Need Evidence Neons - Griefmuting me/Discrimination.

[[KSI] Barbados Slim]

Summary:
Griefmuting me/Discrimination.

Player Name:
Neons

SteamID:
[U:1:233563801]
https://stats.skial.com/#summary/player/SteamID/All/[U:1:233563801]
https://www.skial.com/sourcebans/index.php?p=banlist&advType=steamid&advSearch=[U:1:233563801]
https://www.skial.com/sourcebans/index.php?p=commslist&advType=steamid&advSearch=[U:1:233563801]

Time:
A short time ago. (~6:54 pm EST)

Servers:
TRADE | NY

Detailed Explanation / Screenshots / Demos:
Screenshot: http://i.imgur.com/YuyUVgF.png

This is the third or fourth time different people have clearly discriminated against me on the Skial servers because of my youth.

In this instance, a few players were harassing me in voice chat by saying "they couldn't hear me" and finally Neon's here decided to votemute me because I was responding to the jerks who kept saying that they couldn't hear me or understand me in a derogatory way.

I had been previously harassed in front of a Skial member with some authority (Meowsenary I think is name was) and he failed to take action against the people who griefmuted me and admitted to it. Can you please start dealing with these guys? It makes me sad.

 

[RMSniper]

I fail to see how you have provided sufficient proof they were vote abusing you or even "discriminating" against you. You have provided no demo where we can hear your voice in order to have all sides of the story, and your chat log from today shows no evidence there. Additionally, neon only called one vote on you, and he did not have any comments about that vote or said anything towards you. I am marking this need evidence.

 

[[KSI] Barbados Slim]

I fail to see how you have provided sufficient proof they were vote abusing you or even "discriminating" against you. You have provided no demo where we can hear your voice in order to have all sides of the story, and your chat log from today shows no evidence there. Additionally, neon only called one vote on you, and he did not have any comments about that vote or said anything towards you. I am marking this need evidence.

I fail to see how I would be able to turn on my demo to capture the instance when I didn't know they would grief me until after they called the vote. Are you suggesting that I have to record every instance of myself being on your server on the odd case some jerk will grief me and mute me for 30 minutes? You have to have a better system in place to deal with this.

 

[RMSniper]

I fail to see how I would be able to turn on my demo to capture the instance when I didn't know they would grief me until after they called the vote. Are you suggesting that I have to record every instance of myself being on your server on the odd case some jerk will grief me and mute me for 30 minutes? You have to have a better system in place to deal with this.

No, I'm not suggesting that. Some people actually do that through shadow play as they find themselves vote abused often. You must also understand that I cannot take your word for something/only your side and not consider the other side? It's being objective.

 

[[KSI] Barbados Slim]

No, I'm not suggesting that. Some people actually do that through shadow play as they find themselves vote abused often. You must also understand that I cannot take your word for something/only your side and not consider the other side? It's being objective.

How can you say you're being objective when you're implicitly taking their side by allowing their commban to stay?

 

[RMSniper]

How can you say you're being objective when you're implicitly taking their side by allowing their commban to stay?

And what happens if I take your side and silence them, when you could be lying? Do you see my point? I'm not taking any side. I am asking for proof that what they did was wrong, and, if you can't provide it (which is not your fault), then you can't expect me or any other admin to silence without proof. It's not fair to either side.

Your silence expires in 4 minutes, also.

 

[[KSI] Barbados Slim]

And what happens if I take your side and silence them, when you could be lying?

Yeah it would be very unfair for someone to be erroneously silenced for 30 minutes because someone could be lying... That's pretty apropos.

I am asking for proof that what they did was wrong, and, if you can't provide it (which is not your fault), then you can't expect me or any other admin to silence without proof. It's not fair to either side.

Then why did you take their side? Call me crazy but I see three possible outcomes you could have taken here:

A) Mute the guy griefing me without evidence.
B) Do not mute the guy griefing me without evidence but see the lack of evidence against me as well and uncomm block me.
C) Do not mute the guy griefing me and allow the commblock to stand.

I will grant A is bias to me. However, option C shows a clear bias against me.

And what I really don't understand is if my commblock for 4 minutes wasn't such a big deal that you wouldn't just undo it, then why the stonewall on commblocking Neon? Either a Commblock is a serious punishment or not.

 

[RMSniper]

Yeah it would be very unfair for someone to be erroneously silenced for 30 minutes because someone could be lying... That's pretty apropos.



Then why did you take their side? Call me crazy but I see three possible outcomes you could have taken here:

A) Mute the guy griefing me without evidence.
B) Do not mute the guy griefing me without evidence but see the lack of evidence against me as well and uncomm block me.
C) Do not mute the guy griefing me and allow the commblock to stand.

I will grant A is bias to me. However, option C shows a clear bias against me.

And what I really don't understand is if my commblock for 4 minutes wasn't such a big deal that you wouldn't just undo it, then why the stonewall on commblocking Neon? Either a Commblock is a serious punishment or not.

If I went through and removed all vote silences and vote bans just because I saw no obvious proof, there would be a huge firestorm against me (and any other admin who did that). I would have to do that if I removed yours. I'm not going to set a precedent of unsilencing someone's vote silence simply because there's no proof the vote silence wasn't valid. Should I go into the courtroom tomorrow and tell the judge that, for all of his cases where the only proof is "he said, she said", he should go ahead and mark them as guilty? You're being unreasonable here. I'm not going to unsilence someone without proof their silence is invalid, and I'm not going to silence someone for vote abuse without proof that the person did vote abuse. I'm not going to ban someone for hacking just because someone says they are, etc. etc. etc. That's unreasonable and wrong, and we are held to a higher standard than that.

If you want a second opinion, ask for it, but you're being highly unreasonable, and no other admin is going to grant your wish because we take all reports and appeals seriously and require proper evidence. You're not a special case.

 

[[KSI] Barbados Slim]

If I went through and removed all vote silences and vote bans just because I saw no obvious proof, there would be a huge firestorm against me (and any other admin who did that). I would have to do that if I removed yours. I'm not going to set a precedent of unsilencing someone's vote silence simply because there's no proof the vote silence wasn't valid. Should I go into the courtroom tomorrow and tell the judge that, for all of his cases where the only proof is "he said, she said", he should go ahead and mark them as guilty? You're being unreasonable here. I'm not going to unsilence someone without proof their silence is invalid, and I'm not going to silence someone for vote abuse without proof that the person did vote abuse. I'm not going to ban someone for hacking just because someone says they are, etc. etc. etc. That's unreasonable and wrong, and we are held to a higher standard than that.

What standard are you held to then? I went ahead and looked up this Neon's chat based on the SkialStats page and he seems completely at ease calling people "fagets," "retard" and "gays."

Compare that to myself... I looked up my own stats page and apparently I've been playing on Skial servers for a bit over four years now. In such time I've only been silenced 4 times and twice in the past week. Both times it was the results of jerks abusing the vote system. I don't mean to toot my own horn here but to choose between two parties to listen to I know which one sounds better objectively.

Even if you don't want to take that into account, you can be serious here. Just look at this chat:

https://stats.skial.com/#chat-context/129271027
https://stats.skial.com/#chat-context/129255614
https://stats.skial.com/#chat-context/129198609

You don't need my word for any of this... It's proof that you could have accessed yourself. He clearly makes repeated homophobic messages and calling people retards... And he's the guy you trust was acting in good faith.

If you want a second opinion, ask for it, but you're being highly unreasonable, and no other admin is going to grant your wish because we take all reports and appeals seriously and require proper evidence. You're not a special case.

I don't think I'm being unreasonable when it's pretty clear you didn't investigate this guy. Or are you going to tell me you're allowed to just keep calling people "gay," "faget" and "retard" and you are just hunky-dory with that.

Yes, I would like a second Skial Administrator to come in here and tell me that it's OK on skial servers to repeatedly call people "gay" "faget" and "retard." I would like them to say to me that someone who has previously been banned by a Skial administrator for griefing (https://www.skial.com/sourcebans/index.php?p=banlist&advSearch=[U:1:233563801]&advType=steamid) is a trustworthy source and should be trusted. The problem here is that I do not doubt that another Skial Admin will come in here and say these things... However, I still would like to see it explicitly anyways.

 

[RMSniper]

What standard are you held to then? I went ahead and looked up this Neon's chat based on the SkialStats page and he seems completely at ease calling people "fagets," "retard" and "gays."

Those words are allowed, check the rules...
https://www.skial.com/threads/server-rules.136/

Racism and other discrimination towards gender, religion, and sexual orientation.

• Any form of the word nigger (nigga, nigg etc.) is not allowed even if you are just quoting a rap song or you are black, to prevent racists and kids using the same excuse.
• Generic insults (faggot, whore, etc.) by themselves do not classify as discrimination.

Compare that to myself... I looked up my own stats page and apparently I've been playing on Skial servers for a bit over four years now. In such time I've only been silenced 4 times and twice in the past week. Both times it was the results of jerks abusing the vote system. I don't mean to toot my own horn here but to choose between two parties to listen to I know which one sounds better objectively.

We don't use how good you've been versus how good someone else has been as proof.

Even if you don't want to take that into account, you can be serious here. Just look at this chat:

https://stats.skial.com/#chat-context/129271027
https://stats.skial.com/#chat-context/129255614
https://stats.skial.com/#chat-context/129198609

You don't need my word for any of this... It's proof that you could have accessed yourself. He clearly makes repeated homophobic messages and calling people retards... And he's the guy you trust was acting in good faith.

Again, those aren't against the rules. See above. You're not giving valid arguments here.

I don't think I'm being unreasonable when it's pretty clear you didn't investigate this guy. Or are you going to tell me you're allowed to just keep calling people "gay," "faget" and "retard" and you are just hunky-dory with that.

Yep, it's hunky-dory, as the rules clearly say. I'm being quite reasonable in following all the rules and standards set forth.

Yes, I would like a second Skial Administrator to come in here and tell me that it's OK on skial servers to repeatedly call people "gay" "faget" and "retard." I would like them to say to me that someone who has previously been banned by a Skial administrator for griefing (https://www.skial.com/sourcebans/index.php?p=banlist&advSearch=[U:1:233563801]&advType=steamid) is a trustworthy source and should be trusted.

No, I don't trust them, just like I don't trust you. We don't "trust" anyone. We go case-by-case looking for proof and do not apply punishments unless given. Again, you're not a special snowflake here. You will find thousands, upon THOUSANDS, of reports in this forum that are marked "need evidence" by 20+ admins simply because they do not have evidence to proceed with a punishment.

The problem here is that I do not doubt that another Skial Admin will come in here and say these things... However, I still would like to see it explicitly anyways.

That's fine. I was looking for one on my list to ask to come in here, but they're all offline. You'll have to wait until someone sees this, or I can ask someone to come.
@KillerZebra
@Biggie
@DaivdBaekr

 

[[KSI] Barbados Slim]

Sweet.

• Generic insults (faggot, whore, etc.) by themselves do not classify as discrimination

The thing here is "by themselves" is key phrase in the wording here. Calling someone a faggot randomly would apply to what you're saying here... As in "Stop bodyshooting me faggot."

However, how Neon uses it crosses the from "by themselves" into flat discrimination. He's referencing being homosexual not using the words themselves as some catch-all insult.

Ergo, he's actually guilty of "Racism and other discrimination towards gender, religion, and sexual orientation."

 

[[KSI] Barbados Slim]

I would also like to point out that based on skial mute reports Neon has previously been silenced twice before for "Vote Abuse" and four times in total... As if there isn't a pattern to be seen here.

https://www.skial.com/sourcebans/index.php?p=commslist&advType=steamid&advSearch=[U:1:233563801]

 

[Biggie]

All those things that neon said is technically trash talking. Also, since its just hearsay, that's not enough evidence to issue an ban/silence for the potential vote-menu abuse.

If you would like something done though, I would recommend you taking a demo of said things/events that are happening so we have firm evidence to go off of, that includes vote-menu abuse as well.

My 2 cents.

 

[[KSI] Barbados Slim]

So RMSniper has expressed that I posted something dumb. Cool... I really feel the objectivity and high standard coming from her.

Edit:
In what capacity do you disagree with me Sniper? Is it that you disagree that you're not being objective and showing a high standard? I don't think resorting to this kind of behavior really says you're held to a high standard... but that's my two cents. I suppose you could be disagreeing with that and randomly provoking/prodding me is just cool for an admin to do.

 

[Adora]

If you have a GeForce graphics card, then I recommend installing the GeForce Experience for times like this. It lets you grab a recording of the past many minutes of gameplay, at any time. As for this report -- from the perspective of a fellow player -- I suggest you take a deep breath and let it go. Arguing any further is pointless as it's clear there's no videos or demos of what happened. Your silence is gone by now, and the player too.

So RMSniper has expressed that I posted something dumb. Cool... I really feel the objectivity and high standard coming from her.

She dumb rated you because what you said had nothing to do with the report. Past moderation does nothing to prove guilt. Please don't take it personally.