Declined Middleman App: Sniper Pro

[Sniper Pro]

How often would you be available to trade?:

Usually at least 5 hours per day, whenever I'm online basically.​

What country do you live in?:

USA​

What is the highest value trade you have completed so far (with risk, or without, list both)?:

With: Golden Pan for $1800 Paypal, Without: Trade for Harvest Moon KE (value of about 3000 keys)​

Do you have any prior middleman experiences?:

As an admin for FirePowered I've middlemanned many spycrabs on our unusual server over the past 9 months or so. I've also middlemanned several trades for friends and traders who asked me to do so because they trust me. Sometimes people ask me to middleman because of how much Paypal rep I have.​

You're middleman'ing a trade, and the seller claims to have not received the money after the buyer says he sent it. How do you proceed?:

At this point I ask the buyer to send me an uncropped screenshot of their Paypal transactions to see whether or not they actually sent the money. I do not transfer any items to either party until I am certain whether or not the money has been sent. Sometimes Paypal transactions take a bit to go through, so patience is always critical when dealing with tricky situations like these.​

The buyer and seller are negotiating between Steam items, and items from a non-Steam game. How do you handle this transactin?:

I will not middleman any items from non-steam games. While some middleman might be comfortable with this, I am not comfortable with the added risk that comes from trading non-steam games. A good example of the issues these pose is game codes or gift cards, which are a big source of scams within the community.​

The seller is a tagged scammer on SteamRep. While it's impossible for him to rip anybody off if you're effectively middlemanning, do you still proceed with the transaction? If so, how? What about pending reports, or caution tags?:

I do not middleman for anyone with a Banned Tag on SteamRep. Cautioned players can be middlemanned for in some situations if all parties are comfortable with the trade, same goes for pending reports (unless these pending reports will almost certainly result in a banned tag). It's all about context, and these things need to be checked carefully before doing any middlemanning.​

Do you have any form of reputation? Be it a rep thread or feedback on a trading site?:

Paypal Rep: http://bazaar.tf/thread/4523 , http://backpack.tf/trust/76561198059316053 , and http://forums.f-o-g.eu/threads/10294-sniper-pros-rep-thread.html

Brokering Rep (requires same sort of trust as middlemanning): http://bazaar.tf/thread/6075

Outpost Cash Trades (currently out of service until I sell some of my unusuals): http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20462580 , http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/18048046

• Bought: 502 Buds, 6944 Keys, 7 Max's, 1 B.M.O.C., 14 Bill's, 281 Refined Metal, 1 SF Rocket Launcher, and 1 BP
• Sold: 424 BUDS and 7725 KEYS

In addition to these things, I'm currently an admin on FirePowered (a SR friend community), and have led efforts to get FirePowered partnered with SR to allow us to process scam reports.​

Why should you represent Skial's community of traders on SteamRep?:

I feel that I am a well-known trader in the community at this point. I've been trading for almost 5 years now, and have built up quite a bit of reputation and trust in the TF2 community. Middlemanning is something I've always wanted to do, and I feel that I'm ready to do so. I know Skial has an enormous playerbase, many of whom are traders, and I would love to represent such a large trading community in the best way that I can. In addition, I feel that I also represent myself very professionally, which is important when representing a larger group. I know how to document trades appropriately for middlemanning and Paypal transactions, which is critical when dealing with issues that may arise from past trades.

I thank you for considering my application and I hope to hear from you soon!

EDIT: Updated some details in the questions.​

 

[Sargent¥]

I̶'̶l̶l̶ ̶g̶i̶v̶e̶ ̶i̶t̶ ̶a̶ ̶s̶h̶o̶t̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶+̶1̶,̶ ̶I̶ ̶s̶u̶g̶g̶e̶s̶t̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶ ̶g̶e̶t̶ ̶v̶o̶u̶c̶h̶e̶s̶ ̶f̶r̶o̶m̶ ̶a̶n̶y̶o̶n̶e̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶ ̶h̶e̶l̶p̶e̶d̶ ̶b̶y̶ ̶m̶i̶d̶d̶l̶e̶m̶a̶n̶n̶i̶n̶g̶.̶

Edit: Change to -1 based on your history with trading with scammers.

 

[Sniper Pro]

I'll give it a shot and +1, I suggest you get vouches from anyone you helped by middlemanning.

Well since most of them were on our server I'm not sure how many I can get. I did link my brokering rep thread, but would it help to get vouches for Paypal transactions from some of my frequent traders?

 

[Sniper Pro]

I̶'̶l̶l̶ ̶g̶i̶v̶e̶ ̶i̶t̶ ̶a̶ ̶s̶h̶o̶t̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶+̶1̶,̶ ̶I̶ ̶s̶u̶g̶g̶e̶s̶t̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶ ̶g̶e̶t̶ ̶v̶o̶u̶c̶h̶e̶s̶ ̶f̶r̶o̶m̶ ̶a̶n̶y̶o̶n̶e̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶ ̶h̶e̶l̶p̶e̶d̶ ̶b̶y̶ ̶m̶i̶d̶d̶l̶e̶m̶a̶n̶n̶i̶n̶g̶.̶

Edit: Change to -1 based on your history with trading with scammers.

What history is that?

 

[Sargent¥]

What history is that?

Several bans on outpost, including trading with marked scammers and giving misleading information to get items for cheaper. If you trade with marked scammers, I'm not content with you middlemanning on our behalf.

 

[Sniper Pro]

Several bans on outpost, including trading with marked scammers and giving misleading information to get items for cheaper. If you trade with marked scammers, I'm not content with you middlemanning on our behalf.

Am I allowed to defend myself or respond to this at all to give context or is it simply "ban somewhere = declined."

EDIT: I'll just go ahead and do it since I have the time.

I believe you're talking about the ban for trading with Aditya a while ago, since that's the only "trading with scammers" ban I've received anywhere, so I'll fill you in:

Basically what happened is before Aditya was marked, he and I had worked out a deal for a trade for a few unusuals. Before we could trade though, I had to get a few keys to satisfy the terms of the deal. By the time I had gotten the keys, it was pretty late and he was no longer offline, so I sent over a trade offer and logged off. Unbeknownst to me at the time, he had a pending scammer report on him at FoG, which conveniently went through the next day and he obviously accepted my trade offer. A day later, I was approached by Sirploko from Outpost and he asked me what had happened. I had no idea the report had gone through in the time between the sent trade offer and him accepting it, so I told Sirploko everything that happened. His response was basically "well that checks out and I believe you, but since the trade offer went through I have to give you a 2-week warning ban. Thank you for being honest." If you ask him I believe he will confirm all that (if he remembers). So that's how I technically traded with a scammer, but I would hope you can agree that it was an unfortunate circumstance and doesn't really show any malicious attempt on my part. I've had no other trade-related offenses of any kind before or since.

As for the "giving misleading information to get items for cheaper" I honestly don't know what you're talking about. I'm happy to respond but you'll have to give me more context.

 

[Sargent¥]

Am I allowed to defend myself or respond to this at all to give context or is it simply "ban somewhere = declined."

EDIT: I'll just go ahead and do it since I have the time.

I believe you're talking about the ban for trading with Aditya a while ago, since that's the only "trading with scammers" ban I've received anywhere, so I'll fill you in:

Basically what happened is before Aditya was marked, he and I had worked out a deal for a trade for a few unusuals. Before we could trade though, I had to get a few keys to satisfy the terms of the deal. By the time I had gotten the keys, it was pretty late and he was no longer offline, so I sent over a trade offer and logged off. Unbeknownst to me at the time, he had a pending scammer report on him at FoG, which conveniently went through the next day and he obviously accepted my trade offer. A day later, I was approached by Sirploko from Outpost and he asked me what had happened. I had no idea the report had gone through in the time between the sent trade offer and him accepting it, so I told Sirploko everything that happened. His response was basically "well that checks out and I believe you, but since the trade offer went through I have to give you a 2-week warning ban. Thank you for being honest." If you ask him I believe he will confirm all that (if he remembers). So that's how I technically traded with a scammer, but I would hope you can agree that it was an unfortunate circumstance and doesn't really show any malicious attempt on my part. I've had no other trade-related offenses of any kind before or since.

As for the "giving misleading information to get items for cheaper" I honestly don't know what you're talking about. I'm happy to respond but you'll have to give me more context.

I looked into the case a bit more and everything you said checks in but I'm still not content with having someone represent Skial as a middleman that doesn't do their research.

 

[Sniper Pro]

I looked into the case a bit more and everything you said checks in but I'm still not content with having someone represent Skial as a middleman that doesn't do their research.

But what research did I not do? When I sent the trade offer he wasn't marked and had no pending SR reports. I think it's a bit much to ask me to check the pending reports of every single SR partner (10+ of them) every time I make a trade. Had I done the trade offer 24 hours later I would have seen he was marked and not sent it at all. I don't know what else I could have done. This is one tiny slip-up in an otherwise clean 4.5 year trading career, it seems unfortunate to deny me for that considering the amount of reputation I have and my commitment to the community. If you're truly looking for qualified middlemen as you say in the readme then I would consider it quite a loss if that's the only reason you deny me.

 

[rannmann]

I'm not sure if this means anything since Sniper Pro already has a lot more trading rep than I could ever muster, but I'd like to vouch for him. I've been watching this thread unfold from IRC and don't really understand why trading with a scammer who was marked after a trade was initiated would be a disqualifying factor.

I'm one of the owners of FirePowered gaming and he's been a valued member of our community for over two years. He's one of three administrators (four if you include Senior Admins) of our 18 TF2 servers, two of which are trading servers that have been around for around five years. Our admin application process is pretty strict as far as TF2 communities go. He's exceeded our expectations at every step along the way and has put in countless volunteer hours helping our users whether middle-manning or not. We've had over a million unique players on our servers over the years and not a single one has said anything negative about him.

I'm no expert-trader (I leave that to the bots!), but I can attest Sniper Pro's character is as rock-solid and good-natured as you can find. I trust in his thoroughness on a daily basis and have never been disappointed. I agree that if you really want volunteers to help prevent scamming, you would be wise to avoid overlooking his application.

 

[Faron]

But what research did I not do? When I sent the trade offer he wasn't marked and had no pending SR reports. I think it's a bit much to ask me to check the pending reports of every single SR partner (10+ of them) every time I make a trade. Had I done the trade offer 24 hours later I would have seen he was marked and not sent it at all. I don't know what else I could have done. This is one tiny slip-up in an otherwise clean 4.5 year trading career, it seems unfortunate to deny me for that considering the amount of reputation I have and my commitment to the community. If you're truly looking for qualified middlemen as you say in the readme then I would consider it quite a loss if that's the only reason you deny me.

I'm not going to deny you just from this because I would of done the same thing. No one expects you to check all partner sites for reports on the guy. No one (or at least I) would check a guy's steamrep one day and see he's clean, and then check the following day. No one expects a guy to get a scammer tag in 24 hours.

 

[Dolan Trump]

I'll go ahead and give him a vouch. I've known Sniper personally for a long time and he's been nothing but the absolute best and most professional trade admin I've ever seen.

 

[LordWalnut]

I like how calm and centered you stayed, so +1, or a vouch.

 

[Sniper Pro]

Just wanted to ask if there are any updates on this application and what kind of timeline I should expect regarding a decision. Thanks! :blush:

 

[Faron]

Just wanted to ask if there are any updates on this application and what kind of timeline I should expect regarding a decision. Thanks! :blush:

Since you asked, here it is:
I am denying this application.

We do not want middlemen who are sneaky and try and get away with things they shouldn't, and I have found you to be both. This, among other conduct and behavior I don't want skial middlemen to have.

 

[White Moose]

-1 Not trusting even 1 scrap with this "middleman".

 

[Sniper Pro]

Since you asked, here it is:
I am denying this application.

We do not want middlemen who are sneaky and try and get away with things they shouldn't, and I have found you to be both. This, among other conduct and behavior I don't want skial middlemen to have.

Can you elaborate on that? I don't understand how I'm "sneaky" and "try to get away with things I shouldn't." And what conduct and behavior are you talking about?

 

[Dr. McKay]

I'm not going to deny you just from this because I would of done the same thing. No one expects you to check all partner sites for reports on the guy. No one (or at least I) would check a guy's steamrep one day and see he's clean, and then check the following day. No one expects a guy to get a scammer tag in 24 hours.

Since you asked, here it is:
I am denying this application.

We do not want middlemen who are sneaky and try and get away with things they shouldn't, and I have found you to be both. This, among other conduct and behavior I don't want skial middlemen to have.

What changed? If Sniper is "sneaky", that's something I need to know about as it would potentially cause FirePowered to reassess his adminship.

 

[RMSniper]

Can you elaborate on that? I don't understand how I'm "sneaky" and "try to get away with things I shouldn't." And what conduct and behavior are you talking about?

Perhaps private message him or ask in Unmod. It sounds like he has a pretty detailed reason. :blush:

 

[Faron]

What changed? If Sniper is "sneaky", that's something I need to know about as it would potentially cause FirePowered to reassess his adminship.

Nothing. I'm referring to completely different incidents.

Can you elaborate on that? I don't understand how I'm "sneaky" and "try to get away with things I shouldn't." And what conduct and behavior are you talking about?

PM me