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mub

Positively Inhumane Poster
Contributor
Note to moderator(s): Please move this thread if you believe this is incorrect to place here, thanks!

I would like start by apologizing if it seems like this communication regarding this particular event is late. I’ve been very busy for the last few weeks between work, learning, personal projects and some personal health issues and have had very little time to slow down and look at things. By the time I did, I was able to start seeing the actual scope of how much the pot was being stirred, coinciding with how much I started to get DM’d about this.

I would like to formally apologize to @Bottiger if it seemed I had just abruptly stopped work on Skial VSH; the intention was moreso that I felt had helped with Skial’s VSH2 balance as best as I could with the given parameters. I was still largely prepared to check in with Skial VSH to continue to monitor for potential issues should they arise, but after seeing I had been removed from the balancing position, I ended up dropping this plan.

Speaking of VSH2, I would like to put forward that the project I’m working on is NOT supposed to be a direct competitor specifically to Skial, nor is it even going to be VSH2. I’m involved with a more serious, longer term project that we are going to call VSH3 because we intend to drastically change many of the components of the gamemode.

Bottiger and I may have not seen eye to eye all the time on how we should go about balancing the mode, but I completely agree with him in the analogy that balancing current, modern VSH is like trying to keep a boat from sinking with a spoon. Modern VSH’s status quo has strayed so far from the original design that it saddens me, and I aim to take a crack at redesigning and redefining that status quo altogether.

We’re attracting attention from regulars and veterans from BLW, VSHData, TBC, DISC-FF, even pulling some old farts out of the woodwork from all over, not just Skial. Point being that this is meant to be a new and experimental creative venture for anyone to try out and enjoy (or critique!)

So, on to the drama. I’m not quite surprised, but ultimately disappointed all around on peoples’ behavior.

To those of you going out of your way to antagonize Skial, cut it out. There’s no point to acting so immature and flagrant about it, if you don’t like the server, just stop playing on it. I and others in the servers we share as the overall VSH community have condemned this type of conduct repeatedly. I understand this has been an overall communal issue spanning years I realistically can’t stop, but nonetheless, I’m going to make a point to post this forum post to the relevant Discord servers because I would like to cement my stance on this topic. Stop looking for drama and, for God’s sake, play the damn game.

To the Skial staff, I’m sorry that you had to deal with the uncivilized nonsense some of these people put up for you. While I do not necessarily agree with Skial’s rules on the matter, I fully support and respect your right to enforce your rules on items such as advertising as you see fit, and have no qualms with them getting punished for breaking the rules. As much as I would like to help you, this is unfortunately likely the most I can do.

That being said, I also urge you not to not stoop to their level. It really encourages them. I understand that my server might’ve been a catalyst for this shift in the social dynamic, and some of these people have been stressful to handle to say the least, but talking about them or me in a derogatory manner will just continue to fuel the fire. Of course, hopefully we can put the fire out once and for all right here.



In conclusion, let me reiterate. I’m asking for a ceasefire from everyone. No more talking shit and starting fights. Drop it. Just play the game you want to play and leave it at that.
 

Bottiger

Administrator
I don't think this is the place to post something like this. As you probably already know, most of the people that play on our own VSH servers don't even use our own forums or discord. They are on private discords such as your own.

Due to the fact that much of this happened in private Discords and leaked out to our server chat, nobody really knows how involved you are with this kind of behavior, but you can't be blameless.

You were granted a lot of power to manage the balance on our server for the past half a year and more. And yet when people kept blaming me for things that you put into motion, you did not bother correcting them. You did not bother telling me people were going around spreading this misinformation. You let this misinformation spread until we had dozens of players in game chat telling people every day that I was to blame for everything they didn't like on the server.

So it is really amusing that these people are leaving Skial to wait for your server.

We are not stooping to their level in any way. As far as I can tell, everything we've said about this was factual.

Idea of giving vagineer more uber.

haste.png


Putting crits on bosses again which included crits on eggs

crit.png



Adding gentlespy.

gentlspy.png


Making airblast cost more ammo.

airblast.png
 

mub

Positively Inhumane Poster
Contributor
I don't think this is the place to post something like this. As you probably already know, most of the people that play on our own VSH servers don't even use our own forums or discord. They are on private discords such as your own.

Due to the fact that much of this happened in private Discords and leaked out to our server chat, nobody really knows how involved you are with this kind of behavior, but you can't be blameless.

You were granted a lot of power to manage the balance on our server for the past half a year and more. And yet when people kept blaming me for things that you put into motion, you did not bother correcting them. You did not bother telling me people were going around spreading this misinformation. You let this misinformation spread until we had dozens of players in game chat telling people every day that I was to blame for everything they didn't like on the server.

So it is really amusing that these people are leaving Skial to wait for your server.

We are not stooping to their level in any way. As far as I can tell, everything we've said about this was factual.

Idea of giving vagineer more uber.

haste.png


Putting crits on bosses again which included crits on eggs

crit.png



Adding gentlespy.

gentlspy.png


Making airblast cost more ammo.

airblast.png

Don't worry, this forum post is posted to all relevant private discords.

I am certainly not blameless at all regarding the balancing. Some of my ideas end up turning out terrible. These four items pictured all are indeed my ideas, and I tried them all thinking they would work out well. They did not, and I agree that they are not as good as I had hoped them to turn out;

Vagineer is difficult because you would like to balance him according to statistics, and all things considered, I think he's just kind of poorly designed, unfortunately. One of those things that existed forever that never got changed.
The bunny crit eggs I did not consider a huge issue because they did not affect winrate very much and seemed like one of those items that people nitpicked for how powerful they appeared, but I imagine disabling crits or adding minicrit on crit for Bunny would easily solve this.
Gentlespy you can do what you wish with, I think taking away his gun should be plenty personally, but maybe he should just be removed altogether.
Airblast cost I reverted in the most recent config I sent to you via DMs so that you can reenable airblast resist, or whichever change you'd prefer.

However, my understanding is that while these are indeed issues, these were not the main ones that the players in question left Skial over. Most of the changes that made them leave were items like a lack of knockback, the handling of superjump, map rotation issues, etc. That being said, I know that you would like to keep these items to your standards, and that they still draw a large crowd. My personal theory is that VSH is now divided between classical and modern design, and that there's a crowd for one, the other, or both. Whatever the case, I wish you the best of luck in determining how to go about the future of how you would like to tackle it. At the end of the day, there's a particular way you would like to run your servers, and while I understood it, I don't think I was ever able to fully follow it, therefore failing on that merit.

When I said stooping to their level, I meant the items that were not factual. The ones that were purely meant to be insulting, offensive, derogatory, etc. to these players. I don't think it's fair to expect players to not to speak their mind, however wrong or right they are, when what's being said about them both in public and private is not of a respectful nature.
 

Bottiger

Administrator
As far as I can tell, there is no one on our "side" that is spreading any lies about you. No one on this "side" is saying you were responsible for something that you didn't do, unlike the people that blamed me for adding ammo cost to flamethower, making easter eggs crit, increasing uber length on vagineer. There were more people complaining about these things than the others. You could have taken the responsibility for the things that you did but it appears that you simply let the misinformation spread.

There is no one on this "side" telling everyone on your server to leave and that they hope your community dies. There is no one on this "side" going around telling people on the server that you are a pedophile.

Please point out to me which people on our "side" is doing any of this and I will personally tell them to stop.
 
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mub

Positively Inhumane Poster
Contributor
As far as I can tell, there is no one on our "side" that is spreading any lies about you. No one on this "side" is saying you were responsible for something that you didn't do, unlike the people that blamed me for adding ammo cost to flamethower, making easter eggs crit, increasing uber length on vagineer. There were more people complaining about these things than the others. You could have taken the responsibility for the things that you did but it appears that you simply let the misinformation spread.

There is no one on this "side" telling everyone on your server to leave and that they hope your community dies. There is no one on this "side" going around telling people on the server that you are a pedophile.

Please point out to me which people on our "side" is doing any of this and I will personally tell them to stop.

Unfortunately, I never noticed anybody mention those particular changes specified as your fault. I would've taken the responsibility to handle such misinformation, but I just... never saw it. I think the only one of those four ideas that I really saw come into question was Gentlespy's origin, but I never saw anybody misattribute it to you, just to me. Misinformation was and continues to be supremely rampant in all manners regarding who does what, though. People said I control the maps, people said you handled RED weapon changes, people said Easter Bunny's golden wrench was a Skial-only thing, etc. It definitely happens, and I do help thoroughly clarify whenever possible.

As for the more egregious forms of drama going around regarding the other side of the fence, it is indeed not quite random accusations of pedophilia or hoping my community dies, no. As for what is being done and said that I would consider worth pointing out, a majority of what I've seen is, unfortunately, behind closed doors. For their protection, I've been specifically asked to keep the details confidential for the sake that involved parties may be revealed. Publicly, there's nothing significant worth pursuing since the whole point is to drop the drama, and what is out there for everyone to see is pretty petty and not worth the effort, to which end I'd say it's not worth any hassle.

I understand now as I'm typing this that there is likely no real action on this matter due to the aforementioned circumstances, and will have to concede that latter point.
 

Bottiger

Administrator
SAXTON HALE | US ███ 09/11/2021 - 12:20:48 PM randomuser124 bottiger balancing
SAXTON HALE | US ███ 09/11/2021 - 11:27:25 AM randomuser124 because bottiger is a fucking dumbass
SAXTON HALE | US ███ 09/11/2021 - 08:02:03 AM ThCanadianMoose whatever changes happens, its on bottiger
SAXTON HALE | US ███ 09/11/2021 - 08:01:43 AM ThCanadianMoose bottiger owns skial
SAXTON HALE | US ███ 09/11/2021 - 07:55:26 AM sEn no offense, but bottiger kinda small brain
SAXTON HALE | US ███ 09/10/2021 - 03:57:39 PM Lamprey of Europa Then they did a bottiger and added something stupid to buff him
SAXTON HALE | US ███ 09/08/2021 - 11:22:56 PM Navi a testimate to how bad bottigers balances are
SAXTON HALE | US ███ 08/29/2021 - 03:07:22 PM anna its a shame bottiger is gonna just keep adding shitty bosses like gentlespy

It is kind of hard to believe that you were completely unaware of things like this.

This was going on daily on our servers for a month and according to our sources in these private discords, the source of this kind of behavior stemmed from your discord or at least was allowed to run rampant and spread like a disease.
 

mub

Positively Inhumane Poster
Contributor
It is kind of hard to believe that you were completely unaware of things like this.

This was going on daily on our servers for a month and according to our sources in these private discords, the source of this kind of behavior stemmed from your discord or at least was allowed to run rampant and spread like a disease.

I am completely aware that people speak very unkindly of both of us for decisions we make or made regarding changes to the VSH server all the time. I am, however, again, been largely unaware of disinformation of the nature you’re describing. Yes, it does happen, and I would correct people where possible.

Unfortunately, the information you received was not accurate. My Discord server did not even exist at the time of these provided quotes. I opened it on 9/13/21 to an initial handful of players, and it largely didn’t have a lot of activity until the last few weeks.
 
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Bottiger

Administrator
The point is not that you made a discord to specifically spread misinformation and discontent. It does not really matter which discord it started on and whether it was named "mub" or that you didn't create it.

You were part of the other discords. You know most of the players on the server. You had a group called "mub club" with dozens of people worshipping you.

Yet we kept seeing more and more people blaming me for things that you did, over a long period of time. From our inside sources it was quite apparent you did nothing to stop any of this. As someone who had a large amount of influence both on people and the server itself, it was quite negligent and suggestive that you wanted the lies to spread and to turn all the players against us.
 

mub

Positively Inhumane Poster
Contributor
The point is not that you made a discord to specifically spread misinformation and discontent. It does not really matter which discord it started on and whether it was named "mub" or that you didn't create it.

You were part of the other discords. You know most of the players on the server. You had a group called "mub club" with dozens of people worshipping you.

Yet we kept seeing more and more people blaming me for things that you did, over a long period of time. From our inside sources it was quite apparent you did nothing to stop any of this. As someone who had a large amount of influence both on people and the server itself, it was quite negligent and suggestive that you wanted the lies to spread and to turn all the players against us.

(I am only a part of some of the Discord servers in question.)

Yes, any sort of inside source might have found it apparent that I did nothing to stop the issues in question, because I did not see them. I do not and did not spend anywhere near enough time reading chats, nor go out of my way to, to filter through the sheer amount of data output that dozens of Discord servers and server text chat produces 24/7 in order to assure that I saw this misinformation, nor did I have any understanding that there was an expectation to do so. I completely refute the notion that it was out of negligence and malice.