New Limit 1 Player Report Per User, Per Day

Winnie

Winnie

Spectacularly Lethal Soldier
Contributor
❗DISCLAIMER❗
⚠️ I am not a member of Skial's Leadership; therefore, I do not speak on their behalf, and this may hold no value! ⚠️
❌ I do not condone the behaviors/actions that are being reported
❌ No interests are tied to this suggestion. It's entirely my own
❌ No hard feelings will be taken if there is/are disagreement(s)
❌ I am not tracking any future appeals for reasoning

Limit 1 Player Report Per User, Per Day!*
*EXCEPTION: Reports that are submitted by !votereport. This is agreed automatically by creating the room-supported vote.

👉 3 GOALS could be achieved if this suggestion is implemented 👈
​
  • 1. 🎯 Prevent Weaponization of Skial’s Report System (Reduce Invalid Reports)
Reporting a player without interaction is an inefficient process. TF2 is a game, not the reporting tool!
I am not seeking retribution for my invalid report(s). I am actually rectifying preventative measures.
This could even be approached as a follow-up to my last suggestion, Update the Report System.
There is a counter-discussion to this, but that will be included in the 3rd goal.

  • 2. 🎯 Lighten the Administration's Workload, Ability to Assess The Reporter's Priorities
Because let's
get-real-drive.gif


You guys have lives. Bottiger does too. Respect needs to be understood amongst each other from the community and the Leadership.
Being expected on demand can be tiresome, especially if there is a large backlog of reports to manage.

Reports are also a factor for those applying to be an administrator.
Evaluating how a reporter chooses their priorities and interacts with the community can provide insight. It would produce an analysis of how the potential pick could be IF they were selected for the role.
I got questioned why I refer to admins as leaders. Because I look up to y'all. It was a principle widely understood from my workplace experience as a manager.

  • 3. 🎯 Incentivizes Users to Join The Forum
Back to Goal #1 above. Reporting a user once a week can be downright unrealistic. Some users arrive and violate the rules every day.
But this creates the perfect paradox for the community to resolve. Finding another user to assist and enforce Skial's principles together as a team!
If the user is truly having a negative personal experience, they will come forward to make their 1 report for the sake of betterment. This can be cancelled out if a !votereport command has been initiated. No barriers if there is a negative impact on the room. That is why the !votereport command is an exception.

If this makes you think, or oppose it, feel free to express! 🙂

Edit: Updated after further consultation.
 
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Winnie said:
!votereport is an exception. 🙂
The ability would not be changed, but requires more support from the community.
Click to expand...

You can't rely on that feature. There are times where not everyone in the server agrees with reporting someone. Whether it be for saying something racist or anything offensive. Some people might think it's funny. Some might not care and won't use the command. Others probably don't think whatever the person said is reportable, for whatever reason.

Why would you think limiting reports to be once per week per user is a good idea when anything can happen on any day? Like I said above, trying to rely on the !votereport feature is not a good idea and it is pointless when you can just make a report yourself and not have to wait for everyone else to vote to report the user.

And who's to say it would reduce invalid reports? Anyone can make an invalid report. Yes, sometimes it's one person, so maybe then it would make sense, but that's not usually the case. Even if it is, sometimes invalid reports can be useful to help players understand why the report is invalid so they learn something from it, at the very least.

You guys have lives. Bottiger does too. Respect needs to be understood amongst each other from the community and the Leadership.
Being expected on demand can be tiresome, especially if there is a large backlog of reports to manage.
Click to expand...

That's why there are multiple admins and not just one. Multiple admins band together to take care of multiple reports. When one is not available to respond to a report, there is usually another to fill the role to take care of it. And of course they have lives, that's why reports can take up to multiple days to be resolved, which isn't exactly an issue.

Reporting a user once a week can be downright unrealistic. Some users arrive and violate the rules every day.
But this creates the perfect paradox for the community to resolve. Finding another user to assist and enforce Skial's principles together as a team!
If the user is truly having a negative personal experience, they will come forward to make their 1 report for the sake of betterment. This can be cancelled out if a !votereport command has been initiated. No barriers if there is a negative impact on the room. That is why the !votereport command is an exception.
Click to expand...

Who cares? If one person can do it, that's all that matters. It's already an effort for the community, going out of your way to file a report on here. Making multiple people do it for seemingly no reason-- (I'm not counting "teamwork" as a reason. People go to Skial to play TF2. That's it. A very good majority do not care about reporting players.) --just sounds stupid. Again, because one person can make multiple reports. It's just a waste of time.

What if someone doesn't know how to make a report, or they think it will take too much effort, or waste their time?

Imagine: "Oh, well, I already made a report this week, so I can't report this person being racist in chat. Can someone else do it for me?" Then either nobody cares, nobody knows how to do it, or they disagree, all the things.

But if this stupid limit were to never be added in the first place, that wouldn't be an issue.
 
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creep said:
You can't rely on that feature. There are times where not everyone in the server agrees with reporting someone. Whether it be for saying something racist or anything offensive. Some people might think it's funny. Some might not care and won't use the command. Others probably don't think whatever the person said is reportable, for whatever reason.

Why would you think limiting reports to be once per week per user is a good idea when anything can happen on any day? Like I said above, trying to rely on the !votereport feature is not a good idea and it is pointless when you can just make a report yourself and not have to wait for everyone else to vote to report the user.

And who's to say it would reduce invalid reports? Anyone can make an invalid report. Yes, sometimes it's one person, so maybe then it would make sense, but that's not usually the case. Even if it is, sometimes invalid reports can be useful to help players understand why the report is invalid so they learn something from it, at the very least.



That's why there are multiple admins and not just one. Multiple admins band together to take care of multiple reports. When one is not available to respond to a report, there is usually another to fill the role to take care of it. And of course they have lives, that's why reports can take up to multiple days to be resolved, which isn't exactly an issue.



Who cares? If one person can do it, that's all that matters. It's already an effort for the community, going out of your way to file a report on here. Making multiple people do it for seemingly no reason-- (I'm not counting "teamwork" as a reason. People go to Skial to play TF2. That's it. A very good majority do not care about reporting players.) --just sounds stupid. Again, because one person can make multiple reports. It's just a waste of time.

What if someone doesn't know how to make a report, or they think it will take too much effort, or waste their time?

Imagine: "Oh, well, I already made a report this week, so I can't report this person being racist in chat. Can someone else do it for me?" Then either nobody cares, nobody knows how to do it, or they disagree, all the things.

But if this stupid limit were to never be added in the first place, that wouldn't be an issue.
Click to expand...

I appreciate your detailed input creep. 🙂 It really highlights the diversity of the culture itself. I did direct that the vote system could be utilized for disciplinary action, but you brought up more that is fair to mention.

The !votemenu command is indeed flawed. But with !votereport, you only need 3 to create the thread.

It can gather a lot of support and votes, but the result may not be fairly conclusive. It could signal that it's due time to create a technical report to address the defect? I know what you are referring to because I have witnessed it myself. Sometimes it is effective, sometimes it is not. Sometimes the filters are also effective and don't require a vote/report that has already been resolved. I wouldn't have to imagine asking someone to report if the filter already did the work, you know? Let alone myself, because that would just be ineffective with additional negative reinforcements.

True, that one report can also be marked invalid. It needs more importance if it's worth being marked invalid. Why make the report if it is risky in that nature? There should be no doubt if the report supports clear evidence of a violation. It should be !votereported beforehand so that 1 report can be reserved. Looking at the big picture of things for the community as a whole.
 
I don’t even report, and I totally disagree with this idea. Sure, it might be a way to completely get rid of snitch culture, but it does so by completely eliminating any consequences for the server. I don’t like snitch culture either… But I don’t think this is the solution to it. I do appreciate the efforts, though.


Most reports are made in good faith. The main problem with snitch culture on the server is that people are threatening to report for non-reportable offenses, which creates tension and kills voice chat. Voice chat is the lifeblood of the TF2 server. And as much as I hate people threatening to report each other over playful banter or just to mess with each other, I don’t think that criminalizing that helps either. Although I do hate it. And limiting the amount of reports someone can do has entered my mind before long ago.

Edit to add
I have always noticed individuals since I started actively playing in 2012 that would offensively use reports where they generate genuinely did not feel offended by the conduct nor was said, conduct enough to make individuals on the server, feel uncomfortable.but I also have seen recently reports to be invalidated due to moderators, looking into the circumstances of the reports. I really like seeing that especially the recent one by @Feral Angel . We should recognize these moments as a community and encourage them. But again 19 out of 20 reports I’m seeing are at least good faith. Only seven or eight people in the entire skial community regularly report. So we are effectively lowering the weekly reports to 8+ the few randoms that do reports every once in a while. And when you think about how rowdy2fort and idle get were six or seven reports may be warranted in less than three hours it just doesn’t work.
 
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lucas4647 said:
I don’t even report, and I totally disagree with this idea. Sure, it might be a way to completely get rid of snitch culture, but it does so by completely eliminating any consequences for the server. I don’t like snitch culture either… But I don’t think this is the solution to it. I do appreciate the efforts, though.


Most reports are made in good faith. The main problem with snitch culture on the server is that people are threatening to report for non-reportable offenses, which creates tension and kills voice chat. Voice chat is the lifeblood of the NETF2 server. And as much as I hate people threatening to report each other over playful banter or just to mess with each other, I don’t think that criminalizing that helps either. Although I do hate it. And limiting the amount of reports someone can do has entered my mind before long ago.
Click to expand...

Thank you for your input, Lucas. 🙂
It technically would be no change if the !votereport command and filters still exist. Negative reinforcements can still be given without generating a report, but when it's done twice? It's just more turnover to account for.. 🙁

We can keep the rose-colored glasses on and conclude that it's no problem. Reports are being made with good intentions. But if the player base continues to decline, then what will be left? It's not snitch culture if we run out of players. It's a failure to adapt and change the world for the better.
 
Winnie said:
Thank you for your input, Lucas. 🙂
It technically would be no change if the !votereport command and filters still exist. Negative reinforcements can still be given without generating a report, but when it's done twice? It's just more turnover to account for.. 🙁

We can keep the rose-colored glasses on and conclude that it's no problem. Reports are being made with good intentions. But if the player base continues to decline, then what will be left? It's not snitch culture if we run out of players. It's a failure to adapt and change the world for the better.
Click to expand...

The server needs a promoter and/or attractions. That’s why we are dying.

UGC and Uncletopia have far more strict standards. They ban for what we commonly mute players for. I don’t want to be a community that stays alive because it’s the last big server that lets one say hatespeech. If Skial dies because it followed good moderation practices I’m fine with that.


If we want to rebuild the server we need promoters, dedicated members of the community, and attraction to the server one way or another.

Your point is valid. The snitch culture is ultra mega ass. But it’s worse elsewhere while other communities still hold the line for player count.

And I will take your point that I look at the past and present with rose colored glasses at times. But the answers on how to save the server are simple yet incredibly difficult at the same time. Lowering standards doesn’t help us. Skial has a reputation problem for toxicity, lowering the standard won’t let us beat the accusations.

I’d love for you to start streaming/making videos to promote the server. It could save us.
 
I think the bigger problem is how the rules are applied so broadly now. There's clearly a difference between saying "ni-" in the chat as a joke and ranting about how black people should be hanged from trees but they are treated as if they are the same thing by the current admins.

Why would anyone choose Skial where mere jokes aren't allowed when you can go on casual and say pretty much anything? I'm not saying blatant racism should be allowed but you can't tell me that there's no difference between being a little edgy and being actually racist.

Reminder that during the golden age of Skial you could say "nigga" in the chat as long as it wasn't in a negative context.
 
Cream Tea said:
I think the bigger problem is how the rules are applied so broadly now. There's clearly a difference between saying "ni-" in the chat as a joke and ranting about how black people should be hanged from trees but they are treated as if they are the same thing by the current admins.

Why would anyone choose Skial where mere jokes aren't allowed when you can go on casual and say pretty much anything? I'm not saying blatant racism should be allowed but you can't tell me that there's no difference between being a little edgy and being actually racist.

Reminder that during the golden age of Skial you could say "nigga" in the chat as long as it wasn't in a negative context.
Click to expand...
https://www.skial.com/threads/let-people-say-minor-slurs.124318/
 
lucas4647 said:
The server needs a promoter and/or attractions. That’s why we are dying.

UGC and Uncletopia have far more strict standards. They ban for what we commonly mute players for. I don’t want to be a community that stays alive because it’s the last big server that lets one say hatespeech. If Skial dies because it followed good moderation practices I’m fine with that.


If we want to rebuild the server we need promoters, dedicated members of the community, and attraction to the server one way or another.

Your point is valid. The snitch culture is ultra mega ass. But it’s worse elsewhere while other communities still hold the line for player count.

And I will take your point that I look at the past and present with rose colored glasses at times. But the answers on how to save the server are simple yet incredibly difficult at the same time. Lowering standards doesn’t help us. Skial has a reputation problem for toxicity, lowering the standard won’t let us beat the accusations.

I’d love for you to start streaming/making videos to promote the server. It could save us.
Click to expand...

I would love to re-enter the streaming business and provide raw entertainment to support Skial's growth. Unfortunately, it's no longer 2020.
I have to work to make ends meet now with bills, but it is agreed that seeking a promoter is the best solution. Exposing Skial to the public on how much fun this dang server has holds potential.

I have no acknowledgment of there being a snitch culture. I had no involvement with Quarf whatsoever. It was punitive to implement 2 reports against the same messages that ultimately resulted in them being muted by the room. And he states that he is black. Are we really welcoming diversity or enabling a police state on the server? That is why I am coming forward with this suggestion. I wouldn't want hate speech to conquer either, but the meaning of diversity is LARGE. Cultures are understood differently, which may not be comprehensible to another. Seeking to understand each other is best. Just like the thread you are sharing with Cream Tea.

lucas4647 said:
https://www.skial.com/threads/let-people-say-minor-slurs.124318/
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Did anyone in the community immediately take initiative to report VeryInflammable's slurs in the thread? No.

We talked together as a community to reach an understanding of why those words should not be used. Not to weaponize the report system to dismiss them altogether.

Cream Tea said:
I think the bigger problem is how the rules are applied so broadly now. There's clearly a difference between saying "ni-" in the chat as a joke and ranting about how black people should be hanged from trees but they are treated as if they are the same thing by the current admins.

Why would anyone choose Skial where mere jokes aren't allowed when you can go on casual and say pretty much anything? I'm not saying blatant racism should be allowed but you can't tell me that there's no difference between being a little edgy and being actually racist.

Reminder that during the golden age of Skial you could say "nigga" in the chat as long as it wasn't in a negative context.
Click to expand...

It's a matter of cultural difference. The admins didn't do anything. The community evolved to subscribe to report sprees. The admins have no choice in this if the community is pushing it to happen with reason. Decisions on their behalf can be tough to understand and may not seem beneficial. We need to be forgiving.
 
Cream Tea said:
Kalashnikov himself was actively scrolling through chatlogs looking for anything that could possibly be racist until January.
Click to expand...

If he did or didn't, you have to forgive him. Users were subscribing to the same practice, which ultimately led to the sticky thread.
 
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One report per user per week is far too strict.

Hypothetically, Increase that limit to three per day. Don't restrict how many are reported in a single report when it's the same offense by multiple people during the same session
 
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