Saharan Spy?
- Thread starter Zefyre
- Start date
Zefyre
Gore-Spattered Heavy
I don't think its horrible, but I do think its a very cheap weapon. I prefer the default invisible watch because it lets you take a slower approach to things and not go head on with everything.
Stock Watch would likely compliment L'Etranger better than C&D.
I am not going to entertain the idea of DR.
You could take or leave the YER.
I am not going to entertain the idea of DR.
You could take or leave the YER.
Zefyre
Gore-Spattered Heavy
Hmm the YER appeals to me because I can stab an engie without fearing the sentry haha but thanks a lot! :)
The great thing about spy weapons right now is that EVERY single one is viable. I am writing all of this with pubs in mind. Comp weapon selection is a whole other mindset.
Stock everything is the most versatile. I highly suggest that spies spend at least 100 hours just on stock. I made the mistake of not doing that and had to spend many more hours unlearning bad habits.
The revolver is strong, the knife has no downsides, and the IW can get you anywhere you want to go and you can maintain cloak for a long time if you know how to surf ammo.
The amby is great if you have good aim. If you aren't getting those 102's though you are losing damage. Amby headshots have no limits, if you can aim you can be very dangerous.
The diamondback is now viable, it is similar to the amby in that you can get 102's but instead of rewarded for aim, you are rewarded for backstabs or sapping. If you have those crits stored up you can be scary.
L'Etranger is a great cloak upgrade. You lose a little damage, but it complements all the other watches in its own way. With the C&D it gives much more mobility. C&D spies are often ridiculed in pubs because they spend a lot of time just waiting. The L'Etranger upgrades this a little bit. With the DR it gives a little more unpredictability. Most competent players know that when you feign you will be headed for the closest ammo pack to recharge. The extra cloak time gives more area to get away and you can you to the further away ammo, or at least get further away to recharge. And it just makes the IW even better with cloak for days.
With watches, admittedly C&D is the least useful in pubs, I use it a lot on first point payload on defense.
The DR is the most controversial spy item. People call it a crutch or whatever. I started off only using the DR, then I switched to using the others and shunned it. I have recently been using the DR more in pubs getting back in practice, because there are times when it is useful to use. Part of its effectiveness is the element of surprise. If you have been using another watch for the whole round, and suddenly switch to DR, make a believable feign, then the enemy is A LOT less likely to realize that you are still alive, and you can catch them off guard.
The brings me to my last point about the DR. The 'believable feign' I think that is where most of the DR hate comes from. The fact that some spies don't use the watch as an illusion tool, but just to block damage. They will +forward to the enemy with the DR up until one little thing sets it off and then they try to get behind the lines. Or they hold it up 24/7 to make sure they never take much damage and give themselves time to escape. I wish that Valve would change it so that you can only hold it up for limited time (like 5 seconds or so) and also once you drop it you cannot bring it up right away, maybe a cooldown of 5 seconds or so. That might encourage the proper use of the weapon i.e. actually faking a death.
Finally, sappers...
If you use the Red Tape you should be punched in the gooch.
Stock everything is the most versatile. I highly suggest that spies spend at least 100 hours just on stock. I made the mistake of not doing that and had to spend many more hours unlearning bad habits.
The revolver is strong, the knife has no downsides, and the IW can get you anywhere you want to go and you can maintain cloak for a long time if you know how to surf ammo.
The amby is great if you have good aim. If you aren't getting those 102's though you are losing damage. Amby headshots have no limits, if you can aim you can be very dangerous.
The diamondback is now viable, it is similar to the amby in that you can get 102's but instead of rewarded for aim, you are rewarded for backstabs or sapping. If you have those crits stored up you can be scary.
L'Etranger is a great cloak upgrade. You lose a little damage, but it complements all the other watches in its own way. With the C&D it gives much more mobility. C&D spies are often ridiculed in pubs because they spend a lot of time just waiting. The L'Etranger upgrades this a little bit. With the DR it gives a little more unpredictability. Most competent players know that when you feign you will be headed for the closest ammo pack to recharge. The extra cloak time gives more area to get away and you can you to the further away ammo, or at least get further away to recharge. And it just makes the IW even better with cloak for days.
With watches, admittedly C&D is the least useful in pubs, I use it a lot on first point payload on defense.
The DR is the most controversial spy item. People call it a crutch or whatever. I started off only using the DR, then I switched to using the others and shunned it. I have recently been using the DR more in pubs getting back in practice, because there are times when it is useful to use. Part of its effectiveness is the element of surprise. If you have been using another watch for the whole round, and suddenly switch to DR, make a believable feign, then the enemy is A LOT less likely to realize that you are still alive, and you can catch them off guard.
The brings me to my last point about the DR. The 'believable feign' I think that is where most of the DR hate comes from. The fact that some spies don't use the watch as an illusion tool, but just to block damage. They will +forward to the enemy with the DR up until one little thing sets it off and then they try to get behind the lines. Or they hold it up 24/7 to make sure they never take much damage and give themselves time to escape. I wish that Valve would change it so that you can only hold it up for limited time (like 5 seconds or so) and also once you drop it you cannot bring it up right away, maybe a cooldown of 5 seconds or so. That might encourage the proper use of the weapon i.e. actually faking a death.
Finally, sappers...
If you use the Red Tape you should be punched in the gooch.
Zefyre
Gore-Spattered Heavy
I totally forgot to talk about knives!!!
Again, you can't go wrong with stock.
Spycicle- I think its your best sidegrade. It gives you a little more survive-ability against pyros. The kills are QUIETER. (the stats say silent, but there is a little crystal sound that can be heard of the enemy knows the sound) The down-side is losing the knife, but this can just turn into gun time. Fun fact, on my quest of getting my spycicle to Hale's Own it made me better with my gun because I had to use it more. It actually also pairs well with the C&D since you can cloak and wait to get the knife back.
Kunai- Super fun in pubs. It is my second most used knife. Playing with it will help you manage your health better. When you only have 60 health to start with, low health tends to be less scary. It also helps when you know your next stab could give you overheal. This guy is the Kunai master-
Big Earner- I don't like it. The upside is gaining cloak on stabs, but you are already gaining cloak when you pick up the weapon of your victim. I hate giving up the health without the chance to get it back like you do with the Kunai.
YER- I don't use it that much at all. I know there are many people that are successful with it. It works best against less aware/skilled players. You mentioned that you like it because you can get engies and their nests easier. Once you are fast enough at switching weapons you should be able to stab and sap most nests. If the engie is close enough to the gun, you can stab him, switch to sapper and sap it before it can turn to kill you. That is so much easier than having to go stab someone else before going to take out the engie. In Stabby's latest video he plays around with the YER. There is some pub footage as well as some HL pugs and lobbies.
Again, you can't go wrong with stock.
Spycicle- I think its your best sidegrade. It gives you a little more survive-ability against pyros. The kills are QUIETER. (the stats say silent, but there is a little crystal sound that can be heard of the enemy knows the sound) The down-side is losing the knife, but this can just turn into gun time. Fun fact, on my quest of getting my spycicle to Hale's Own it made me better with my gun because I had to use it more. It actually also pairs well with the C&D since you can cloak and wait to get the knife back.
Kunai- Super fun in pubs. It is my second most used knife. Playing with it will help you manage your health better. When you only have 60 health to start with, low health tends to be less scary. It also helps when you know your next stab could give you overheal. This guy is the Kunai master-
Big Earner- I don't like it. The upside is gaining cloak on stabs, but you are already gaining cloak when you pick up the weapon of your victim. I hate giving up the health without the chance to get it back like you do with the Kunai.
YER- I don't use it that much at all. I know there are many people that are successful with it. It works best against less aware/skilled players. You mentioned that you like it because you can get engies and their nests easier. Once you are fast enough at switching weapons you should be able to stab and sap most nests. If the engie is close enough to the gun, you can stab him, switch to sapper and sap it before it can turn to kill you. That is so much easier than having to go stab someone else before going to take out the engie. In Stabby's latest video he plays around with the YER. There is some pub footage as well as some HL pugs and lobbies.
I'm a huge supporter of making it so cloak time is inversely proportional to health when activated.
Use it to tank damage? Good luck with that 1-2sec cloak. Use it to feign death? Free trip to last point/intel.
And also you are welcome. I am by no means an expert at spy, but I wanted to share my thoughts.
Zefyre
Gore-Spattered Heavy
To be fair damage tanking only works if someone is attacking you which is hard when completely cloaked unless a pyro is after you which means you'll have flames anyways and eventually get murdered once your Dead Ringer fails. But yeah +1 for the scaling idea lol
Zefyre
Gore-Spattered Heavy
The thing is, most new players now keep blind shooting after killing a spy to check for dead ringers (specially pyros).
Spies can also be easily spotted if undisguised, you'd have to look for weaker targets to start.
I'd personally recommend sticking to the cloak and dagger, but yanno, it's a matter of personal playing style.
Spies can also be easily spotted if undisguised, you'd have to look for weaker targets to start.
I'd personally recommend sticking to the cloak and dagger, but yanno, it's a matter of personal playing style.
(-TG-)SvenPhantom
Server-Clearing Cynic
Decent videos, a little bit of outdated information(no L'etranger, Diamondback, or Saharan Spy changes).
If you are using the YER, you are always better off using either CnD or Invis watch, YER is required for getting in position for stabs a lot more than other knives. The Dead Ringer sometimes makes your feign path really obvious, and if you do happen to feign behind enemy lines, there's a high possibility they will see you undisguised and just shoot you easily or force you to feign again leaving a cycle constantly. I would say the L'etranger is the best knife for the YER since it is a knife-heavy playstyle when using the YER, allowing more cloak time to obtain a disguise, though running with any other revolver works preferably Revolver since you are more likely going to be use it in a self-defense situation and pressure can work against you if you aren't seasoned with the Amby.