Video Everything is Offensive.

[StemsAndSeeds]

thought provoking thread.... this is new.

I am not sure where all of you are located. I live in the United States, the country where it is okay to sue somebody for doing something or saying something you dont like. I am sure there are other countries that also operate that way, but i hope for your sake you dont live in one. In my opinion the problem is not the general population, it is the government. The courts have set a standard in this country based on the "feelings" or "mental well-being" of others. This has brought out all of the different groups who support this, or hate that and given them power. On one hand i believe this is a positive thing, for the reason it is easier to get a perspective that 50 years ago you may have not been able to hear. On the other hand (the much bigger hand) it has turned are youth into a bunch of confused idiots. One day these confused idiots will be running are companies and are government. I believe my country which i served for and a few people i knew died for is turning into something that i would not risk breaking a pinky nail for. To say that we as a people need to come together and change are political climate is an understatement. In fact i personally believe that it is to late. We as a people have allowed are government so many liberties over are daily routines in the name of fairness and saftey that we have lost the core values are government was created upon. I now live in a country where people just allow there government to tell them what is safe, and what is offensive.

There have always been groups at odds with each other. Often times (in the past) these groups have resorted to violence to solve there differences. Globally speaking most of the biggest changes that occured in large populations have been the direct result of violence and death. The human race is one of the few mammals on this planet who will kill there own kind for pleasure or "pride". These have been the actions of humans since the begining of time. We have killed in the name of God. We have killed in the name of patriotism. We have killed in the name of race. We have killed in the name of property. We have killed in the name of money. We will keep killing each other until are time on this planet is over. That my friends is humanity. This is are nature wether we like it or not. Are we all violent people? no. Can all of us become violent? yes. I have watched the kindist person in the world end anothers life because it was his "duty". Because he was told it was in the name of good. What i am getting at is you can all sit back and think that your voice matters. That your opinion is important. The reality is your opinion means nothing in the larger scheme of things. The only way it would mean something is if you had control over the hearts and minds of thousands of men with semi-automatic weapons.

So sit back and talk about how you feel. Tell the world that it isnt fair. The reality is you are part of the problem. Most of us are not ready to die for are opinions. Most of us just want to live a quiet life, have sex, make money, and take a shit on a heated toilet seat. Do you know why you have the ablilty to do that? Because men with guns will kill anyone who tries to stop you. Not because they care about you. Not because they worry about your mental well-being. It is because they are doing what they are paid to do. Just as there is a man being paid to protect you, i can assure you there is a man who would end your life for nothing more then money or the way you look. So keep debating "racial" issues, keep debating your political leaning. Unless you are truely willing to sacrafice your life for what you believe, nothing will change. It is an easy thing to say, but even harder to prove. Most of the men and women who have proven it are 6 feet underneath dirt.

"Violence isn't always evil. What's evil is the infatuation with violence." ~ Jim Morrison

 

[Giildy]

I understand where you are coming from, even if you sound tired right now.

From the several dozens of thousands of related instances I've seen throughout my time on the internet (tremble before my wasted time), people repeatedly gave certain words power over them. You're right when it comes to the influence of our regional diversity, but I had hoped that the internet would help people in that regard by the time they reach some specific gaming community. The internet is full of information, the worst examples of the human race, the best examples of the human race, time killers, etc. Even when I was extremely young, simply playing a game as mindless as RuneScape helped me develop maturity and some understanding to the true nature of the human race as a hole, instead of just this dumb close-minded area in Texas that lets me know I am a worthless faggot that is a disease upon mankind everytime I turn around. Everything ended up being a large shade of grey, nothing was as simple as I had thought it was.

However, I have been on that Turbine server when someone uses the word Nigger constantly with shitstorm intentions, or Fag, or Communist, or Wetback, and it is supremely annoying. What I really am against is the declaration of a word, subject, or object as terrible for those arbitrary reasons I mentioned above, not the allowance of that word to be used multiple times because I think it is not as bad as everyone else thinks. Even though very young children do play Team Fortress 2 or navigate these forums, many of the players are grown adults that have had access to the internet for years and the ability to get on it for extended periods of times frequently. Many of these adults still allow certain things to have much more power over them than they should; it's nearly similar to a phobia of goldfish at that point. Nigger, a word that was once closely affiliated with racism, went from being a negative determinate of worth to having a variation which held the receiver in a friendly and positive light. It was always just a simple word, it's definition is elastic and dependent on what the people wish it to be, whether it be an insult or a compliment.

Human history does not have to define who you or anyone else is, it does not have to serve any further purpose than basic awareness of the past. Germany is not a country of Nazis, Japan cannot even declare war anymore, there is no longer a Soviet Russia, and women are actually being taken seriously now. There are several unchangeable things that a person could use to define themselves that they're not responsible for in the least, their sexuality, their gender, their nationality, their race, their biological brain wiring, and so forth. No one should ever allow anyone to convince them that those factors determine their possible achievements or failings in life. I just wish that, not only adults, but kids as well would be able to see more often than not that they are far too complex to be placed in the tiny holes some societal rules would have them believe fits them and everyone else with the same broad label perfectly.


Thank you so much for that post, I needed that.

Edit:

You as well. c:

I'm a bad person and haven't slept yet. -.-

Ack... down the line.

Not every person that comes to Skial is a seasoned intertube veteran. Think of the kids that are scared of 4chan and reddit but would be willing to make an account here so that they can try to be helpful. :D lol, there's no minimum of experience required to join this community. You'd pretty much just have to know how to favorite a server.

Your interactions with runescape were your formitive experiences? It might be that for some skial is the place they'll have their formative experiences. I want them to have someone in their corner when they feel pressed up against the wall! Yeah!

"What I really am against is the declaration of a word, subject, or object as terrible for those arbitrary reasons I mentioned above, not the allowance of that word to be used multiple times because I think it is not as bad as everyone else thinks." Waazit? Not sure I parsed this. Like. At all. XD

I think that you need to keep in mind that there are people, in areas that mods live in, that would defend themselves by saying 'nigga' is a friendly word just so they could use it with malice the way they would 'nigger.' I would imagine that most of the knee jerk SHUDDUPS that come from admins are directly related to having to deal with racists justifying themselves by saying their purposefully racist words aren't racist irl.

lol, I struck out the ladies getting taken seriously part for no reason really. Just, dat feel when half the server is white knighting in your name and the other half is calling you a pretentious cunt. -.-

Yep, it is important that everyone understand that they're more than any one label that has been affixed to themselves. In my opinion that's why -isms should be openly ridiculed. So that even the derpiest of internet babies can understand that being pigeon holed is more lulzy than it is serious.

also. I'm not sure what service my ramble provided. Seemed like you needed it though, glad I didn't fail. XD

 

[pr1mus da scr1pt]

offensiveness deters from person to person, i'm arguably very desensitized due to the stuff i've heard and seen, that and i feel i'm fairly good and deducting people who say 'offensive' words, so i could maybe lessen the 'pain' to see where they are coming from. my friend got kicked out of his house by his dad because he came out of the closet a year ago, for instance; homophobia is still an issue and is still a touchy subject for some people. when i was eighteen years old i was 6'8'' and was around 200+ pounds and i would have to deal with people making jokes about my stature (before i went hulk and said "ME ANGRY! ME SMASH"), i build up a sense of self-mockery to deflect criticism and laugh about it. my dad also has cancer, and here in the netherlands; people use cancer as a cuss a lot, and it irks some people, i understand people don't grasp what they're saying most of the time, someone who calls someone "gay" isn't necessarily out to hurt gays. what i've learned from living in a free society is that you build up a shield to deal with stuff, instead of censoring everything endlessly just for the sake of it being 'offensive', what you may not find offensive is surely offensive for someone else, why the double standard?

especially more controversial words that jokes around with diseases, illness and bigotry arguably only exist for shock-value for the most part. i personally can't see myself get pissed off at stuff like that (unless it's an human stupidity from the highest shelf), i understand some terms have been adopted recently in other aspects than insults, so i tend to listen or look into someone before deciding for myself whether someone was just trying to be a hurtful dickhole or was coming from somewhere else, maybe i'm too idealistic, but i'll be damned if i wouldn't be allowed to do that.

 

[wokmage]

I think that I probably agree close to 100% with the OP (although I haven't watched the video you posted yet so I'm not sure) at least on a personal level. With that said, I think that the main issue people forget about when dealing with the issue of racism on skial is that this is essentially private property, whatever the owner(s) (in this case Bottiger) decides are the rules (obviously within the laws of the countries in which skial operates) are the rules and anyone who doesn't follow them can be kicked out. (Actually to be honest anyone could be kicked out on nothing more than a whim, but that wouldn't be a very effective way to build and maintain a community)

Therefore, in accordance with the rules laid down by Bottiger and enforced by his team of admins the question of what racism is and how it should be responded to is pretty well established. I don't necessarily agree with the stance that skial takes towards racism, but I do see that it is probably one of the best ways to avoid the most public outcry and possible legal ramifications. They really can't be sued for not letting somebody say nigger, but the possibility seems much greater if they let anybody say anything.

 

[pr1mus da scr1pt]

Therefore, in accordance with the rules laid down by Bottiger and enforced by his team of admins the question of what racism is and how it should be responded to is pretty well established.

i don't believe that's it 'pretty well established' to what end racism is signified on the server rules, as it only says 'No Racism', which doesn't explain certain tolerances against certain words. which should be cleared up, i only know from participating on the forum itself for a month now that any sort of N-word is handled with zero tolerancy, if it were theoretically up to me, i would be a bit more liberal with the "No Racism" rule, and give it some thought inside my head to the cases that get reported before hitting it with the big red "RACIST"-stamp.

but that's me and i don't expect people to handle situations like me, but it's food for thought. racism is a bigger issue overseas than it is over here, so i most definitely don't hold the same feelings towards racism like some of you might have, but racists are definitely mindless scum.

 

[Lord Killington]

i don't believe that's it 'pretty well established' to what end racism is signified on the server rules, as it only says 'No Racism', which doesn't explain certain tolerances against certain words. which should be cleared up, i only know from participating on the forum itself for a month now that any sort of N-word is handled with zero tolerancy, if it were theoretically up to me, i would be a bit more liberal with the "No Racism" rule, and give it some thought inside my head to the cases that get reported before hitting it with the big red "RACIST"-stamp.

but that's me and i don't expect people to handle situations like me, but it's food for thought. racism is a bigger issue overseas than it is over here, so i most definitely don't hold the same feelings towards racism like some of you might have, but racists are definitely mindless scum.

No racism = Zero tolerance.
We've been through this with you. Don't start THAT shitstorm again.

 

[wokmage]

i don't believe that's it 'pretty well established' to what end racism is signified on the server rules, as it only says 'No Racism', which doesn't explain certain tolerances against certain words. which should be cleared up, i only know from participating on the forum itself for a month now that any sort of N-word is handled with zero tolerancy, if it were theoretically up to me, i would be a bit more liberal with the "No Racism" rule, and give it some thought inside my head to the cases that get reported before hitting it with the big red "RACIST"-stamp.
.

That's why I included the part " . . . and enforced by his team of admins . . . " the rules themselves may (for the sake of argument) have been written somewhat vaguely, but the enforcement of the rules and the records of that enforcement create a precedence that pretty much covers any case of racism you are likely to find on a server.

 

[pr1mus da scr1pt]

That's why I included the part " . . . and enforced by his team of admins . . . " the rules themselves may (for the sake of argument) have been written somewhat vaguely, but the enforcement of the rules and the records of that enforcement create a precedence that pretty much covers any case of racism you are likely to find on a server.

true, but if the rules were purposely left vague, it would just seem like a trap for me to sucker people into saying stuff they might think is passable, and instead they're getting accused of a hate crime whilst that isn't the case. i understand admins handle racism differently (one warns, another one hands out a ban immediately), the process isn't uniform and that would concise with the the vagueness about the "No Racism" rule. a slip of the tongue happens regularly, i don't believe that warrants a ban, but if the description was purposely left vague because Bottiger knows different admins have different approaches to ''racism'', some people will feel misunderstood, the latter process could be eliminated by either making all admins warn before banning, or make it a straight-up ban.

No racism = Zero tolerance.
We've been through this with you. Don't start THAT shitstorm again.

the beauty of this topic is that it's specifically tailored to discuss subjects like these, and we've done so civilly so far, please don't mistake yourself into thinking you can tell me what i can and cannot say here in this thread.

and yes, zero tolerancy towards racism, shame that some people just get lazy and just brush all racial-related items under the racist-carpet, even if it doesn't belong there.

 

[Mewkin]

-snip-

While I agree with the basics of your post, you seem to be misunderstanding my actual position. You went off and tried to write a descriptive explanation for the nature of humans and government as your argument. I do not see how someone willing to share their thoughts and discuss different points of views, especially when it comes to something as insignificant as meanings of certain words, fits in with anything you have just typed. Many people would not be willing to die for something like this because it is not even a real racial issue, it is barely any kind of issue at all. Does this particular opinion deserve for people to die for it? Would you die for the chance to persuade people that slang words are not inherently racist or derogatory?

That is a cinematic response that seems to have resulted from being swept up in the moment, which would have actually made sense if I was, in fact, complaining to the world about how unfair it is. Again, I do agree with you on the most part, even if it was not exactly on topic. To keep from derailing the thread any, I will stop questioning the relevance of every part of that post with this thread.

....However, if you were fully aware of the context in which you were posting throughout typing that, I would like to suggest that you are probably a large part of the problem as well. To preach a view so common in this world as you have stated in times that have not called for it. To act superior to those who may think that something may be accomplished without blindly forfeiting their life. To ridicule anyone for attempting to expand upon their knowledge or views before they do something as mindless as obey someone or kill themselves for a cause. If you truly think your post holds absolute relevance, you have stated that people like me are fools based on this thread, based on the fact that we do have voices and think that they may matter in some type of scheme no matter how small. Do all the suicide bombers in the world not have voices that ended up having some effect on the world around them? They died for a cause they believed in, no matter how twisted it may be to many of us, and whatever they experienced throughout their life influenced them in some way up to their final moment whether or not it was consenting.

A human should not just die for a cause they believe is right, that is not how things become right. People flying a plane into a tower does not justify their cause just because they died for it. A pro-lifer bombing abortion clinics do not justify their cause just because they died for it. Killing a civil rights activist does not justify their cause just because they died for it. There are millions of instances in which people died for their beliefs without widening their perspectives in the least, do not support them by declaring anyone who dares think that voices or opinions have their own role to play is part of the problem. Whether or not you meant to, the text you have typed and the context in which it was placed basically states that you believe people who attempt to use reason before devoting themselves to death are part of the problem. Which is why I do hope it was a mistake.

I think that the main issue people forget about when dealing with the issue of racism on skial is that this is essentially private property, whatever the owner(s) (in this case Bottiger) decides are the rules (obviously within the laws of the countries in which skial operates) are the rules and anyone who doesn't follow them can be kicked out.

I am not sure if you were addressing me, but this thread was not created in the hopes of changing the rules. I understand that anyone can make up their own groups and their own rules. If you wish to step foot in my house, you obey a few rules or choose not to come in. This thread was created in the hopes of talking about a topic and sharing views, anyone who does not wish to does not have to take part in it. If it were anything else, it would be in the suggestions forum.

In short, I agree with you.

 

[wokmage]

I am not sure if you were addressing me, but this thread was not created in the hopes of changing the rules. I understand that anyone can make up their own groups and their own rules. If you wish to step foot in my house, you obey a few rules or choose not to come in. This thread was created in the hopes of talking about a topic and sharing views, anyone who does not wish to does not have to take part in it. If it were anything else, it would be in the suggestions forum.

In short, I agree with you.

Cool :) Yeah I was more addressing others who have discussed this topic in the past (most recently pr1mus although he is far from the only person to bring this up). As far as the rest of what you've been saying, I think we agree, I definitely think that the continued use of certain words by certain groups and not by others is counterproductive to tearing down the last of the barriers in peoples' minds regarding race.

Also, you may enjoy this video:

 

[Mewkin]

-

"What I really am against is the declaration of a word, subject, or object as terrible for those arbitrary reasons I mentioned above, not the allowance of that word to be used multiple times because I think it is not as bad as everyone else thinks." Waazit? Not sure I parsed this. Like. At all. XD

lol, I struck out the ladies getting taken seriously part for no reason really. Just, dat feel when half the server is white knighting in your name and the other half is calling you a pretentious cunt. -.-

I'm not sure what service my ramble provided. Seemed like you needed it though, glad I didn't fail. XD

I think I just goofed up there. I meant to say that I was against the former, but was not for the allowance of that word to be used multiple times just because I thought the word was not as terrible as everyone else thinks if this ended up having something to do with the Skial rules.

Absolutely no offense, but I keep forgetting that people have gender on the internet. Sorry, I did not mean it in any way you thought I might have meant it.

Your post was simple, not written for the sake of hostility, and had some differing points of view. I was worried that this thread would derail into some shitstorm over some reason or another, and eventually becoming a list of overused macros before being locked.

 

[Faron]

If I read this WHOLE post beginning to end to I get a prize?

 

[wokmage]

true, but if the rules were purposely left vague, it would just seem like a trap for me to sucker people into saying stuff they might think is passable, and instead they're getting accused of a hate crime whilst that isn't the case. i understand admins handle racism differently (one warns, another one hands out a ban immediately), the process isn't uniform and that would concise with the the vagueness about the "No Racism" rule. a slip of the tongue happens regularly, i don't believe that warrants a ban, but if the description was purposely left vague because Bottiger knows different admins have different approaches to ''racism'', some people will feel misunderstood, the latter process could be eliminated by either making all admins warn before banning, or make it a straight-up ban.

I think that this issue may be more of a cultural/language difference than anything. Like Giildy was saying in her earlier posts what is considered racism varies depending on where you live and so the rules as they are written were probably considered perfectly adequate to Bottiger and most (if not all) of the admins. I know I would certainly consider them adequate, but after reading your previous posts I can say that my understanding of what terms are racist is different from yours.

 

[pr1mus da scr1pt]

I think that this issue may be more of a cultural/language difference than anything. Like Giildy was saying in her earlier posts what is considered racism varies depending on where you live and so the rules as they are written were probably considered perfectly adequate to Bottiger and most (if not all) of the admins. I know I would certainly consider them adequate, but after reading your previous posts I can say that my understanding of what terms are racist is different from yours.

yeah i figured that too with different members of the community. at least on the EU servers where i play; racism doesn't kick up as much dust as it probably would on the US servers. that being said, US players would probably know better what's up when they would read the rules than EU players.

 

[DeadHerald]

thought provoking thread.... this is new.

I am not sure where all of you are located. I live in the United States, the country where it is okay to sue somebody for doing something or saying something you dont like. I am sure there are other countries that also operate that way, but i hope for your sake you dont live in one. In my opinion the problem is not the general population, it is the government. The courts have set a standard in this country based on the "feelings" or "mental well-being" of others. This has brought out all of the different groups who support this, or hate that and given them power. On one hand i believe this is a positive thing, for the reason it is easier to get a perspective that 50 years ago you may have not been able to hear. On the other hand (the much bigger hand) it has turned are youth into a bunch of confused idiots. One day these confused idiots will be running are companies and are government. I believe my country which i served for and a few people i knew died for is turning into something that i would not risk breaking a pinky nail for. To say that we as a people need to come together and change are political climate is an understatement. In fact i personally believe that it is to late. We as a people have allowed are government so many liberties over are daily routines in the name of fairness and saftey that we have lost the core values are government was created upon. I now live in a country where people just allow there government to tell them what is safe, and what is offensive.

There have always been groups at odds with each other. Often times (in the past) these groups have resorted to violence to solve there differences. Globally speaking most of the biggest changes that occured in large populations have been the direct result of violence and death. The human race is one of the few mammals on this planet who will kill there own kind for pleasure or "pride". These have been the actions of humans since the begining of time. We have killed in the name of God. We have killed in the name of patriotism. We have killed in the name of race. We have killed in the name of property. We have killed in the name of money. We will keep killing each other until are time on this planet is over. That my friends is humanity. This is are nature wether we like it or not. Are we all violent people? no. Can all of us become violent? yes. I have watched the kindist person in the world end anothers life because it was his "duty". Because he was told it was in the name of good. What i am getting at is you can all sit back and think that your voice matters. That your opinion is important. The reality is your opinion means nothing in the larger scheme of things. The only way it would mean something is if you had control over the hearts and minds of thousands of men with semi-automatic weapons.

So sit back and talk about how you feel. Tell the world that it isnt fair. The reality is you are part of the problem. Most of us are not ready to die for are opinions. Most of us just want to live a quiet life, have sex, make money, and take a shit on a heated toilet seat. Do you know why you have the ablilty to do that? Because men with guns will kill anyone who tries to stop you. Not because they care about you. Not because they worry about your mental well-being. It is because they are doing what they are paid to do. Just as there is a man being paid to protect you, i can assure you there is a man who would end your life for nothing more then money or the way you look. So keep debating "racial" issues, keep debating your political leaning. Unless you are truely willing to sacrafice your life for what you believe, nothing will change. It is an easy thing to say, but even harder to prove. Most of the men and women who have proven it are 6 feet underneath dirt.

"Violence isn't always evil. What's evil is the infatuation with violence." ~ Jim Morrison

Don't talk down our soldiers that way. You're absolutely right that these men and women give their lives to keep oppressive murdering scum like Al'Qaeda at bay. But they don't do it for the money, there isn't exactly a lot of money involved in that line of work. You shouldn't compare them to mercenaries, it's kind of insulting.

Another thing, I'm not ignorant to the fact that the world is a violent place. But not every person has the will to end someone's life. That's why we have those soldiers. They volunteer to do the hard things for us, to spare us the vile indignity of having to kill another person for the sake of those around you. And truthfully, the very concept of mercy is one of the things that elevates us to sentience. The choice to spare a life, rather than take it. I am not naive enough to think that the world will ever be peaceful. But isn't it better when people don't have to die for ideals? Isn't it better to be spared the sacrifice and the ripple of misery it causes? Yeah, I realize that's not practical and that violence is the only language that some people understand. Believe me when I say I have the bruises to prove that. I just wish it didn't have to be that way.

 

[Ozone]

i don't believe that's it 'pretty well established' to what end racism is signified on the server rules, as it only says 'No Racism', which doesn't explain certain tolerances against certain words. which should be cleared up, i only know from participating on the forum itself for a month now that any sort of N-word is handled with zero tolerancy, if it were theoretically up to me, i would be a bit more liberal with the "No Racism" rule, and give it some thought inside my head to the cases that get reported before hitting it with the big red "RACIST"-stamp.

but that's me and i don't expect people to handle situations like me, but it's food for thought. racism is a bigger issue overseas than it is over here, so i most definitely don't hold the same feelings towards racism like some of you might have, but racists are definitely mindless scum.

Dude, I understand what you mean with the whole "some forms of the N-word is more socially acceptable" or something thing and sure it's more accepted out there in real life but on botts servers it's no racism allowed and people have to abide by that and shit. If you want to give out a warning to people before kicking/banning them, sure go ahead no one is watching you 24/7 to make sure you don't do shit like that and frankly I don't really think anyone gives a fuck if you warn them first and then kick/ban them if they don't agree to stop. Some people need to get kicked/banned without warning though.

 

[Maddo]

I'll tell you a sure fire way to find out what is acceptable and what is not.
When you post, use whatever words you want, If you go to far, you get banned, and branded a nazi, or at the least get heckled by everyone else, complained about, warned, and branded a nazi.
If you don't know whether something is offensive, it most likely is, to one group or another.
If there has to be a 2 page discussion on whether a word is suitable for use, doesn't that just tell you to use one of the other few hundred thousand currently available in the english language?