Need Supporters Add an Unusual Trade server.

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Slippery Nipple, Nov 6, 2016.

  1. ly_dee

    ly_dee Server-Clearing Cynic Contributor

    Steam:

    I just talked to that one friend, he said anything that isn't too big.
    Also dark maps are better so we can actually see the effects.
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
    • Like Like x 1
  2. CourtneyFromWendys

    CourtneyFromWendys Epic Skial Regular Contributor

    Steam:

    I'd definitely start playing again if this goes forward to help out with traffic. Myself and a lot of my friends have a lot of trading experience with high tier unusuals and would definitely help get a new server running
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  3. BBQ Prophet

    BBQ Prophet Trade Moderator Staff Member

    Steam:

    The old trade_minecraft with the Nether and none of the extra frills was actually a great (and dark) map. NY's population and quality REALLY went down once it was changed, in my opinion. And that is a solid point to hold my opinion that major change is bad for trade servers.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  4. Slippery Nipple

    Slippery Nipple Notably Dangerous Demo-Knight

    Steam:

    Donations exist, you know. People in unusual trading are more invested into the game, chances are they would spend money on donating too. Ads are not the only source of income.
    How exactly is unusual trading a circle jerk? The whole point of making a server like this would be for people who want to trade with higher-tier items.
    Why would this need to be done?
    The "factual reasoning" would be that "richer" players don't focus on trading normal cosmetics and stranges (what goes down in normal trade servers). I've tried myself to trade unusuals on Trade US and NY, no one on those servers (let alone one if you're lucky) has enough to trade unusuals. People trade unusuals for other unusuals.
    Essentially, the trade servers up now (Trade NY and Trade US) will be for lower tier trading and the unusual trade server will be for those who have more expensive items.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. Slippery Nipple

    Slippery Nipple Notably Dangerous Demo-Knight

    Steam:

    While we are on the topic of map design, I would suggest adding a heavy boxing ring and sniper duel area.
     
  6. Meowcenary

    Meowcenary TF2 Admin Contributor

    Steam:

    oboy

    Can I request a admin fun room we can noclip to
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. BBQ Prophet

    BBQ Prophet Trade Moderator Staff Member

    Steam:

    Firstly, I'm aware there are donators but considering that ads are automatic and donating is optional, the servers are obviously supported by people watching ads and not donations. Adding "Unusual" to a server's name isn't gonna inspire donations anyway...
    Secondly, there is absolutely nothing to stop F2P's, beggars and skrubs from coming onto this unusual server just as they do on any other server. The only thing I can think of that might keep them away would be the "high-tier" traders circle jerking and saying "you're too poor, go away". Do you expect there to be rules that outline what defines "high tier" and "low tier"? That's insane and it's in serious contradiction to the ethos of Skial. Plus many traders, like myself, deal with "high-tier" items as well as "low-tier" items simultaneously; so you're going to kick me every other time I advertise or something?

     
    • Disagree Disagree x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Dumb Dumb x 1
  8. Sargent¥

    Sargent¥ Trade Moderator Staff Member

    Steam:

    A new server would be a safer approach, it's fair to assume that with how big unusual servers are and how large of a community Skial is, that it'd take off no problem but, in the off chance that it fails, at least we're not killing off TRADE | NY as it might be harder to bring back traffic if we load it with high-tier experienced traders and kill off the fighting (which is what would need to be done as that is how unusual servers function). What I'm thinking is we launch the server (a new one) and for the first month, whoever has the most activity gets an unusual. As for the map itself, idk if @Cream Tea would want to make a new map but preferably a map under Skial's own name. Having worked under MCT till it's bitter demise, I know some important features are as follows:
    • There should be no fighting or, at least, a large zone where people cannot fight
    • Shouldn't have too many changes through the first month of launch, that will only annoy the traders
    • The map name should be written as trade_unusual_<anything>. trade_unusual is a common map search for unusual traders as it gives them what they're looking for
    • Don't introduce too many plug-ins with the server, the longer the dl, the less likely it is to fill up as high tier traders, mostly, have low patience
    • Have places on the map with backdrops so people can take a screenshot of their loadouts with a fancy background, almost like a green screen, to use to advertise. If our watermark gets in on the screenshots, that'll be more advertising for us
    • This kind of trading is a bit more complex and might require strict, experienced traders, whether we hire more people is up to you but we'd likely need it
    As for the contest, I can do a top 3 sort of thing, first getting the unusual and then a sum of 15 keys after (10 and 5 for 2nd and 3rd respectively). I can also give those 3 users an SFM made by myself. I trust in Skial's community to excel on its ambitions but this will need a lot of initial hard work. It'll likely be a shaky beginning but if you could add a server wide message similar to what you did for the forums but in this case, for the unusual server. It could probably be accomplished.
    An old server died because that's exactly what they did, there should be no reason why we would be doing the same. We'll allow both types of trading and breaking up those feuds that occur between the 2, which I truly think won't happen as it has only happened once in my experience and that was because a young player recently bought an unusual and thought they were the coolest and tried putting newer traders in their place.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2016
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. Blade D_Hero

    Blade D_Hero TF2 Admin Contributor

    Steam:

    +1

    I also like the idea of an "activity contest" where the top three people with the most activity got rewarded during the first month of the server being up. I don't know about you, but that would definitely be an incentive to seed the server, especially if I had a big interest in trading as most of the unusual traders do.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  10. Sargent¥

    Sargent¥ Trade Moderator Staff Member

    Steam:

    For now @Slippery Nipple , we should have more contributors to the ordeal, can you find more people to vouch for the server? If we don't get an active group of people wanting it, there's no point running it. I'll find individuals as well.
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  11. Meowcenary

    Meowcenary TF2 Admin Contributor

    Steam:

    The thing I noticed with people on the trade servers is a good portion of the players are fighting and messing around. That may not be the intent of the server but they're helping keep it populated

    I think killing off fighting entirely is a bad idea because of this. It would only mean those people messing around who are unknowingly helping seed the server would have no reason to stick around. Less people on the server means its less likely for unusual traders to bother joining if the server is practically dead

    I'd suggest making some form of a safe zone for the traders they can easily teleport to from spawn but allow killing in the rest of the map

    Otherwise if there's only some tiny kill room there's not much reason for all those people looking to mess around to stay and help seed the server

    And I could be wrong but I'm doubting unusual traders alone are going to keep that server actively populated given how few people have unusuals. Gotta have some 'common folk' keeping the server populated to get the fancy unusuals in
     
  12. Sargent¥

    Sargent¥ Trade Moderator Staff Member

    Steam:

    It's different with the case of unusual servers as people want to showcase their unusual and killstreak effects. It's still possible to have a fight zone and a large area for showcasing but the latter should consume more than the former as that is what separates unusual trade servers from regular ones as stated here:
    As for the last part, there are many unusual traders looking for their forever homes as the other 2 either have a lot of fighting or are very dull, not something unusual traders look for. A successful unusual server has a bright map and things to do other than fighting like Easter eggs and potential mini games so the map itself won't exactly be easy to make.
     
  13. Meowcenary

    Meowcenary TF2 Admin Contributor

    Steam:

    Some of the trade servers as is are having a rough time staying afloat at times, and those are just normal trade servers. I highly doubt a unusual server, which has already failed to seed before, is going to be kept afloat solely by unusual traders who make up a very tiny portion of the player base.

    Unless you can find 24+ players to seed the server for majority of the day, every day, for the foreseeable future until the server gets a solid regular base (which could take a very long time) you're likely not going to see the server full if you're relying solely on unusual traders and a small band of people who promise they'll help keep the server up (more often than not those people don't do much to actually seed the server. I've seen it happen before with failed server attempts)

    I'm not saying make the whole map a kill area. I'm just saying give the average players who join something to do so they'll stick around to help keep the server populated. Otherwise you're going to need a lot of VERY dedicated people who will seed the server for a very long time to come
     
  14. Slippery Nipple

    Slippery Nipple Notably Dangerous Demo-Knight

    Steam:

    Sure, actually was thinking about this. I'm going to spread the word.
     
  15. Renegade

    Renegade Gaben's Own Aimbot Contributor

    Steam:

    +1
    I used to do unusual trading all the time on a few different servers. Would be cool if Skial had their own.
     
  16. Lava ❤

    Lava ❤ Mildly Menacing Medic

    Steam:

    One thing I would like to know, is whether you will have active staff supervising the server. With higher value items like unusuals, you often attract some of the worst TF2/Steam trading has to offer. I've been on the Skial all-trade server a few times, but as far as I can tell there usually aren't active staff. Maybe they were just low profile?

    As for the activity contest, rewarding whomever spends the most time in the server only disincentivizes your traders from spreading the word. Each person you tell is another competitor who potentially either reduces you own chances of winning, or is already behind you with no way of catching up (hence no chance at winning) if you never leave.

    Don't get me wrong, I think a new unusual server is great. I know of other communities who have tried to start one and failed, and it's even worse with trade holds and mobile authenticator so it may never take off, but I'm still hopeful it can work. One thing that I think badly plagues trade servers is the overuse of minecraft/plaza maps, which when I traded I always tried to find something with a more aesthetic map. As much as I hated your ads, the Portal themed map was probably the most aesthetic map I've run across, second only to some brony maps I stumbled upon once in a while. Some easter eggs, like a moderately hidden skybox entrance, would also be nice. I don't think unusual trade servers are as insane or difficult as all-trade servers can be, but they bear some additional responsibilities that your staff may or may not be ready for if they aren't active traders or trade-oriented community admins.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Friendly Friendly x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  17. BBQ Prophet

    BBQ Prophet Trade Moderator Staff Member

    Steam:

    You bring some excellent points. As the most active Admin on Trade servers by far, I'm fully aware of the low amount of supervision that is, and could even hypothetically be, possible. Basically, calling it an Unusual Server doesn't mean anything; Trade US is effectively already one anyway. I see tons of people trading unusuals there all the time.
    Like I've been saying repeatedly, adding "unusual" to the servers' tags is the most practical solution. Adding it to a name might get a few kids to join for that reason, but making it searchable by "unusual" is far better.
     
  18. Bottiger

    Bottiger Administrator Staff Member

    Steam:

    We have tried several times to start an unusual server and always failed. We even had a custom map made for it called trade_bm_tower. How many of you remember it?

    We had admins that played on the server for 10 hours day to make sure that beggars and f2p were removed but no one wanted to join a near empty server.

    To start an unusual server, it seems like you need a critical mass of unusual traders that are willing to sit in the server to attract other people. I have no idea how to do that. I've tried to make our trade servers and forums as nice as possible, but it just didn't seem to be enough.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2016
    • Agree Agree x 1
  19. Faron

    Faron Forum Admin Staff Member Contributor

    Steam:

    I remember.
    This is key, and most unusual traders aren't willing to do this.

    I haven't played TF2 in a while, but all the really popular unusual trading servers were popular because there weren't many of them, and the people that started them were always there, and always inviting people, keeping them full. Most of the people that joined the unusual servers were the same group of people. They were also popular because only unusual trading, or other high-value items like HOUWAR's were traded.

    I really don't think we would be able to keep the server full.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Neat Neat x 1
  20. Guerilla Gorilla

    Guerilla Gorilla Banned

    Steam:

    I am not too knowledgeable on these topics however I believe you could lower the amount of player slots to a desirable amount so the server is a bit cheaper to run and that way it would be "more full" since there are less slots.
     
    • Confusing Confusing x 2
    • Friendly Friendly x 1