Delays

Spectacularly Lethal Soldier
This map was recently removed and I don't see why the map was very detailed and had lots of effort put into it also the map had 3 surfs that had different difficulties so all types of surfers could enjoy.
The community seemed to like this map and were disappointed at its removal and I didn't really see the map being unpopular other maps like 10x and air arena never get voted in anymore while I saw crater being voted in quite a lot. Would be nice to see this added back (Also the variety in the surf server needs to improve having like 12 maps isn't enough, a map pool size like the death run servers would be nice.)
 
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This is exactly why skial is perceived the way it is by literally every other community.

I'm guessing the mapocalypse idea is dead. I still don't understand the harm of keeping crater and quack in rotation. I made fair points as to why I think a ton more maps should be added, but I guess the only reason not to is this stupid popularity policy. Literal corporate server.

Might as well never suggest a map ever again because every time you do, you run the risk of your favorite map getting dropped from rotation.

Welcome to skial, enjoy your day.
 
Also, some more transparency would be nice.

I don't think anyone appreciates map being shadow dropped from rotation with no warning or reason given.

Maybe have a vote or something on forums or in game on the server, or tell us which maps need more playtime to be up-kept in advance of their removal so we have time to revive them.

I especially like the idea of a vote on forums, since I have a feeling that the people who take time out of their day to make an forum account and check forums are most likely more invested in the game-mode and its future.
 
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Anyways, since I know this will come up: Here is Bottiger's reasoning for removing "unpopular" maps, copied and pasted from his general post.
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Why do we remove maps if it is unpopular?

You can argue that people wouldn't vote for a map they don't like and if they don't vote they don't care.

However, the reality is that when an unpopular map gets voted in, half the server leaves. Even people who don't vote will quit because they were too lazy to vote or they leave because everyone else left. That's why we need to be proactive in removing unpopular maps.
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Dissection time.

Through my experience on the surf server, I know for a fact that a lot of people leave when rainbow is voted, a VERY popular map. I know that people leave when 10x is voted, air arena, etc.
People leave when prelude is voted, when halofuse is voted, when twilight is voted, when utopia is voted, etc, etc.

A server will always lose a chunk of players upon ANY map change, no matter what map got voted, for a variety of reasons (occurs an all servers on all valve games running any gamemode).

Map changes make good stopping points to disconnect and do something else.
Of course, you have the people who leave because they don't like the new map, which is fine, because no map will ever have a 100% approval rating with a player base (no matter how hard you try to make a rotation with only "popular" maps).
However, these players who leave are quickly replaced by new players, as the player drop from a map change to even the most hated map (10x, or revolution when it was still there) will never result in a full 32/32 server dropping to zero players because of a map, like you seem to imply.

Sure, "half the server" (exaggeration, the effect of a map change is not that severe) leaves, some because they simply want to stop playing, which has nothing to do with the map, and some who quit because of the map.
What happens next?
Those players are replaced by new ones and the server goes back to full (or mostly full, depends on the time of day since the server has peak and off peak hours).

I don't understand why Bottiger is so determined to hold on to that small portion of disconnects who leave because of the map that got voted is one that they personally don't like.
By constructing a small map rotation of these specific maps that appeal to the most players possible, you sacrifice variety and the ability for players to progress through the surf difficulty scale in order to have a chance at player retention.
But all people have their specific maps they like and dislike, people will leave as a result of (literally any surf map here) being voted. So what does the limited rotation accomplish, since ALL people will never be happy with any map?
Is the goal to retain as many people as possible? Because even if 5 extra people leave as an unpopular map is picked (versus "popular" map), they will just get replaced in 10 minutes anyways, and server is back to full.
The main reasons I see player counts drop is time, as players are lost during off-peak hours due to being late night or very early morning when very few people are even playing the game (Gametracker shows a regular pattern of player activity drops and increases over longer periods of time, with no sudden decline that is not present the day before).

Oh, and one more thing.
I fail to see how the frequency of a map being played, or playtime of a map, has anything to do with the amount of people leaving as a direct result of the chosen map. That seems to have much more to do with the quality of the map and play-style it promotes. (ex. utopia promotes camping by having very easy surf with sniper box as reward, but also promotes deathmatch type gameplay for those who want that, while rainbow promotes camping and farming to the elite who can finish that map, while the rest of the players (ones being camped) cuss at and vote kick/slay the few who finished the map and are using their earned rewards)

Since each map has a play-style that is optimal for that map, players who enjoy that play-style will like it, and players who dont, wont. There is no satisfying everyone. Stop sacrificing variety and progression (please actually read the bottom half of the rant post where I discuss this thank you) chasing this golden rotation of maps.
 
Yeah but you should gave it more time for people to have thoughts about it, so if they dont like it they go to the forums and rant.

The maps have been on the server for a long time already. I would have removed them even if they ranted about it because they are obviously the vocal minority.

Here are the map rankings.

Code:
surf_10x_tf2_complete 10402.964304150597
surf_air_arena_v4 3721.3130935940985
surf_utopia_v3 2689.689299313119
surf_halofuse_v2d 2619.294673812196
surf_venice_v3e 1586.786205312517
surf_rainbow_v3 1397.1049356077876
surf_autumnal_fix 1380.5741554168324
surf_rainbow_v2 1315.2920921302857
surf_horizon_v3 1124.69650627054
surf_nameless 861.5727551702493
surf_forbidden_ways_reloaded 835.462837917097
surf_twilight_rc2 824.8478065681545
surf_crater_v2a 612.8480083340551
surf_lament_n2p 596.1278059894374
surf_quack_v2 277.9494331397693
surf_snow_arena_v3 231.50351494108546

Sometimes I wish that we could see this statistic. (pls add new tab to stats page :( )

Don't really want to do this. There are a lot of communities out there that try to copy everything we do and that would make it easier for them to do so.
 
The maps have been on the server for a long time already. I would have removed them even if they ranted about it because they are obviously the vocal minority.

Don't really want to do this. There are a lot of communities out there that try to copy everything we do and that would make it easier for them to do so.

Please do. Lack of clarity has been a big issue for DR servers too, I constantly have to inform players that backrooms was removed for what I assume was "being unpopular" because there's no place to find that info.

Also..."There are a lot of communities out there that try to copy everything we do and that would make it easier for them to do so."

Why does this matter? If it helps players understand key changes to the servers they frequent then it's a net positive. If Skial servers are good then you won't need to worry about copycat communities doing the same thing.
 
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The maps have been on the server for a long time already. I would have removed them even if they ranted about it because they are obviously the vocal minority.

Here are the map rankings.

Code:
surf_10x_tf2_complete 10402.964304150597
surf_air_arena_v4 3721.3130935940985
surf_utopia_v3 2689.689299313119
surf_halofuse_v2d 2619.294673812196
surf_venice_v3e 1586.786205312517
surf_rainbow_v3 1397.1049356077876
surf_autumnal_fix 1380.5741554168324
surf_rainbow_v2 1315.2920921302857
surf_horizon_v3 1124.69650627054
surf_nameless 861.5727551702493
surf_forbidden_ways_reloaded 835.462837917097
surf_twilight_rc2 824.8478065681545
surf_crater_v2a 612.8480083340551
surf_lament_n2p 596.1278059894374
surf_quack_v2 277.9494331397693
surf_snow_arena_v3 231.50351494108546



Don't really want to do this. There are a lot of communities out there that try to copy everything we do and that would make it easier for them to do so.
would also be nice to see stats for maps specifically for skial servers, a map like 10x has its popularity inflated by other trade surf servers which have it going 24/7, 10x seems not to be liked by the skial community and people seem to rtv it as soon as it gets picked.
 
Please do. Lack of clarity has been a big issue for DR servers too, I constantly have to inform players that backrooms was removed for what I assume was "being unpopular" because there's no place to find that info.

Also..."There are a lot of communities out there that try to copy everything we do and that would make it easier for them to do so."

Why does this matter? If it helps players understand key changes to the servers they frequent then it's a net positive. If Skial servers are good then you won't need to worry about copycat communities doing the same thing.

It does strike me a bit odd. Unless bottigier's servers actively monitor if someone is constantly looking at what map server is running and player count and injecting some false data, it'd be trivial for someone to just monitor the server and see what maps are popular and copy that. Gametracker does it, albeit they limit what they show to you (E.g. no time selection for fav maps).
Though I wasn't exactly clear on exactly what I had in mind and the "new tab" was hinting at more than I intended, I do hope for a line on the graph indicating map change and what map it was.
 
Why does this matter? If it helps players understand key changes to the servers they frequent then it's a net positive. If Skial servers are good then you won't need to worry about copycat communities doing the same thing.

From my experience, players don't need the numbers to understand it. Those with a brain will know that the maps we remove are unpopular.

The ones that are complaining have a personal bias towards the map or have no sense of how popular a map is. I don't blame them though, it isn't easy to tell how popular a map is better than a program can.

That's why our servers are the top servers for their game modes even though others have had more customization.

It does strike me a bit odd. Unless bottigier's servers actively monitor if someone is constantly looking at what map server is running and player count and injecting some false data, it'd be trivial for someone to just monitor the server and see what maps are popular and copy that. Gametracker does it, albeit they limit what they show to you (E.g. no time selection for fav maps).

You can't just use gametracker they are completely inaccurate. They cannot tell if players are spoofed, they only count how long a map has been running on a servers and does not account for how many players are on it, and they only tell you the top 5 or so maps.

If it was as easy as using gametracker, then why would I have bothered making our own program for it? And why is our surf and deathrun servers the top servers if it was as easy as looking at gametracker?

People just need to trust that whatever map we remove is unpopular or causes crashes unless it is an obvious mistake. I've only removed 1 map on accident in the past 6 years.
 
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The maps have been on the server for a long time already. I would have removed them even if they ranted about it because they are obviously the vocal minority.

Here are the map rankings.

Code:
surf_10x_tf2_complete 10402.964304150597
surf_air_arena_v4 3721.3130935940985
surf_utopia_v3 2689.689299313119
surf_halofuse_v2d 2619.294673812196
surf_venice_v3e 1586.786205312517
surf_rainbow_v3 1397.1049356077876
surf_autumnal_fix 1380.5741554168324
surf_rainbow_v2 1315.2920921302857
surf_horizon_v3 1124.69650627054
surf_nameless 861.5727551702493
surf_forbidden_ways_reloaded 835.462837917097
surf_twilight_rc2 824.8478065681545
surf_crater_v2a 612.8480083340551
surf_lament_n2p 596.1278059894374
surf_quack_v2 277.9494331397693
surf_snow_arena_v3 231.50351494108546



Don't really want to do this. There are a lot of communities out there that try to copy everything we do and that would make it easier for them to do so.
Yeah but why was crater better then lament but crater got removed? I feel like the communitity of skial has more power than the admins because we decide to play on this server. Next time leave it to the community to let is have a decision by making a poll or something like that. All of us are glad that crater is back. But it doesn't mean that we won't be happy with the server yet.
 
Yeah but why was crater better then lament but crater got removed? I feel like the communitity of skial has more power than the admins because we decide to play on this server. Next time leave it to the community to let is have a decision by making a poll or something like that. All of us are glad that crater is back. But it doesn't mean that we won't be happy with the server yet.

Because lament was higher than crater when I checked the stats a week ago. And lament should probably be removed as well.

Polls are useless. Only the vocal minority will bother doing the poll.