Declined Vsh 2 weighdowns

[Miles Kilo]

Hello there, in this thread I just want to suggest removing the explosive weighdown to make it more fun for others for example scouts can't deal with the explosive weighdown abuse only rocket jumping soldiers and flare pyros like yeah most classes can't deal with a hale that abuses the explosive weighdown so I suggest we remove it I'm not saying remove the actual thing that makes you go down faster I mean the explosive part of it

+1 for yes
-1 for no

 

[Hankman]

+1 stop the aboose

 

[Skep]

+1

 

[True Darkian]

-1

The hale win rates are really low, this is a good ability that is actually not too overpowered but still helps agains't targets that are just constantly running or jumping away like rocket jumping Soldiers.
It is already easy to tell when a hale wants to do a weighdown, so you have time to dodge it.

Lately, there are a ton of players with the goal just to delay the round by just rocket jumping, flare jumping or going invisible, the explosive weighdown is a tool that gives the hale a chance to do an Area of Effect damage that can drain their health if timed correctly, preventing further delaying.

Removing this would crash the already low Hale win rate to the ground.

 

[Opb]

-1 to removing it in its entirety

+1 to adding a cooldown to the weighdown explosion to stop it being used every jump hale does, i can give demos of this happening if needed. The explosion turns hales who know how to use it at every possible opportunity the ability to destroy anyone they deem fit. Which is why I am forced as a red player to go pyro and try to deal damage that way while having to airblast the hale away or flare jumping to escape as it is so annoying to try and play against.

Cooldown ideas:
One weighdown explosion available every 8
(6 atleast) seconds.

P.S There are 3 different types of weighdown:

The bhop weighdown (like the bhop market gardener bug)
The Dolphin weighdown AKA the instant weighdown
The standard after every jump weighdown

 

[HamBurger]

+1

 

[Pig]

+1
Weighdown was implemented to balance beginner hales to the RED team. However, when more experienced players get a hold of it it can be so easily abused. It can become unenjoyable to play against and overall tiresome and repetitive if put into the wrong hands.
Don't get me wrong, the function is a really inventive idea and is extremely fun. But in support of Opb's statement, a cooldown or restriction is extremely necessary .
I've always thought that the excuse of "win rates are too low" is so overly petty and flawed. Win rates don't have to be so sky-rocketingly high that it becomes unenjoyable for the other team, people want to have a challenge while playing Hale, they want to improve and develop and experience it. Bumping up Hale win rates will inevitably bump up more experienced players win rates, turning them into an impossible player to beat.
A large majority of the public has spoken out about this, claiming that it is unbalanced. I always think a good idea is listening to the people. :)

Possible Cooldown Ideas:
- One weighdown every 30 seconds.
8 seconds is almost as fast as it can take to recover jump and do it again, so Opb's suggestion for me is far too frequent.
- Minimizing the explosion radius drastically.
Weighdowning into a mosh of people is essentially a bomb, either killing or damaging the others.
- Patching the weighdown water bug.
This bug is extremely aggravating to play against. Once a person grasps the ability to do this, they will abuse this till days end. Patch this.

Pig.

 

[mub]

-1

Absolutely not.
VSH is still very RED-sided and this is a useful tool for Hales to handle high DPS classes such as BFB scouts, Trolldiers, Spies, etc.
The smoke also creates a good blind that gives Hale a cover for doing anything nearby for a few seconds.

I will agree that it is very powerful and not the perfect solution, but we cannot remove it yet.

 

[Miles Kilo]

-1

Absolutely not.
VSH is still very RED-sided and this is a useful tool for Hales to handle high DPS classes such as BFB scouts, Trolldiers, Spies, etc.
The smoke also creates a good blind that gives Hale a cover for doing anything nearby for a few seconds.

I will agree that it is very powerful and not the perfect solution, but we cannot remove it yet.

Rage exists

Each hale has a special rage which can do the trick
Saxton hale: Longest rage range meaning scouts will die, trolldiers will die when they land
Vagineer: uber
Hhh: normal rage but he can use it with the ability to Tele
Cbs: bow and arrow
Bunny: bombs

 

[mub]

Rage exists

Each hale has a special rage which can do the trick
Saxton hale: Longest rage range meaning scouts will die, trolldiers will die when they land
Vagineer: uber
Hhh: normal rage but he can use it with the ability to Tele
Cbs: bow and arrow
Bunny: I guess in this case his rage is useless so maybe give the weighdown ability only to him? With a cool down to prevent abuse

I agree that the tools are absolutely available for the players, but that still doesn't stop the fact that Hales don't use them and/or still lose a lot more than they should.
Nerfing Hale by removing a tool from his kit when he absolutely shouldn't be getting nerfed doesn't seem right in any regard.

Also, none of these rages guarantee that you can handle the scouts and soldiers, either.

 

[Feral Angel]

-1
I don’t see a problem with the explosion. Helps get rid of scouts, like stomping your foot at a roach

 

[Miles Kilo]

-1
I don’t see a problem with the explosion. Helps get rid of scouts, like stomping your foot at a roach

It helps yeah but it's abuseable which makes it unfun plus really? Scouts
Scouts don't have invisible watch or a flare/rocket launcher to jump to the next dimension only bonk which can be countered and so can the force a nature

 

[mub]

It helps yeah but it's abuseable which makes it unfun plus really? Scouts

There are dozens upon dozens of "abusable, unfun" mechanics in VSH, it'd take awhile to remove them all.

 

[Miles Kilo]

There are dozens upon dozens of "abusable, unfun" mechanics in VSH, it'd take awhile to remove them all.

Well even if it takes a while why not just do it anyways if it makes the community happier its like making a video game then people complaining about some bugs and you go like
"Eh that's a lot of bugs it would take a while so I ain't doing it"

 

[mub]

Well even if it takes a while why not just do it anyways if it makes the community happier

Because it'd take awhile. And I don't think we should start with making Hale any harder than it currently is.

 

[Miles Kilo]

Because it'd take awhile. And I don't think we should start with making Hale any harder than it currently is.

Hale isn't hard and even it if it takes a while bruh it's like valve ignoring the bot problem in tf2

 

[mub]

Hale isn't hard

Hale only wins ~35% of the time, currently. He might not be "hard" but he's already weak in current balancing. I don't want to weaken him anymore, the gamemode was never meant to be as RED-sided as it is currently and this certainly wouldn't help that position.

 

[Miles Kilo]

Hale only wins ~35% of the time, currently. He might not be "hard" but he's already weak in current balancing. I don't want to weaken him anymore, the gamemode was never meant to be as RED-sided as it is currently and this certainly wouldn't help that position.

Well there are other ways to balance hale other than adding an abuseable mechanic

Like longer rage effect tone it might be annoying but atleast hale can't do it every 5 seconds
Or reducing knockback of specific weapons like force a nature

 

[mub]

Well there are other ways to balance hale other than adding an abuseable mechanic

Yes. This mechanic has been around for awhile, it's not currently being "added." You're trying to remove it, before any other ways to balance Hale are being introduced. I'm for removing this mechanic, but not before we get the issue of general balancing sorted out.

 

[Miles Kilo]

Yes. This mechanic has been around for awhile, it's not currently being "added." You're trying to remove it, before any other ways to balance Hale are being introduced. I'm for removing this mechanic, but not before we get the issue of general balancing sorted out.

Alright here is an idea to balance hale

More knockback resistance

Longer rage effect time

Maybe give him some damage resistance

And make him immune to almost all knockback while crouched to prevent of loose Cannon and vents abuse like some people abuse they go in vents and camp with loose Cannon or make so the mantreads give me the soldier less hp from medkits so he doesn't delay
There are a lot of things you can think of to balance hale