Declined A detailed discussion on server mute.

[[SSoH] Chuker34]

The server mute works mildly well, here I am about to both rant and show you the pros and cons of it, but first, the rant.



My story starts out with me wanting a regular 24/7 server, I used to play skial so I quickly find a turbine one and join. I am glad to see it is sv_pure 0 and add it to favs. Fast forward a few months, I am now a regular in this server and most people are friendly to me, or at least don't have anything against me. But almost every day I get muted for using my mic, the reason? Not mic spam but just the fact that when I plug my mic in it needs to be adjusted, so I do so, but every so often it gets banged around and I need to readjust it. Before I realize this, people try to vote mute me and sometimes succeed, more than often yes. Never once have I spammed, in fact most of the time it is the donators of your servers that end up vote muting me because they get mad for some reason or another, or just don't bother to tell me that my mic is messed up and know I, or anybody else, cannot retaliate. It is seriously a five second to a minute fix but everybody just assumes I know it sucks (when I don't) and end up muting me... And no, I do not have the money to get a new 50$ mic as money is tight as it is.



Anyways, rant over let's get back on topic.



The pros of server mute are that it does get rid or REAL spammers by chat or through the mic

Also the fact that muting someone can make them want to leave the server if they are both spamming and doing something else.

The cons are many.



For one, the gag feature disallows teamwork if somebody such as me gets muted for my mic souly, this could be fixed by having mute and gag be different features.



Another con is that people get mad at a certain individual and vote to mute them, even though they have no reason, people vote yes to almost anything.



And the final con is that TF2 already has a client side mute, no need to mute someone to people who want to hear him, just mute him for yourself and your done, no more spam / "bad" mics.



A removal of the mute feature could be implemented and instead replaced by a pop up telling someone how to client side mute, it is there for a reason. The only person who should be able to mute is admins because if they are admins, they should be able to tell who is right, keep a cool head and make final judgment. And yes, I do enjoy these servers but people wanting to mute others for reasons such as, getting mad, not being a polite person and giving a little warning before they do so such as " hey XXXXXXX your mic sounds bad" or "hey XXXXCXCSXXX, stop spamming trade requests or we may mute you". And then there is people who want to vote ban certain people, mostly because they get mad (not once have I seen a hacker or someone who should be banned in one of your servers), but this ends up failing because of the high percentage of people required.



Anyways, if you did not want to read that riveting tale of love and loss, here is its abbreviated form.



"TF2 has a client side mute for a reason, people abuse certain vote menu features, admins should be the only ones allowed to mute and good job, keep improving because that is all I see you guys doing."

 

[pkm]

seems you haven't read my post, i'll try again:

if somebody is using a microphone that isn't top-notch quality, and that person gets votemuted because there's some background fuzz and feedback, would you agree that the person shouldn't be able to communicate with his team through chat either because he brought it on himself to talk with a microphone that doesn't deliver the best sound quality available?

I'd say that if they continue to use a poorly working mic that's annoying for everyone to listen that it's obvious they don't give a shit about the rest of the players so why should the rest of the players care if the guy can't communicate at all?

i'm not sure what server you play on, but custom servers are plagued by this one specific problem (pretty sure it has something to do with the TF2 custom audience being generally poor).

Is it really a problem though? Do you find yourself being muted unfairly ?

 

[pr1mus da scr1pt]

I'd say that if they continue to use a poorly working mic that's annoying for everyone to listen that it's obvious they don't give a shit about the rest of the players so why should the rest of the players care if the guy can't communicate at all?

so when people don't use a state-of-the-art microphone they should be muted and gagged because their adequate microphones, despite grain and the like: indicate the person doesn't give a shit about the rest of server? what's next, illiterate people or somebody who doesn't speak english very well should also be gagged because their english isn't up to par and is hard to understand; and is thus disrespectful towards other players on the server by some vague shot in the dark? that's the kind of mentality people need to get rid of. people getting "offended" about a temporal annoyance like some guy adjusting his headphones (which granted, isn't a pleasant sound) and makes people grab towards their !votemute because that one second of annoyance builds up enough audacity to start stupid votes like that, it's stupid and uncalled for.

Is it really a problem though? Do you find yourself being muted unfairly ?

sure, especially when i started playing on the server i got a shit ton of votemutes and votebans on my ass because people were convinced i was hacking (voteban would fail and be on cooldown, and then they'd just votemute me in rapid succession), people still do that when they get killed; there's dozens of threads about people doing just that. not just to me, to other people as well.

 

[wokmage]

sure, especially when i started playing on the server i got a shit ton of votemutes and votebans on my ass because people were convinced i was hacking (voteban would fail and be on cooldown, and then they'd just votemute me in rapid succession), people still do that when they get killed; there's dozens of threads about people doing just that. not just to me, to other people as well.

Heh, I knew there was a reason I only play stock TF2. :P

 

[Ozone]

seems you haven't read my post, i'll try again:

if somebody is using a microphone that isn't top-notch quality, and that person gets votemuted because there's some background fuzz and feedback, would you agree that the person shouldn't be able to communicate with his team through chat either because he brought it on himself to talk with a microphone that doesn't deliver the best sound quality available?

this situation is more of a technological flaw considering the hardware used is less than optimal, less so than it has anything to do with the person using the microphone, who might just be a swell individual.

The people using the votemute for dumbass reasons are the flaws, not the votemute. Think extra hard before saying shit.

 

[pr1mus da scr1pt]

The people using the votemute for dumbass reasons are the flaws, not the votemute. Think extra hard before saying shit.

oh god

you realize there's no way to correctly use the votemute in most scenarios, right? people who unintentionally annoy people in cryptic ways over the microphone should still be able to talk over chat; situations where someone should both be gagged and muted are in the vast minority, that's the flaw in the system, giving flawed people (which really goes without saying) a flawed system (which you argued as "perfect", hence my retort regarding the system) to work with doesn't work out as a double negative (= positive).

system is flawed, argue why people who get votemuted on the basis that their microphone/voice are subjectively annoying should also get gagged, besides getting muted (which can be solved with client-mute, etc).

 

[[SSoH] Chuker34]

the rule is that if someone finds you annoying; it's justified to use the votemute, even though what people find 'annoying' is a slippery slope, so every votemute is justified if you dig hard enough.

i agree with the cons though, the gag alongside the mute seems to be uncalled for (also it makes it harder to play the game), even if someone isn't communicating; tired of that one scout killing you constantly? votemuting will teach him! besides, there's a client-mute, i encourage people to use the client-mute, give them instructions when they obliviously type '!votemute' constantly, most of the people on the server aren't even aware a client-mute option even exists, and usually can't be arsed following directions and go with the route that involves less mouseclicks.

votemute gets treated like "all-purpose problem-solver", people just spam it endlessly because they can, and nobody will begrudge them for it because people don't care. the system isn't ideal.

if someone wants to block off all sorts of communication from one player, it's subjective, and should thus stay with that one person. you have the means to do that (besides chat, but you don't have to read it, i know i don't start votegags against every illiterate dipshit, or kids that exclusively speak in foreign-language, as well as people who generally say the damnedest things that irk me the fuck out) and that's cool and all, but trying to make it so that the entire server HAS to ignore one person is just stupid. sure, i might get annoyed by one person for some reason (there's a kid on the server who has a lisp and it sounds like a tea kettle blowing steam when he pronounces words with the letter "S" in them), what i do is a client-mute, what i don't do is start some votemute because i'm personally annoyed by someone, taking advantage of the fact that the server is mostly filled with "hurr 4"-droids just to add a gag on top of a mute is just overkill and unnecessary. some people might not get annoyed by that detail and enjoy listening to this guy, i don't understand where people get the audacity to start a !votemute on an occasion like that.


it isn't like having a very good mic means you won't get votemuted anymore, some kids just don't like people talking over the mic period.


"perfect" implies flawlessness, the current system has flaws up the ass (as you could read above).

i'm still a contender that votemute does just that, mute people; people who get muted (mostly for little to no reason), should still be able to communicate. if you afraid that people who will start spamming up the chatbox out of spite after getting muted, then just report the guy for spam and get him banned for a few days, keeping !votemute in it's current form arguably does just as much bad (if not more) than it does good.

I love this post.

 

[Ozone]

oh god

you realize there's no way to correctly use the votemute in most scenarios, right? people who unintentionally annoy people in cryptic ways over the microphone should still be able to talk over chat; situations where someone should both be gagged and muted are in the vast minority, that's the flaw in the system, giving flawed people (which really goes without saying) a flawed system (which you argued as "perfect", hence my retort regarding the system) to work with doesn't work out as a double negative (= positive).

system is flawed, argue why people who get votemuted on the basis that their microphone/voice are subjectively annoying should also get gagged, besides getting muted (which can be solved with client-mute, etc).

If someone gets their mic muted they'll probably continue harrassing using the textchat.

 

[[SSoH] Chuker34]

If someone gets their mic muted they'll probably continue harrassing using the textchat.

For me, I would not do this. Hell, if someone even one says im annoying them in voice chat I say "just esc menu mute me, I won't mind. But the second you try to !votemenu mute me, I will say every fucking insult I have." That is a speech I have learned that I have to say mildly often.

 

[Ozone]

For me, I would not do this. Hell, if someone even one says im annoying them in voice chat I say "just esc menu mute me, I won't mind. But the second you try to !votemenu mute me, I will say every fucking insult I have." That is a speech I have learned that I have to say mildly often.

And what I said applies for the flawed ones mentioned earlier.

 

[Tomatketchup]

If someone gets their mic muted they'll probably continue harrassing using the textchat.

If you get votegagged you can't use the textchat either, I believe.

For me, I would not do this. Hell, if someone even one says im annoying them in voice chat I say "just esc menu mute me, I won't mind. But the second you try to !votemenu mute me, I will say every fucking insult I have." That is a speech I have learned that I have to say mildly often.

Perhaps you wouldn't get votegagged so often if you leave out the last part of your speech.

 

[Ozone]

If you get votegagged you can't use the textchat either, I believe.

Yeah I know it does.

 

[[SSoH] Chuker34]

If you get votegagged you can't use the textchat either, I believe.

Perhaps you wouldn't get votegagged so often if you leave out the last part of your speech.

But vote mute and gag is the same......And that speech is BEFORE any kind of vote happens, during a vote I just say whatever the hell I want knowing that it will fail or knowing that I won't be able to respond post vote.

 

[pr1mus da scr1pt]

If someone gets their mic muted they'll probably continue harrassing using the textchat.

what makes you say people will 'continue' (implying they were harassing to begin with, which isn't the case at all, and just shows how uninformed you are on the matter entirely) harassing people after getting their mic muted? most people will just ask why they got muted, and won't get any reasonable answer out of it, the remaining portion of people will get pissed off (and rightfully so) about getting votemuted for little to no reason.

the only thing probable in this situation is you not thinking properly about this, for one; if someone uses a client-mute on someones mic, what tells people that they're actually client-muted? and by what reasoning do you suggest that they'll 'probably harass people' out of spite? you are just lumping everyone together thinking the majority will act like that, whilst only very few people would do something like that. how is that fair towards the majority which first have to deal with votemenu abuse, and then get thought of as "oh, you're just scum that'll start spamming the chat after getting your microphone muted).

 

[Ozone]

what makes you say people will 'continue' (implying they were harassing to begin with, which isn't the case at all, and just shows how uninformed you are on the matter entirely) harassing people after getting their mic muted? most people will just ask why they got muted, and won't get any reasonable answer out of it, the remaining portion of people will get pissed off (and rightfully so) about getting votemuted for little to no reason.

the only thing probable in this situation is you not thinking properly about this, for one; if someone uses a client-mute on someones mic, what tells people that they're actually client-muted? and by what reasoning do you suggest that they'll 'probably harass people' out of spite? you are just lumping everyone together thinking the majority will act like that, whilst only very few people would do something like that. how is that fair towards the majority which first have to deal with votemenu abuse, and then get thought of as "oh, you're just scum that'll start spamming the chat after getting your microphone muted).

And to stop you from creating the usual shitstorm I leave you with this:

 

[pr1mus da scr1pt]

And to stop you from creating the usual shitstorm I leave you with this:

you know that typically retorting with image macros whenever you get outsmarted and out-logic'd is the more common benefactor in derailing threads and causing a shitstorm, right? that's okay, i won't hold it against you.

point is, the vast majority of people on the server who get votemuted don't deserve to get gagged, justifying the gag on it by saying that you somehow know that these people are going to spam chat out of spite due to the fact that they're getting votemuted; is kind of pessimistic outlook on the situation, and a dumb one at that because it makes zero sense (which explains why you can't defend your own argument, instead putting me up with another image macro, which is pretty much saying "alright you are 100% right, but i can't bring myself to agree with you because i detest you and i'm too much of a shallow pussy to get over myself".

 

[Ozone]

you know that typically retorting with image macros whenever you get outsmarted and out-logic'd is the more common benefactor in derailing threads and causing a shitstorm, right? that's okay, i won't hold it against you.

point is, the vast majority of people on the server who get votemuted don't deserve to get gagged, justifying the gag on it by saying that you somehow know that these people are going to spam chat out of spite due to the fact that they're getting votemuted; is kind of pessimistic outlook on the situation, and a dumb one at that because it makes zero sense (which explains why you can't defend your own argument, instead putting me up with another image macro, which is pretty much saying "alright you are 100% right, but i can't bring myself to agree with you because i detest you and i'm too much of a shallow pussy to get over myself".

If you were smart at all or used logic then that still wouldn't be the case since we wouldn't be arguing like this if you were smart or could use logic.

inb4 jaunty comes in to derail this shit right into an orphanage.

 

[pr1mus da scr1pt]

If you were smart at all or used logic then that still wouldn't be the case since we wouldn't be arguing like this if you were smart or could use logic.

inb4 jaunty comes in to derail this shit right into an orphanage.

what wouldn't be the case? trying to explain myself to someone who constantly reminds people that oppose him with a deterring opinion that they're dumb and don't have a logical outlook on the matter at hand?

i feel i've represented my opinion (and the logic used to build it) quite well, this all shows due to the fact this is the second time in this thread where you just resort to personal attacks, image macros, and bringing up irrelevant people (jaunty in this case) into the conversation, for the ironic assumption that he'll "derail the thread", all the whilst posting replies that constitute as thread-derailing themselves.

besides, your first off-topic post already said you were going to leave this thread alone (the mature highroad, huh?), i was quite thrilled to hear this because you leaving this thread alone would mean this thread would have a higher probable life-expectancy, yet here you are. could you please leave until you shit out whatever issue crawled up your ass? thanks in advance.

 

[lpN]

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[Ozone]

what wouldn't be the case? trying to explain myself to someone who constantly reminds people that oppose him with a deterring opinion that they're dumb and don't have a logical outlook on the matter at hand?

i feel i've represented my opinion (and the logic used to build it) quite well, this all shows due to the fact this is the second time in this thread where you just resort to personal attacks, image macros, and bringing up irrelevant people (jaunty in this case) into the conversation, for the ironic assumption that he'll "derail the thread", all the whilst posting replies that constitute as thread-derailing themselves.

besides, your first off-topic post already said you were going to leave this thread alone (the mature highroad, huh?), i was quite thrilled to hear this because you leaving this thread alone would mean this thread would have a higher probable life-expectancy, yet here you are. could you please leave until you shit out whatever issue crawled up your ass? thanks in advance.

All I see is you bitching about being called dumb when in fact you are. And I use images if I want to, you can't stop me and it doesn't mean anything. A picture is worth more than a thousand words right.

 

[pr1mus da scr1pt]

All I see is you bitching about being called dumb when in fact you are. And I use images if I want to, you can't stop me and it doesn't mean anything. A picture is worth more than a thousand words right.

even when the pictures are only out there to instigate and derail the thread whilst zealously trying to combat the same thing you are guilty of doing yourself? nice one. btw would love to hear the 1000 word rendition to accompany your picture lol

whats the matter, did the admins take away your ability to rate posts so you figured you'd compensate with an overabundance of image macros? just trying to help you become a better person soz