New Nerf demo crit spam on Dustbowl...

Bill Paxton

Bill Paxton

Mildly Menacing Medic
Contributor
3rd level of Dustbowl has the same people at the top of the end leader board, often clear of 2nd place by 100 kills, because they just spam crit sticky grenades. The fact that there is such a huge disparity in kills shows its unbalanced.

Perhaps having to reload after shooting one sticky grenade or some other solution I can't think of.
 
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Lol. I’ve seen heavy and soldier on the top plenty of times. It’s just whoever is being fed pockets.

I know you hate stickies, but get good.
 
actually probably counts as self promotion

e: actually i think it counts as an informative reply, even if op is a big baby

 
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Coordinate some uber pushes, ask an engie to grab the short circuit, asking a pyro to right click every once in a blue moon where he sees spam coming from, dare I say try to use a spy as there's too many ledges to abuse that you can go around a medic/dps duo and be able to get at least a pick on one of them while cloaked avoiding spam, hell even just telling your teammates sticky nades are incoming and to back up before dying in a couple of hits.

Like I know being on the receiving end of a Kritz demo is not fun at all especially if they're popping kritz every time it hits 100%.
Cool, you nerf demo with how often he can shoot. But now you're greeted to I'm presuming a bunch of uber heavy/pyro & krits soldiers w/ batallions that'll make it worse to deal with.

Krits Demos aren't invincible, especially if you catch them in an awkward position trying to lob stickies over and they have little time inbetween shots where you can poke them down to try and force them off of using their krits or fully commit and die.
 
Literally everyone in this thread is wrong btw. The same handful of users are always at the top of the leader board, sometimes by over a hundred kills or more. If there were an easy solution, as many of you try to claim, people would do it. This is literally the gold standard example of needing to balance a weapon/issue.

I assume nothing will happen but it could/should.
 
Bill Paxton said:
Literally everyone in this thread is wrong btw. The same handful of users are always at the top of the leader board, sometimes by over a hundred kills or more. If there were an easy solution, as many of you try to claim, people would do it. This is literally the gold standard example of needing to balance a weapon/issue.

I assume nothing will happen but it could/should.
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so youre saying we should nerf the entire userbase for a couple of tryhards?
 
Bill Paxton said:
If there were an easy solution, as many of you try to claim, people would do it.
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Short Circuit engineers
Stock Uber Push along with soldiers that know how to rocket jump properly
Pyros that are decent with airblast timing
Quickie Bomb Launcher demos to destroy their stickies
Amby spies
Snipers
Tomislav ambush heavies
Bonk scouts
 
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Seminal Inhalation said:
Short Circuit engineers
Stock Uber Push along with soldiers that know how to rocket jump properly
Pyros that are decent with airblast timing
Quickie Bomb Launcher demos to destroy their stickies
Amby spies
Snipers
Tomislav ambush heavies
Bonk scouts
Click to expand...
You don't seem to understand logic. If these things worked, people would do them. They don't.

Can not get any simpler than this.
 
Seminal Inhalation said:
So you are admitting that you and others in the server have not even attempted any of the solutions, got it.
Have a good evening!
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I've used short circuit to limited success. The point is, if something keeps happening over and over and over again, it is clear there is an imbalance.

It is literally inarguable.
 
Bill Paxton said:
I've used short circuit to limited success. The point is, if something keeps happening over and over and over again, it is clear there is an imbalance.

It is literally inarguable.
Click to expand...

I'm bored at work so shooting some hypotheticals here for the argument:

16 v 16 - 3rd Stage.

Full teams on both sides with lets say about 2-3 people who are higher up on the leaderboards of Skial and play this map religiously on red side playing medic with Kritzkriegs. Seeing them designate their dopamine machines (Demo/Soldier) and prepping for the round to start.

On average, assuming their medics are consistently healing injured people, can get an uber charge in about 45 seconds as compared to a normal stock uber's 60 seconds. (This is just easy math for the +25% ubercharge rate of Kritzkrieg.)
What do you or your team do during the grace period of an enemy's Kritzkrieg charge? After its used, regardless if you lived or not, gives your team about 30 seconds to do whatever with afterwards. (Running back into place from avoiding nades, teleporting onto frontline from spawn, building stuff at spawn, building uber, etc.)
A stock uber medic can be 25% uber charged by the time they get to the frontlines of 3rd stage while just healing folks on the way if they're walking. (Both blue and red.)
You lost 2nd or 3rd street, fall back and let them overextend to hopefully take them out while ubers are not charged.
Also, you instantly respawn. As you die, they finish their kritz, you tele back to the frontline, cool they got 1 kill from you and you're still holding the frontline with your team shortly after.

Like this is a debate of taking already a odd rock-paper-scissors game of Dustbowl's Map design, TF2 class mechanics, and a player's skill level;
But now: add 8 more players, quicker respawns for both sides, and the already set notoriety of Dustbowl's flaws makes the whole debate of nade-spam a crapchute.

This server is usually my go-to just for hanging out with folks I've met, I'm just numb to the 3rd stage shenanigans and will press on regardless if a krits/demo combo is there or not.
 
Not taking into consideration here of your actual team's composition, who specifically is playing said classes on both sides, and the whole !swap conversation of folks waiting to reign hell with Kritzkrieg on third stage only while disregarding the previous two.
 
All i see is people whining about sucking at the game and those that do well at the game by spamming nades and medics giving them kritz as well.

The video posted above is eazy just get a pyro with SS uber his ass let him ss the grenades and push and the rest follow that area is then clear rest of team can move up THEN spam the corner till they can push again, every time i had medics give me the ubers to push i've retaken that spot and made demos life hell.

The only reason they get to the top of the score board on that stage is partly due to people not pushing and removing their chance to spam nades at them.
 
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Essentially I just posted this for a laugh and to point out that there's an imbalance. I didn't expect anything to come of it and I'll still play but I change up how I play if I know it's a handful of folks who just critspam on 3rd. That's fine.

Those of you that are saying this is whining or trying to offer advice or pretty much anything else are completely missing the point and are in fact, wrong.

If you were to use math, you could make a graphical representation where everyone on stage 3 is is here and there and then boom way up off to the right is this dot that are crit spammers. They are so far from the norm that they're a statistical aberration. This is the very definition of unbalanced. It's literally why game developers constantly tweak weapons and mechanics on games that are regularly updated and cared for. If there was a counter balance that people could easily use, they would do it. But, they don't because it's not easy for them or pub gamers in general. Hence, there is an imbalance.

Thank you for coming to my TED talk.
 
Bill Paxton said:
Essentially I just posted this for a laugh and to point out that there's an imbalance. I didn't expect anything to come of it and I'll still play but I change up how I play if I know it's a handful of folks who just critspam on 3rd. That's fine.

Those of you that are saying this is whining or trying to offer advice or pretty much anything else are completely missing the point and are in fact, wrong.

If you were to use math, you could make a graphical representation where everyone on stage 3 is is here and there and then boom way up off to the right is this dot that are crit spammers. They are so far from the norm that they're a statistical aberration. This is the very definition of unbalanced. It's literally why game developers constantly tweak weapons and mechanics on games that are regularly updated and cared for. If there was a counter balance that people could easily use, they would do it. But, they don't because it's not easy for them or pub gamers in general. Hence, there is an imbalance.

Thank you for coming to my TED talk.
Click to expand...
Quit the fluff man, we all know you're backpedaling.
 
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Bill Paxton said:
Essentially I just posted this for a laugh and to point out that there's an imbalance. I didn't expect anything to come of it and I'll still play but I change up how I play if I know it's a handful of folks who just critspam on 3rd. That's fine.

Those of you that are saying this is whining or trying to offer advice or pretty much anything else are completely missing the point and are in fact, wrong.

If you were to use math, you could make a graphical representation where everyone on stage 3 is is here and there and then boom way up off to the right is this dot that are crit spammers. They are so far from the norm that they're a statistical aberration. This is the very definition of unbalanced. It's literally why game developers constantly tweak weapons and mechanics on games that are regularly updated and cared for. If there was a counter balance that people could easily use, they would do it. But, they don't because it's not easy for them or pub gamers in general. Hence, there is an imbalance.

Thank you for coming to my TED talk.
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You gotta preface theses posts better if you didn't want advice or people saying "skill issue."
I only give advice because if Valve/TF2Team isn't doing anything regarding the niche scenario of kritz demos on one part of a map, what the heck makes you think any of the Skial administration will do the same?

The only somewhat notable "fix" (more of a community re-make) I've seen for these sorts of stalemates was mostly watching Shounics stuff on his 100 player server with his own rendition of pl_Dustbowl adding more options for blue offense to press the attack instead of being funneled through normal channels where most crit nades go.
But then again - that's even more of an extreme example of Dustbowl due to the massive amount of players as compared to the base 24.

Every time I've seen you within the US Dustbowl - the moment you see one of the regulars you'll usually call it out in chat in regards to krits hell incoming. "Oh look the spammer" in some variation. You're prefacing it in advance for your team already which is greatly appreciated.
To which usually is met by the kritz user in question by saying "you're bad." right back at you.

"Kritz Demo is hard to deal with - if there is a counterbalance, people would do it."
Multiple people who have used it against you or are victims with you against kritz have even mentioned methods for counteracting it in game.
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If you don't even know what this is and how amazing it is versus critical damage - that's on you. But hey come rant about it more through here and double down on other's opinions/inquiries being wrong - see what progress that gives.
 
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