Declined Improvements to Votemenu

[Luke]

Related Suggestion, I have posted this separately as it is a different solution.

Scenario

Currently
I'm sure many of you are aware of this, however I will explain as it is the basis for my suggestion, if you currently join a Skial server then you can use these two commands: /votemenu, /report - depending on which command you select, you will see two different things:

/votemenu
...skipped some options:

1. Mute and gag <player> for <value>
   1. Racism
   2. Spam

1. Ban <player> for 30 minutes for <value>
   1. Hacking
   2. Spamming
   3. Griefing
   4. Impersonating Admins

/report
...after selecting player:

1. Aimbot
2. Wallhack
3. Racism
4. Griefing
5. Voice Spam
6. Chat Spam
7. Report Spam
8. Vote Spam
9. Map Exploit
10. Game Exploit
11. Admin Impersonation
12. Bypassing AFK Manager
13. DDoS

Suggested
Would it be possible to change the commands configuration to the following:

/votemenu
...skipped some options:

1. Mute and gag <player> for <value>
   1. Discrimination (or split into: "Racism", "Sexism", "Religion Based Attack", "Sexual Orientation Based Attack")
      
   2. Voice Spam
   3. Chat Spam
   4. Report Spam
   5. Vote Spam
   6. Admin Impersonation
   7. Advertising Hacks
   8. Attempting to Scam
   9. Posting Private Information
2. Ban <player> for 30 minutes for <value>
   1. Hacking
      
   2. Harming Own Team (changed from "Griefing")
      
   3. Game Exploit
   4. Admin Impersonation
   5. Bypassing AFK Manager
   6. Advertising Hacks
      
   7. DDoS (or simply "Threatening Skial Servers")
   8. Threatening Skial Staff
   9. Attempting to Scam
   10. Posting Private Information

...I have put numerous options in both, this could depend on the scale of the abuse- or it could just be kept in one depending on how the TF2 Admins would prefer. I'm very much open to suggestions about how these should be arranged.

/report
Remove this command.
​

Continue Reading - Important
Removing the /report command is a step which I believe is important because from my experience, people do not know how to use this command (myself included before @RMSniper informed me), the notification for typing !votereport only appears in chat, meaning that it has less visibility than that of the server votes... plus it only requires three people for the automated vote to go through.

My suggestion is that if a votemenu passes, then the Reporter should post a report just like how the current /report command works, furthermore the requirement for a votemenu should be lowered- it is hard to get enough people to vote within the current situation, for numerous reasons, I suggest a number around 51%... unless this is configurable to the type of vote (next paragraph).

Configurable Vote Requirements
If this is possible, then I would suggest that votemenu should only require 50% of the server because:

• When all talk is off, only 50% of the server hears it
• Players could be spamming through the team chat
• Players often cannot hear the game sounds
  • Music on in the background (loud)
  • Music on in the background (and muted TF2)
  • Broken/unplugged audio output

Edits:
Replaced "Aimbot" & "Wallhack" with "Hacking", thanks @cloked
Replaced "Offensive Language" with "Discrimination", thanks @Infamous 2

TL;DR
The current votemenu system needs improving, the report command should be removed and instead be used when a votemenu passes... this would solve some of the issues with confusion over what commands are for and be inclusive of each rule break.

 

[cloked]

i have to say this looks like a better menu option then what we have now and it also so makes it more clear on what option is for what

 

[Luke]

I'm glad you agree, thanks for helping.

Chatlog Quotes (permission given)

=CK= cloked: well done that idea is better the changeing the rules as u are right and not everyone reads them but that new menu makes it very clear
[LsrW] Luke: Hopefully everyone else agrees haha
=CK= cloked: lol well it makes sence i didnt even know we had a report opthion
[LsrW] Luke: Exactly, many players don't.
[LsrW] Luke: It requires one player to know about the command and do: /report, <select name>, <select reason>
It then puts in the chat "<player> wants to report <player> for <reason>, type !votereport to support"
And after three people have typed !votereport, it gets posted onto the forum... it is too much work.
[LsrW] Luke: If people are talking in the chat or people are saying "MEDIC!" the message is often completely missed.
=CK= cloked: yeah and your right griefing should be taken off the vote ban because it can mean to many things and they our all right but its down the indeviul servers to what it means

 

[mike-kirby]

I'm glad you agree, thanks for helping.

If this is the reason why you made this, then I would recommend changing the /report command so it stays on the screen like a nomination or a vote. But instead of simply pressing 4 or 5, keep it to !votereport. Many people just press it because it's easy and don't care what would actually happen. If they have to type !votereport then I assume less people would do it, but the people that do want to report the person can easily see what they have to do.
I'm only saying this because things like giving out others personal information or hacking shouldn't need more than half the players to pass when most of them don't even pay attention to that. (And don't change it to 50%. It has a low success rate, but for a reason. I've been muted and banned for no reason before and that's with around 70-80%).

I find the extra options in the votemenu pretty good though. It would definitely make some situations easier to handle.

 

[Luke]

If this is the reason why you made this, then I would recommend changing the /report command so it stays on the screen like a nomination or a vote. But instead of simply pressing 4 or 5, keep it to !votereport. Many people just press it because it's easy and don't care what would actually happen. If they have to type !votereport then I assume less people would do it, but the people that do want to report the person can easily see what they have to do.
I'm only saying this because things like giving out others personal information or hacking shouldn't need more than half the players to pass when most of them don't even pay attention to that. (And don't change it to 50%. It has a low success rate, but for a reason. I've been muted and banned for no reason before and that's with around 70-80%).

I find the extra options in the votemenu pretty good though. It would definitely make some situations easier to handle.

I feel like if you improve the votemenu command, there's really no need for a report command, since /report has no actual effect until an admin sees it- why not have the player muted/banned and the report published at the same time?

 

[RMSniper]

I feel like if you improve the votemenu command, there's really no need for a report command, since /report has no actual effect until an admin sees it- why not have the player muted/banned and the report published at the same time?

If votemenu stays at a 30 minute value, then repeat offenders would only have to serve punishments for 30 minutes unless an admin caught on. Hence the great importance of the report function. If votemenu values go up, then the votemenu could just be abused, and victims would be abused for a longer period of time. I feel like it encourages votemenu abuse if you had to always use votemenu to do a report.

 

[Luke]

If votemenu stays at a 30 minute value, then repeat offenders would only have to serve punishments for 30 minutes unless an admin caught on. Hence the great importance of the report function. If votemenu values go up, then the votemenu could just be abused, and victims would be abused for a longer period of time. I feel like it encourages votemenu abuse if you had to always use votemenu to do a report.

No, as my suggestion says that after a votemenu has gone through a report is automatically made (like the current /report function)... so everything is exactly the same, except it is quicker because the 30 minute punishment and report have been rolled into one.

 

[RMSniper]

No, as my suggestion says that after a votemenu has gone through a report is automatically made (like the current /report function)... so everything is exactly the same, except it is quicker because the 30 minute punishment and report have been rolled into one.

I read your suggestion just fine. "I feel like it encourages votemenu abuse if you had to always use votemenu to do a report," is clear evidence that I understood your point. I simply made other side comments before getting to my opinion, which is presented in that sentence.

 

[Luke]

I read your suggestion just fine. "I feel like it encourages votemenu abuse if you had to always use votemenu to do a report," is clear evidence that I understood your point. I simply made other side comments before getting to my opinion, which is presented in that sentence.

I guess I don't understand your point then?

Edit: It's not votemenu abuse if the person is actually breaking the rules?

 

[Bottiger]

I don't think it is worth the effort.

The main reason why there's a report and a vote command is because they are 2 separate plugins and I feel like there's almost no benefit for all the work that is needed to combine them.

Sometimes you can easily get rid of a problem with votemenu that admins don't need to be bothered. Sometimes someone need to be banned and the server can't pass the 90% threshold. That's why they are separate and I don't see a reason to combine them.

All votemenus end up in sourcebans so we can see who is repeatedly getting voted on.

If this is too confusing for some people, then I am sorry, they will just have to deal with it. This seems really easy for me to understand.

 

[Shanners]

I don't think this is very necessary honestly, the current feature works from my experience and I believe it would just over complicate a simple process.

 

[cloked]

i think this is a good vote menu option and i can understand what you all our saying but I do think that the vote ban for Griefing should come off as it can mean so many different things and it is down the admins on what it means and that option can confuse people aka me

 

[Luke]

Thank you for your quick response, @Bottiger

The main reason why there's a report and a vote command is because they are 2 separate plugins and I feel like there's almost no benefit for all the work that is needed to combine them.

Absolutely, that is fair enough- I thought it might come down to that, thought it was worth a try.

Sometimes you can easily get rid of a problem with votemenu that admins don't need to be bothered. Sometimes someone need to be banned and the server can't pass the 90% threshold. That's why they are separate and I don't see a reason to combine them.

Could I inquire about why the votemenu threshold is so high?

All votemenus end up in sourcebans so we can see who is repeatedly getting voted on.

I didn't think about that to be honest, very good point.

If this is too confusing for some people, then I am sorry, they will just have to deal with it. This seems really easy for me to understand.

Personally I have no problem with the current system, though I wouldn't mind these improvements. I thought it could help clarify what the specific commands are for, specifically relating to the linked post by @cloked - and others who may be confused by the options.

Finally, thank you again for responding so quickly to this suggestion!

 

[cloked]

is it possible to lower the fresh hold just on the mute option because when all talk is off we need both teams to vote and only one team can hear the mic spamming

 

[T-Wayne]

I think adding all these options would help to see in detail why somebody was silenced or banned or kicked. However from experience people just hit random buttons to do a silence. For example a micspammer will get a racism reason for a mute.
But if the workload to implement this all is too much and that is what it seems to be, the result of clicking through a whole system of options is probably less helpful than the simple one that already is established.