Approved [ZE] Make Flamethrowers and Map Slows Cancel Bhop

[im a woo]

Make Pyros flamethrower as well as any map damage, player_speedmod or trigger_stun cancel any players ability to Bhop.

Map slow items (player_speedmod) typically had slowed players velocity in any direction so they couldn't be Bhopped through in CS, yet in TF2 since they only slow player movement speed these things can be ignored with Bhop.
Pyros flamethrowers I also believe should cancel Bhop as Pyros main role in ZE is to stall hordes of zombies, and the addition of Bhop made Pyros job far too risky and less desirable for the team.

As for how Bhop can be cancelled, I imagine simply removing the ability to Bhop while affected by these things could work (similar to enzymes), but slowing velocity of Zombies registered as Bhopping would be more effective.

 

[INeedToBeBuffed]

Make Pyros flamethrower as well as any map damage, player_speedmod or trigger_stun cancel any players ability to Bhop.

Map slow items (player_speedmod) typically had slowed players velocity in any direction so they couldn't be Bhopped through in CS, yet in TF2 since they only slow player movement speed these things can be ignored with Bhop.
Pyros flamethrowers I also believe should cancel Bhop as Pyros main role in ZE is to stall hordes of zombies, and the addition of Bhop made Pyros job far too risky and less desirable for the team.

As for how Bhop can be cancelled, I imagine simply removing the ability to Bhop while affected by these things could work (similar to enzymes), but slowing velocity of Zombies registered as Bhopping would be more effective.

Just make a suggestion to remove Bhop instead :D

 

[im a woo]

Just make a suggestion to remove Bhop instead :D

I do think current Bhop is OP but I feel it could work if it was tweaked in certain ways such as actually require timing or mwheel knowledge as it adds spice to ZM gameplay
Also easily outspeeding any speed boost items is also OP

 

[INeedToBeBuffed]

I do think current Bhop is OP but I feel it could work if it was tweaked in certain ways such as actually require timing or mwheel knowledge as it adds spice to ZM gameplay
Also easily outspeeding any speed boost items is also OP

Tweaked to stop functioning for both Zombie and Human teams.

 

[caya1]

Make Pyros flamethrower as well as any map damage, player_speedmod or trigger_stun cancel any players ability to Bhop.

Map slow items (player_speedmod) typically had slowed players velocity in any direction so they couldn't be Bhopped through in CS, yet in TF2 since they only slow player movement speed these things can be ignored with Bhop.
Pyros flamethrowers I also believe should cancel Bhop as Pyros main role in ZE is to stall hordes of zombies, and the addition of Bhop made Pyros job far too risky and less desirable for the team.

As for how Bhop can be cancelled, I imagine simply removing the ability to Bhop while affected by these things could work (similar to enzymes), but slowing velocity of Zombies registered as Bhopping would be more effective.

+1

CS also had molotovs and grenades on ZE servers which TF2 does not so it changes the gameplay dynamic when handling bhoppers in TF2. The closet thing would be demos with sticky bombs which kind of substitutes for HE nades in CS, but right now aside from map items on certain maps there is no substitute for molotovs from CS which caused a wall of fire that slowed zombies on some servers which was useful for falling back and to keep zombies from rushing in at certain tight chokepoints.

This is a good idea rather than just removing bhopping altogether because it creates more usefulness for pyro while still keeping bhopping for players who enjoy it. So instead of people saying "heavies and engies" everytime a hard level comes up, they will say "heavies engies and pyros". Right now pyros are not too useful but the pyros specifically being anti-bhop adds gameplay depth imo.

Right now, the most useful classes are heavies, engies, demos. Medics, soldiers, scouts are useful for specific purposes, healng for specific bosses and areas, conch for speed boost and scouts are useful for fast trigger. Pyros are ok but a bit less useful. Spies/snipers even less useful and they both need buffs.

 

[Siffrin]

This would require a lot more effort but making the gas passer function like a molotov might be an interesting idea.

 

[Lord Zuko]

remove bhop :D

 

[caya1]

@Bottiger

Buff pyro to so the class can function as anti-bhop. The balancing in general needs to be a bit more friendly to humans in general anyway, many maps are too hard to win compared to how they were on CSGO, like Santassination and diddle. Having played CSGO ZE for thousands of hours, I can tell you that Santassination Extreme mode in CSGO is balanced how Santassination Regular is on Skial's ZE. Santassination's regular mode was not meant to have such a low win rate like it does now. Santa regular mode was supposed to be "win once every month or so" challenging not "win once every 1 or 2 years" challenging. Extreme mode was the "win once a year" challenging one. Nerfing Socrates health, the final boss, could be a start to making the map reasonably winnable. Diddle is the same thing, it supposed to be "win every 1-3 months" for diddle not "win almost never" for diddle.

Although for some reason some maps are easier to win in Skial compared to CSGO. I think something like MOLOTOVS could be added too so it's easier for humans to fall back at chokepoints, and be anti-bhop and will make the map balance in general more like how it was intended. I don't think bhop should be removed because many players like it, but there should be anti bhop options for people.

Maps that are harder to win in Skial:
Santassination
Diddle
Best Korea
Aesthetic
Grau
Random (elevator part in one of the minigames is not ported correctly, the zombies are exiting the elevator too early.) Edit: Actually now that I think about it, that may have been how it was in CSGO too, but humans has molotovs and nades to slow down zombies better when they exit the elevator)
Randomizer (please for the love of god fix FEZ minigame that instakills any run. This is how the map always was, but this one minigame is so bad it ruins what is otherwise a solid map and dissatisfies players. I suggest just freezing zombies entirely for most of the minigame's duration)
Inboxed?
surf sahok

Maps that are, for some reason, easier to win in Skial:
Pirates port royal
frostdrake tower

 

[caya1]

@Bottiger

Also some suggestions for buffing pyro

Option 1: All pyro flamethrower disables bhop for the player using it for 3 seconds.

Option 2: All pyro flamethrowers buffed

+20% flame range
+20% flame width
+5% knockback
+5% Pyro movement speed
+Both GAS PASSER and THERMAL THRUSTER function as a molotov in, for example, GFL's ZE servers in CSGO/CS2, creating a small wall of fire that slows zombies as they pass it. Which would especially be useful for maps with tighter corridors like OBJ maps that are basically impossible without excessive tryharding.