DanishSoup

Spectacularly Lethal Soldier
Contributor
It is finally time to nerf spy's backstab damage. Currently spy in ff2 does way too many damage from my calculations which will be explained later. I also buffed some weapons in comphensation and bosses.

Weapon changes:​

  • All spy knifes have their backstab damage nerfed. From my testing with a 24k health boss, spy will do 2735 damage 13.6% first stab, 2466 damage 12.3% second stab, and 2197 10.9% on his third stab. In-total spy will do 7398 damage with 3 stabs, more than 30% of the boss's health. To put this in prospective, a garden will do 2060 damage 8.5% first hit, 1871 damage 7.7% second hit, and 1682 damage 6.9% third hit. The new nerf damage will go as follows: 1094 damage 4.5% first stab, 986 damage 4.0% second stab, and 879 damage 3.6% third stab. This is about the same damage as the caber.
  • Stock grenade launcher has crits. Compared to other grenade launchers, stock is unremarkable. Loose cannon and Iron bomber have mobility. One can push the boss and jump away while the other has controlled pills. The loch-n-load has faster pills that are easier to aim with. So stock needs something to stand out.
  • Carbine has double ammo.
  • Shortstop has crits. It still does bad damage just not as bad.
  • Pomson no longer slows the boss. The slowdown mechanic is broken in ff2. Not only it slows down bosses, but with majority of bosses it disables super jump and raging. Pomson now has even faster projectile speed to help getting hits off.

Boss changes:​

  • Donkey kong attributes on his cannon fixed. I found out he was using two 99 attributes. My fault. I also made it so that his charge does 50 damage. Nothing major but theres potential with 1-2 ko's with certain classes.
  • Abe is a bit more faster with his minimum move speed now at 370 hu/s. Also I noticed Abe got reverted randomly?
 

herp 105.4

Rage-Inducing Forum Troll
Contributor
FF2 Balancer
All spy knifes have their backstab damage nerfed. From my testing with a 24k health boss, spy will do 2735 damage 13.6% first stab, 2466 damage 12.3% second stab, and 2197 10.9% on his third stab. In-total spy will do 7398 damage with 3 stabs, more than 30% of the boss's health. To put this in prospective, a garden will do 2060 damage 8.5% first hit, 1871 damage 7.7% second hit, and 1682 damage 6.9% third hit. The new nerf damage will go as follows: 1094 damage 4.5% first stab, 986 damage 4.0% second stab, and 879 damage 3.6% third stab. This is about the same damage as the caber.
cant happen
Stock grenade launcher has crits. Compared to other grenade launchers, stock is unremarkable. Loose cannon and Iron bomber have mobility. One can push the boss and jump away while the other has controlled pills. The loch-n-load has faster pills that are easier to aim with. So stock needs something to stand out.
could be interesting, though the knockback early will be a bitch
Carbine has double ammo.
yey
Shortstop has crits. It still does bad damage just not as bad.
crit a cola
Pomson no longer slows the boss. The slowdown mechanic is broken in ff2. Not only it slows down bosses, but with majority of bosses it disables super jump and raging. Pomson now has even faster projectile speed to help getting hits off.
no, do you have any idea how hard it is to hit with pomson? it gets denied if an ally walks into it and it is still slow as shit
  • Donkey kong attributes on his cannon fixed. I found out he was using two 99 attributes. My fault. I also made it so that his charge does 50 damage. Nothing major but theres potential with 1-2 ko's with certain classes.
  • Abe is a bit more faster with his minimum move speed now at 370 hu/s. Also I noticed Abe got reverted randomly?
the only worrying thing about this is abe, because last time i checked he still wins pretty often, what with his double jump weighdown
that might be a bit much? dunno
 

DanishSoup

Spectacularly Lethal Soldier
Contributor
cant happen

could be interesting, though the knockback early will be a bitch

yey

crit a cola

no, do you have any idea how hard it is to hit with pomson? it gets denied if an ally walks into it and it is still slow as shit

the only worrying thing about this is abe, because last time i checked he still wins pretty often, what with his double jump weighdown
that might be a bit much? dunno
1. I tested the changes, they work. 2. Yeah. 3. I know but it's something I guess? 4. Yeah true. I couldn't find a way to make the pomson penetrate through players. Slowdown is broken though. 5. Weird. From my experience from others playing, Abe barely wins.
 

Stove™

Positively Inhumane Poster
All spy knifes have their backstab damage nerfed. From my testing with a 24k health boss, spy will do 2735 damage 13.6% first stab, 2466 damage 12.3% second stab, and 2197 10.9% on his third stab. In-total spy will do 7398 damage with 3 stabs, more than 30% of the boss's health. To put this in prospective, a garden will do 2060 damage 8.5% first hit, 1871 damage 7.7% second hit, and 1682 damage 6.9% third hit. The new nerf damage will go as follows: 1094 damage 4.5% first stab, 986 damage 4.0% second stab, and 879 damage 3.6% third stab. This is about the same damage as the caber.
I'm really hoping this one in particular ends up working because we tried to change it a couple times and it never worked. Spy has needed a backstab nerf for a while.
 
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Percilius

Totally Ordinary Human
Contributor
FF2 Balancer
+1 to the spy knives and carbine changes, -1 to the rest.
+1 to the boss changes.
 

DanishSoup

Spectacularly Lethal Soldier
Contributor
I forgot to mention that the shortstop and stock grenade launcher aren't crits and are minicrits. Again, my mistake. If you want me to revert the pomson I could do it and if you still don't want these weapons to minicrits then I could revert it too
 

theoatsman

Somewhat Threatening Sniper
+1 to spy shit
+1 to boss shit
id say giving demoman's primaries just minicrits sounds fair
 

Percilius

Totally Ordinary Human
Contributor
FF2 Balancer
I forgot to mention that the shortstop and stock grenade launcher aren't crits and are minicrits. Again, my mistake. If you want me to revert the pomson I could do it and if you still don't want these weapons to minicrits then I could revert it too
Still a -1 on the grenade and shortstop changes, neither crits or minicrits are needed for those two.
 

Doktoberfest

Somewhat Threatening Sniper
FF2 Balancer
All spy knifes have their backstab damage nerfed. From my testing with a 24k health boss, spy will do 2735 damage 13.6% first stab, 2466 damage 12.3% second stab, and 2197 10.9% on his third stab. In-total spy will do 7398 damage with 3 stabs, more than 30% of the boss's health. To put this in prospective, a garden will do 2060 damage 8.5% first hit, 1871 damage 7.7% second hit, and 1682 damage 6.9% third hit. The new nerf damage will go as follows: 1094 damage 4.5% first stab, 986 damage 4.0% second stab, and 879 damage 3.6% third stab. This is about the same damage as the caber.
+1 yes if you can make that work fuck spy
Stock grenade launcher has crits. Compared to other grenade launchers, stock is unremarkable. Loose cannon and Iron bomber have mobility. One can push the boss and jump away while the other has controlled pills. The loch-n-load has faster pills that are easier to aim with. So stock needs something to stand out.
-1 crits is a bit too overboard since unless the boss got knockback resist a good demo can juggle the boss. minicrits is a maybe as well i suppose

Carbine has double ammo.
+1 no one uses the carbine go nuts

Shortstop has crits. It still does bad damage just not as bad.
-1 fat no for me shortstop is more of a midrange weapon rather than close range being more efficient at doin consistant damage while having some distance from the boss. Also unless you want sniper scouts this is just a bad idea in general

Pomson no longer slows the boss. The slowdown mechanic is broken in ff2. Not only it slows down bosses, but with majority of bosses it disables super jump and raging. Pomson now has even faster projectile speed to help getting hits off.
-1 also a fat no slow down is really not that bad as you make it sound. especially when i can still kill with worse case scenario shrek in urban sewers with escape soldiers and bison. besides it's not like it's easy to land the pomson shots as is those projectiles are slow as hell.
 

DanishSoup

Spectacularly Lethal Soldier
Contributor
+1 yes if you can make that work fuck spy

-1 crits is a bit too overboard since unless the boss got knockback resist a good demo can juggle the boss. minicrits is a maybe as well i suppose


+1 no one uses the carbine go nuts


-1 fat no for me shortstop is more of a midrange weapon rather than close range being more efficient at doin consistant damage while having some distance from the boss. Also unless you want sniper scouts this is just a bad idea in general


-1 also a fat no slow down is really not that bad as you make it sound. especially when i can still kill with worse case scenario shrek in urban sewers with escape soldiers and bison. besides it's not like it's easy to land the pomson shots as is those projectiles are slow as hell.
With the shortstop and stock grenade they're minicrits mentioned in replies. I tested the shortstop with minicrits and while it does more damage, it's still niche. I reverted the pomson because of perc and herps thoughts
 

herp 105.4

Rage-Inducing Forum Troll
Contributor
FF2 Balancer
With the shortstop and stock grenade they're minicrits mentioned in replies. I tested the shortstop with minicrits and while it does more damage, it's still niche. I reverted the pomson because of perc and herps thoughts
hey danish, heres an idea and i personally want your opinion on it
readd invis watch cloak resistance, not dr, normal stock invis watch
what do you think
 
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DanishSoup

Spectacularly Lethal Soldier
Contributor
hey danish, heres an idea and i personally want your opinion on it
readd invis watch cloak resistance, not dr, normal stock invis watch
what do you think
Yeah sure I could add it. I mean spy's damage has been nerfed already so there should be some compensation. You want the regular cloak to at least tank a normal 202 hit?
Edit: thinking about it now making spy tank 2 hits would just make the invis watch a dead ringer 2
 
Last edited:

Stove™

Positively Inhumane Poster
Yeah sure I could add it. I mean spy's damage has been nerfed already so there should be some compensation. You want the regular cloak to at least tank a normal 202 hit?
Edit: thinking about it now making spy tank 2 hits would just make the invis watch a dead ringer 2
If I remember correctly, it used to normally tank a single hit on stock Spy and then the second hit would kill you if you didn't grab any health.
 

DanishSoup

Spectacularly Lethal Soldier
Contributor
After much discussion I made a few more changes.
  • The invis watch has a 33% resistance to damage. It is not enough for taking on boss hits. I don't think it should become another dead ringer because invis activates much earlier than the dead ringer and has invis on command. This should help deal with low damage bosses and some long range bosses.
  • Minicrits removed for the shortstop and grenade launcher.
  • Carbine now has equal ammo to the smg. Previously was 150, now 200.
Spy knife changes stay the same. Please let me know about your thoughts and +1's or -1's

DL: https://www.mediafire.com/file/3yhxupv28xi53z4/weaponsandbosses.zip/file
 

Percilius

Totally Ordinary Human
Contributor
FF2 Balancer
After much discussion I made a few more changes.
  • The invis watch has a 33% resistance to damage. It is not enough for taking on boss hits. I don't think it should become another dead ringer because invis activates much earlier than the dead ringer and has invis on command. This should help deal with low damage bosses and some long range bosses.
  • Minicrits removed for the shortstop and grenade launcher.
  • Carbine now has equal ammo to the smg. Previously was 150, now 200.
Spy knife changes stay the same. Please let me know about your thoughts and +1's or -1's

DL: https://www.mediafire.com/file/3yhxupv28xi53z4/weaponsandbosses.zip/file
+1
 

Stove™

Positively Inhumane Poster
After much discussion I made a few more changes.
  • The invis watch has a 33% resistance to damage. It is not enough for taking on boss hits. I don't think it should become another dead ringer because invis activates much earlier than the dead ringer and has invis on command. This should help deal with low damage bosses and some long range bosses.
  • Minicrits removed for the shortstop and grenade launcher.
  • Carbine now has equal ammo to the smg. Previously was 150, now 200.
Spy knife changes stay the same. Please let me know about your thoughts and +1's or -1's

DL: https://www.mediafire.com/file/3yhxupv28xi53z4/weaponsandbosses.zip/file
This is good. I like this. +1