation required.

So... overall... I'd have to disagree with this suggestion! I can definitely see where you're coming from, but I don't think this would have the effects you think it would.

Skial post of the year, my thoughts exactly.

-1

 

[Jebus]

-1

I'm not going to get into the notion of passing off any notion of being selective of who needs to be reported. If more than one individual is involved with any server rules. skial has had these rules posted and it is incumbent of our community visitors to take heed of them. At any time I've played, I don't see in text chat !rules being raised. I would surmise either they know the server rules or they don't. Or simply ignore them to see what shit and giggles they can get away with. This afternoon, I've had another individual call me out verbally for being a " fucking snitch" Doesn't bother me even though they try to portray themselves off as an attention seeker. Makes efforts to seek like minded players to also exhibit the same "immature behavior". It's easy for them to hide behind their computers and show the world how to perpetuate and manipulate others with what they can get away with. Anyways, in conclusion, there will always be ingame personality clashes and other reasons for one's actions. It's up to all of us including myself to try and be respectful of the host community rules. Thanks for allowing me to express my view point. And yes I'm still going to be that "fucking snitch" lol