Declined Sort out your ban system

[hr]

There was a guy in EU dustbowl 1 today spamming trade binds. I told him to stop, he did it more. I made a ban request it got 80% yes and it failed to meet the 90% requirement. He then decides to post one about me simply for making the one against him (accusing me of racism) but instead uses the mute function so it only needs 70%, of course it passes. He then decides to taunt me constantly through the chat and tells people I'm a hacker to which I cannot defend myself. This happens every time anyone makes any kind of these ban requests, no-one reads them and the majority of players will vote yes for anything but not so many that any kind of ban ever usually happens yet every time someone gets mad and blindly calls a vote on me usually because they think I'm a hacker it gets 50 - 70%.

Get rid of this system and make it so that only 'trusted' players can call and respond to votes. My system for this would be to use something like your AP except it shouldn't rely on being in some steam group, with points being earned by playing and lost by getting banned or muted or regularly voting against the winning vote (i.e players with 1000 points+ can vote and no-one else). Abuse of the system would mean a ban from being 'trusted'. Or maybe this sucks and you need something else but it's terrible as it is right now.

As for the guy today it's this guy http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198118604784
http://cloud-4.steampowered.com/ugc/544135968731757959/E1A0D5680B11F2874B6C2D1A2C34C62392824D85/

 

[jwso]

or alternatively you could contact an admin to handle the situation without having to deal with retards

 

[KillerZebra]

If you had called a silence on him for spamming instead of a ban everything would of worked out for you. You don't need to ban someone for spamming. That option is there for hackers, exploiting, ect.

If that didn't pass, we have a section dedicated to reporting people who break the rules.
https://www.skial.com/forums/reports.38/

So if the vote didn't work, report him for spamming. If he abused the votemenu on you, report him for spamming and abusing the votemenu.

 

[hr]

or alternatively you could contact an admin to handle the situation without having to deal with retards

Then why does the votemenu system even exist? Even if I realised contacting an admin was something one could do surely it just creates more problems for admins coming to real with fake reports? I'm fine with getting rid of the votemenu thing entirely and just leaving it to admins if that is easier than making some whole new thing.

 

[Deadfront]

Then why does the votemenu system even exist? Even if I realised contacting an admin was something one could do surely it just creates more problems for admins coming to real with fake reports? I'm fine with getting rid of the votemenu thing entirely and just leaving it to admins if that is easier than making some whole new thing.

Our job is to deal with any issues players have of rule breaking no matter how minor.

 

[hr]

If you had called a silence on him for spamming instead of a ban everything would of worked out for you..

Irrelevant. If I shouldn't have made a ban request for that offense then don't have it as an option, telling me that if I'd have made it a silence request instead it would have worked out doesn't hide the flaws of the system in that regardless of the legitimacy of the request it always gets 50 - 85% in my personal experience.

Our job is to deal with any issues players have of rule breaking no matter how minor.

That's fine but it doesn't answer my question, why does the votemenu system exist when it does not work and is constantly abused?

 

[KillerZebra]

Its not irreverent. Your vote got 80% yes. If you called a silence it would of passed and this wouldn't of happened.

Most of the time when I call a vote on someone who is clearly doing something wrong it passes. Sometimes it doesn't, and it that case you can just report the guy.

If you look here
https://www.skial.com/sourcebans/index.php?p=banlist&advSearch=0&advType=admin
https://www.skial.com/sourcebans/index.php?p=commslist&advSearch=0&advType=admin

You can see the votemenu clearly does work. Silences happen more often than bans. Its better to call a silence for spam than a ban for spam. Most people, like me, don't want to ban someone for spamming.

You wouldn't silence a player for hacking. Don't ban a player for spamming. Use the better option.

 

[Sheev_Palpatine]

When all else fails, make a manual report.

 

[hr]

Its not irreverent. Your vote got 80% yes. If you called a silence it would of passed and this wouldn't of happened.

Most of the time when I call a vote on someone who is clearly doing something wrong it passes. Sometimes it doesn't, and it that case you can just report the guy.

If you look here
https://www.skial.com/sourcebans/index.php?p=banlist&advSearch=0&advType=admin
https://www.skial.com/sourcebans/index.php?p=commslist&advSearch=0&advType=admin

You can see the votemenu clearly does work. Silences happen more often than bans. Its better to call a silence for spam than a ban for spam. Most people, like me, don't want to ban someone for spamming.

You wouldn't silence a player for hacking. Don't ban a player for spamming. Use the better option.

I've explained why it's irrelevant and I don't think silencing someone does enough, if one should not ban a player for spamming then do not list it as an option, simple as that. I didn't say that no-one ever gets banned or silenced what I said was the system sucks. Almost every single time I go on skial someone makes a report about me and there is not one time it's not got over 50% yes WITH NO EVIDENCE. What I'm saying is you cannot put the power of these votes into the average player's hands because they just don't care or are too ignorant to work out whether voting yes or no is the correct decision. Perhaps suggesting a new system is a little ambitious but I'm very convinced in my opinion that you should remove the votemenu system.

 

[Sir Cakez]

I'm curious: Why is there a ban option for spamming in the vote menu?

 

[KillerZebra]

http://stats.skial.com/stats/hlstats.php?mode=chat&game=tf&server_id=0&filter="[U:1:73429701]"
Not that many reports or votes on you.

I didn't say you shouldn't ban someone for spamming, I said you should use the better option and silence them. You will get the exact same result. You will either ban him for 30 minutes, which in the time he cannot talk or type. Or silence him for 30 minutes. Which he cannot talk or type. One just requires less % votes, and it obviously a better and easier option.

The server isn't about you. It doesn't matter what you feel should be the proper punishment. If not enough people want to ban someone for spamming in a vote, thats their choice. That isn't a flaw in the matrix. Meanwhile, people find silencing someone for spamming to be a better choice.

The system is very effective and works just fine, and it won't be removed because it doesn't work to your liking.

Also, maybe people call votes on you because you break the rules yourself.
http://stats.skial.com/stats/hlstats.php?mode=chathistory&player=712790&filter="admin"

 

[KillerZebra]

I'm curious: Why is there a ban option for spamming in the vote menu?

There are other ways of spamming besides mic and chat.

 

[hr]

http://stats.skial.com/stats/hlstats.php?mode=chat&game=tf&server_id=0&filter="[U:1:73429701]"
Also, maybe people call votes on you because you break the rules yourself.
http://stats.skial.com/stats/hlstats.php?mode=chathistory&player=712790&filter="admin"

Fair enough maybe it is against the rules to tell people I'm an admin but let's not pretend that was why, I don't see why I can't have a little fun with them for a harmless reason. Those votes that you've posted are from the last 10 days and are hardly representative of all the times people have called votes on me or other people for no reason while I've been in that server, maybe it isn't every single time on me when I play but it sure feels like it.

http://stats.skial.com/stats/hlstats.php?mode=chat&game=tf&server_id=0&filter="[U:1:73429701]"
The system is very effective and works just fine, and it won't be removed because it doesn't work to your liking.

Because it bans a lot of people that makes it effective? The amount of times I see someone falsely banned by your system seems to suggest otherwise.

 

[Meowrisa]

This is seriously a suggestion?
-1.

No ban system can be perfect, deal with the flaws of the easy way (votemenu) or go the slightly less easy way thats more reliable (admins).

 

[hr]

No ban system can be perfect, deal with the flaws of the easy way (votemenu) or go the slightly less easy way thats more reliable (admins).

I feel like you've missed the point entirely. When the 'easy way' gets people wrongly banned as much as it does rightly then the system is bad. Unfortunately we've no way of knowing what the ratio of fair to unjust bans is but from what I've seen it's pretty high.

 

[Meowrisa]

I feel like you've missed the point entirely. When the 'easy way' gets people wrongly banned as much as it does rightly then the system is bad. Unfortunately we've no way of knowing what the ratio of fair to unjust bans is but from what I've seen it's pretty high.

The thing is, if you get unfairly silenced an admin can usually remove it for you if you have proof.
What I do is lay low on the server, so that I'm not generally a target, and then if someone does something report it anonymously to an admin on my friendslist or make a report in the reports section.

I mean, to each his own, but there is no alternative to the votemenu. So it's either keep it or remove it. I would prefer to keep it for the people who are too lazy or new to get admins online.

 

[hr]

there is no alternative to the votemenu. So it's either keep it or remove it. I would prefer to keep it for the people who are too lazy or new to get admins online.

There is an alternative, perhaps my suggestion is not it but just because no-ones thought of it doesn't mean it's the only way.

The thing is, if you get unfairly silenced an admin can usually remove it for you if you have proof..

When that happens I just want to play not load up my web browser and come to a website to appeal a ban.

I'd rather have an experience where unless people are doing some real shit like hacking or racism then they're allowed to get away with it for a while than having a system where people regularly get silenced or even banned for nothing. Not everyone has an admin on their friends list nor should they need to to play a game in peace. What about having a command to call or alert an admin in game instead?

 

[TapTap]

What about having a command to call or alert an admin in game instead?

!report

 

[Sir Gooch P Tigglington]

I don't think silencing someone does enough

Why not? Silencing the person will end the spam, I fail to see the problem here?

Also regarding your suggestion about having only "trusted" people that can call for reports and bans, that's a nice idea in theory but would never be feasible to implement. Not to mention the fact that you would never be one considering your own egregious violations of Skial's rules.

 

[hr]

Not to mention the fact that you would never be one considering your own egregious violations of Skial's rules.

I'm fine with not being one and it was simply a suggestion, but egregious?
egregious
ɪˈɡriːdʒəs/
adjective
adjective: egregious

1. 1.
   outstandingly bad; shocking.
   "egregious abuses of copyright"

Come on now you must really have just wanted to use a big word, I hardly think it's definition applies here.

!report

Then why does votemenu exist? As I've said the amount of times it is abused makes it not worth having, just get rid of it and only have the report system.