Declined [Skial] Forum Votes Revising

Max1996

Max1996

Notably Dangerous Demo-Knight
Contributor
These are some of the declined suggestions (with vote scores) not by me on pages 1 and 2 of this section, including their respective vote scores, gathered as argument for this suggestion.

https://www.skial.com/threads/re-add-dr_nighttown-to-the-deathrun-map-rotation.90554/

+7, -0. The 8th +1 won't count, as it was after a post commenting on the 'Declined' status. No explanation given.

https://www.skial.com/threads/remove-vsh_cinema-from-the-vsh-map-rotation.89694/

+32, -0, though Bottiger did provide an explanation

https://www.skial.com/threads/vsh-increase-nomination-cooldown-for-maps.87293/

+44, -0 (excluding my +1). Somewhat of an explanation given by Bottiger?

https://www.skial.com/threads/dr-add-dr_lasagna.90629/

+5, -0. No explanation given.

https://www.skial.com/threads/vsh-ff2-allow-multiple-nominations-on-maps.90546/

+6, -0. Somewhat of an explanation given by Bottiger?

https://www.skial.com/threads/dr-add-dr_kanye.90572/
+7, -0. No explanations given.

https://www.skial.com/threads/the-rules.90312

+0, -1. Explanations given.

https://www.skial.com/threads/vsh-re-add-oilrig.90623/

+10, -2. No explanation given.

https://www.skial.com/threads/vsh-2-double-boss-rounds.90354/

+0, -2. No explicit explanation given...not that this one really needed that.

https://www.skial.com/threads/la-server-for-vsh.90517/

+7, -0. No explanation given.

https://www.skial.com/threads/add-dr-fall-guys-to-deathrun.90491/

+4, -0. The 5th +1 won't count, as it was after a post commenting on the 'Declined' status. No explanation given.

Some of these show that some suggestions, in spite of there being more +1 than -1 votes, if any of the latter were posted, were declined with little to no explanation.

This seriously devalues what the community wants, via the forum members' votes for these suggestions.

Hence my suggestion for a revising of this idea of voting with +1/-1.

If a future suggestion has a score of at least +15 (after taking -1 votes into account) after a certain amount of time after posting, it needs to be implemented by admins without question.

If the score of +15 is not met, admins are free to decide whether or not to implement.

However, in those situations, the following needs to apply:
If the votes are unanimously +1 and it gets declined anyway, a detailed explanation needs to be given.

If there are both +1 and -1 votes, admins need to think it over based on the stated arguments, regardless of which has the majority.

If a suggestion is unanimously -1, no explanation is necessary for declining.
 
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Max1996 said:
If a future suggestion has a score of at least +15 (after taking -1 votes into account) after a certain amount of time after posting, it needs to be implemented by admins without question.
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Part of this is based on the assumption we admins have any final say in the matter and it is left to Bottiger. I do not mean he ignores any of our input, I mean he is the only one with direct access to the server files. Only he can change files and settings around, none of us can. No room for disorganization, miscommunication, or abuse of power.

Various suggestions are repeats, and often enough suggestions get declined for it. Often they're declined without a response. No response for being a bad idea, a repeat suggestion, or something he just does not want to do as it could complicate his work more than necessary. Take for example, this suggestion. Separating VSH and FF2 would be unnecessary work for Bottiger to keep up with, why have them separate and have to manage two different configs and set-ups when you can just have one identical? Why should Bottiger have mappers make a choice between VSH and FF2? It is a lot to ask for a mapper to balance a map for one gamemode variant vs the other.

Max1996 said:
https://www.skial.com/threads/re-add-dr_nighttown-to-the-deathrun-map-rotation.90554/

+7, -0. The 8th +1 won't count, as it was after a post commenting on the 'Declined' status. No explanation given.
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Maps are removed for two reasons.
  1. Map is not popular with the community or fell out of popularity. Skial determines popularity based on how often the map is nominated and how long the map is played. If a map is rtv'ed frequently and loses play-time on the server, it'll most likely be cut
  2. Map has a problem or is broken. Skial will not run maps that crash the server accidentally (DR Berlin Redux) or on purpose (DR PlayStation). If map is too buggy or breaks often it'll soon become unpopular, and then be removed because of point 1.
Max1996 said:
https://www.skial.com/threads/dr-add-dr_lasagna.90629/

+5, -0. No explanation given.
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If a map is completely garbage/shitpost, Bottiger isn't gonna run it on the server. DR Bazinga exists, I'm aware. But the server only needs one of those.


Max1996 said:
https://www.skial.com/threads/dr-add-dr_kanye.90572/
+7, -0. No explanations given.
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Shitpost map, the server already runs DR Bazinga

Max1996 said:
https://www.skial.com/threads/vsh-re-add-oilrig.90623/

+10, -2. No explanation given.
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Refer to previous numbered points

Max1996 said:
https://www.skial.com/threads/vsh-2-double-boss-rounds.90354/

+0, -2. No explicit explanation given...not that this one really needed that.
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IIRC a map had to be edited to accommodate this feature, Hale would spawn in a room that would trigger a door to shut upon him leaving. However, the 1st hale would leave and the door would shut, locking the 2nd hale in there for the rest of the round. I'd say issues like that were likely part of why it was removed.

Max1996 said:
https://www.skial.com/threads/la-server-for-vsh.90517/

+7, -0. No explanation given.
Click to expand...
Servers cost money to open and maintain. If a server won't attract players its a net loss to keep it running. IIRC we had a VSH LA, but it died.
 
Jermaphobe said:
Part of this is based on the assumption we admins have any final say in the matter and it is left to Bottiger. I do not mean he ignores any of our input, I mean he is the only one with direct access to the server files. Only he can change files and settings around, none of us can. No room for disorganization, miscommunication, or abuse of power.
Click to expand...
Regardless, if there's an overwhelming amount of community approval towards the suggestion, like the suggestions to remove vsh_cinema and increasing vsh nomination cooldown, there really shouldn't be much of a reason for Bottinger to refuse.
 
Max1996 said:
Regardless, if there's an overwhelming amount of community approval towards the suggestion, like the suggestions to remove vsh_cinema and increasing vsh nomination cooldown, there really shouldn't be much of a reason for Bottinger to refuse.
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Bottiger can always decline a suggestion for whatever he wants, or for no reason at all. He owns this community, he can decide what goes and what does not
 
Jermaphobe said:
Bottiger can always decline a suggestion for whatever he wants, or for no reason at all. He owns this community, he can decide what goes and what does not
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Welp, so much for trying to work towards the community having an actual say in matters. Go ahead and decline this suggestion.
 
Max1996 said:
Welp, so much for trying to work towards the community having an actual say in matters. Go ahead and decline this suggestion.
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No need to get pessimistic, I'm only telling you what I've observed.

Personally, +1
 
Jermaphobe said:
Part of this is based on the assumption we admins have any final say in the matter and it is left to Bottiger. I do not mean he ignores any of our input, I mean he is the only one with direct access to the server files. Only he can change files and settings around, none of us can. No room for disorganization, miscommunication, or abuse of power.

Various suggestions are repeats, and often enough suggestions get declined for it. Often they're declined without a response. No response for being a bad idea, a repeat suggestion, or something he just does not want to do as it could complicate his work more than necessary. Take for example, this suggestion. Separating VSH and FF2 would be unnecessary work for Bottiger to keep up with, why have them separate and have to manage two different configs and set-ups when you can just have one identical? Why should Bottiger have mappers make a choice between VSH and FF2? It is a lot to ask for a mapper to balance a map for one gamemode variant vs the other.


Maps are removed for two reasons.

  1. Map is not popular with the community or fell out of popularity. Skial determines popularity based on how often the map is nominated and how long the map is played. If a map is rtv'ed frequently and loses play-time on the server, it'll most likely be cut
    Map has a problem or is broken. Skial will not run maps that crash the server accidentally (DR Berlin Redux) or on purpose (DR PlayStation). If map is too buggy or breaks often it'll soon become unpopular, and then be removed because of point 1.

If a map is completely garbage/shitpost, Bottiger isn't gonna run it on the server. DR Bazinga exists, I'm aware. But the server only needs one of those.



Shitpost map, the server already runs DR Bazinga


Refer to previous numbered points


IIRC a map had to be edited to accommodate this feature, Hale would spawn in a room that would trigger a door to shut upon him leaving. However, the 1st hale would leave and the door would shut, locking the 2nd hale in there for the rest of the round. I'd say issues like that were likely part of why it was removed.


Servers cost money to open and maintain. If a server won't attract players its a net loss to keep it running. IIRC we had a VSH LA, but it died.
Click to expand...

Many pertinent and factual suggestions put forward, all drowned out by the (hopefully not your) usage of Discord Light mode in your Skial Signature.
 
i like how your "study" barely goes into context of each thread
context matters
for instance, most of these thread had a copy thread previously
this is like trying to play monopoly on a checkers board
confusing, no one knows whats going on and i passed go 57 times
 
herp 105.4 said:
i like how your "study" barely goes into context of each thread
context matters
for instance, most of these thread had a copy thread previously
this is like trying to play monopoly on a checkers board
confusing, no one knows whats going on and i passed go 57 times
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I'll concede that most of my cited examples aren't ideal. Regardless, the declining of the suggestions for increasing map nomination cooldown and removing vsh_cinema do still illustrate the point of this suggestion quite well. In spite of the unanimous +1 votes and arguments, Bottiger ultimately declined them for comparatively flimsy reasons.

And to quote Jermaphobe:
Jermaphobe said:
I mean he is the only one with direct access to the server files. Only he can change files and settings around, none of us can. No room for disorganization, miscommunication, or abuse of power.
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While I understand why abuse of power is a legitimate concern and, thus, a good argument in favor of only allowing Bottiger to implement suggestions, the reason I outlined above is why Bottiger shouldn't be the only one deciding which suggestions from this section to approve for implementation. There's a subtle difference, but one nonetheless.
 
It's Bottigers property, he makes the calls, the forum section is called 'SUGGESTIONS' I'll let that sink in.
 
Maddo said:
It's Bottigers property, he makes the calls, the forum section is called 'SUGGESTIONS' I'll let that sink in.
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My point regarding the two examples in my post right above yours still stands. Removing vsh_cinema and increasing nomination cooldown for maps had overwhelming and unanimous community approval. Their declined status in spite of this severely, if not completely, devalues the idea of the community having any say at all.

Jermaphobe cited 'abuse of power' as a reason for not allowing other people when it comes to actual implementation, but the idea of only allowing Bottiger to make decisions on approving suggestions has this very same potential concern.

On that note, I'd like to request a thread title change, as I seem to be unable to do this myself: '[Skial] New Suggestions System'
 
Max1996 said:
My point regarding the two examples in my post right above yours still stands. Removing vsh_cinema and increasing nomination cooldown for maps had overwhelming and unanimous community approval. Their declined status in spite of this severely, if not completely, devalues the idea of the community having any say at all.
Click to expand...

In the long term, this will discourage people from posting future suggestions and/or voting on them, if they're led to believe that there's no point to any of that if the suggestions get declined anyway.
 
Max1996 said:
In the long term, this will discourage people from posting future suggestions and/or voting on them, if they're led to believe that there's no point to any of that if the suggestions get declined anyway.
Click to expand...
You're assuming any and every suggestion made gets declined, when that is not the case if you just look around
 
Jermaphobe said:
You're assuming any and every suggestion made gets declined, when that is not the case if you just look around
Click to expand...
Some do get accepted, yes. But the fact remains that community approval was rendered effectively meaningless in the aforementioned cinema removal and nomination cooldown increase suggestions, as examples.
 
Max1996 said:
Some do get accepted, yes. But the fact remains that community approval was rendered effectively meaningless in the aforementioned cinema removal and nomination cooldown increase suggestions, as examples.
Click to expand...
Again, assuming Bottiger does not listen to the community. He does, he does not reject a suggestion without a reason. He doesn't give a reason a lot of times, but thats his choice, he can do what he wants

You just don't like that Bottiger and Bottiger only has the final say what goes on his own servers
 
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