Declined Use of the word "faggot"

CallMeBubblesDahling

CallMeBubblesDahling

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It's in the rules not to use it. Clearly. There is no contextual reason to use it. Using the word faggot in anyway is an insult. Saying "stop playing like a faggot", "U R A FAG" "I hate those faggot engies" or any other use isn't appropriate. It never means a good thing, we all know this. If I substituted any racial slur in place of faggot/fag, it would still have the same force and intent, but would absolutely result in action taken.

If the rule is: "Racism and other insults to gender, religion and sexual orientation." I can't think of a single usage of the word faggot, fag, queer, homo or any other gay slur that would mean anything other than an insult. I've read many forum postings where people are confused and unhappy with the inconsistent enforcement of this rule. You wrote the rules, enforce them. I'm honestly getting tired of seeing how heavily enforced the racism rule is, but there isn't much enforcement of "faggot" even though it is given equal emphasis in the rules.

It's very confusing how such a hard moral stance is taken against racism, but a lesser one is taken against homophobic slurs. They are both generally meant with the same amount of distaste, prejudice and generally douchebaggery. I have thick skin, but it's ironic in a debate about racial slurs, contributors are using the word faggot, insultingly, and without consequence.

I've also noticed that while a hard line is taken against racial slurs, actions taken seem to be gags/mutes, yet people get banned from play for having a party. Eh? You can break one of the most heavily touted rules of the server, but still able to play? That's kind of odd (I'm not being a sarcastic ass, that's genuinely odd to me). The level of offense you take to racial slurs (rightly so) would suggest proper play bans, especially if you want to discourage the use.

It would enhance my own, and others experience on Skial (both website and TF2 servers) if there was a more consistent enforcement of clearly stated rules against insults regarding sexual orientation. It's 2013 eh, grab a thesaurus and sound a bit more intelligent. I'd really just like to see a more consistent enforcement of all rules, players take the time to report them, the least you could do is match our efforts to keep the servers fun.
 
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The thing is the use of "fag" and "faggot" are so commonplace in gaming and internet culture that we would be banning a good 60-70% of players. It's listed there mainly in case someone is completely out-of-line.
 
Well then why have it in the rules appearing so concrete? It gives a false sense of equality in the community if it isn't going to be enforced with the same vigor as your other rules. That's cool.
 
The other rules aren't broken as often so we don't have to ban everyone who joins our servers.

I appreciate your suggestions but we've already had this discussion many times here is just one thread of many as an example: http://www.skial.com/threads/its-ab...r-stance-on-sexual-orientation-insults.27153/

Please use the search function if you think there is something that needs to be addressed you may find that it has been brought up before.
 
I see a lot of racial slur bans and appeals. A lot of them. I've never seen 60-70% of players using faggot (or it's alternates), and I play a couple of hours a day, all on Skial. I'm not sure where your number came from, but my experience has been different than yours. If this discussion has been had previously, that means other people have taken issue with the lax enforcement. Taken from your link above:

"In this thread I would seriously like to talk about a quite obvious thing: that despite having racism and sexual orientation insults included in the same sentence in the rules, we simply do not treat them the same way. Again, if someone, to paraphrase, says "You suck at this game, you black man" it's going to be a ban 90% of the time, while if it's "You suck at this game, you cocksucking faggot" it's going to be nothing 99% of the time. Please decide which side of this fence to land on."

That's a hypocrisy if I ever saw one, especially since it's forbidden in your own rules. If you call someone a cock sucking faggot, that's a pretty aggressive insult and should be enforced. It's an attack and out of line. It's uneven enforcement on rules given the same time and emphasis.

I joined here because of these rules. I don't think it's is acceptable for you to establish rules, post them in a major way, and then only enforce them if you feel like it. You're administrators for the Skial group, you applied to do it and that means enforcing the rules of the servers. If I report that someone is breaking rules, it isn't unreasonable that I expect action to be taken. Especially when the rules broken aren't just Skial rules, but societal ones. Society has deemed that kind of usage of the word faggot as unacceptable, much like the infamous "N-word". I shouldn't have different experiences with admins depending on which one I get. Equal enforcement of the rules shouldn't be something we hope for, it should be something we expect.

I'm also not talking about using the word in general, I'm asking that if someone starts using in an insulting, "bashing" way, that I can expect some action be taken against. Much like if he called me..that n-word. I know you can't stop people from using it at all, teenagers are idiots. I would like to feel equally protected if it get's used in a hateful aggressive way, towards me or other players. If I'm offended by rule breaking language, then it crosses the line. I'm generally alright with most uses in game, but there are times when it does cross the line.
 
You aren't going to bring up any points that haven't been made in the other threads about this.

On top of that we'd have to silence some of our own admins who use the word "fag" on a regular basis so I just don't see it happening...
 
On top of that we'd have to silence some of our own admins who use the word "fag" on a regular basis so I just don't see it happening...[/quote]

If the rules apply to the admins, then they should follow them. They were selected to become admins and I'm guessing part of that was agreeing to follow the rules. It's kind of surprising that you'd just admit your admins break the rules they were selected to enforce. It's surprising to learn that the rules don't really apply to them, that they can pick which ones to follow, because that's pretty much what you're saying. It's disappointing to know that some of the admins find it appropriate to break the rules yet enforce them.

I don't want to fight, honest. I made a suggestion into the community suggestion area, that opens this up for debate. I'm sorry that you don't feel that anything will happen, but you aren't the only and final word on this. I'd like to think that other people would weigh in on this and that what they have to say is taken into consideration. Why have this section if what people have to say isn't considered? At this point I'd request that this remain open for a period of time so that other people of the community can actually weigh in on this. Yeah, this has been addressed before, but times and opinions change, the least you can do is wait and see, no one is hurt by that. Listening to reasonable suggestions from you community, and letting them freely speak is what makes a community.

It's starting to look like admins/mods are held to very loose standards of behavior. How a report/appeal/suggestion is handled is completely dependent on what admin/mod actually handles it. I've had/seen widely differing experiences with different mods/admins which has always confused me. You're all supposed to be held to the same community standards and enforce the same rules, theoretically. Consistency would benefit everyone and your reputation would probably improve. Some mods/admins mention reddit issues and admin/mod abuse issues. Treating me with a bit of respect for having a good reputation and actually contributing to the forums and donating wouldn't kill you. I've never gotten that from you, and it's not something I appreciate. Just something to consider.
 
To quote a recent explanation
That's because the N-word has no alternate meanings. As much as *I* don't like it, "faggot" does have some wiggle room because it's not considered a homophobic slur to all nations and cultures to which Skial serves. However, using it in a homophobic nature will get you banned. It's contextual.
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Kitty is right... I have gay friends who call people "fags" and I'm pretty sure they don't hate themselves.

If someone is bothering you then you can client mute them.

Also, I'm not reading that wall of text.
 
Your explanation fi$shy k!tty does make sense, I will give you that :) . What I'd like to see is what constitutes using it in a homophobic nature, thus getting a ban, and what doesn't. A person from the US saying "stop playing like a fucking faggot dude" or "I hate those faggot engies and spies" is homophobic because faggot is really only used homophobically in the US. Clarification on things can save a lot of time and problems.

I appreciate you actually responding as opposed to just saying "this has been talked about before, we're done". I'm new to the Skial community, cut me a bit of slack eh?

Mittens, you're an admin, you're supposed to read things and consider them. That's part of your responsibility. TL DR isn't really an appropriate response from the responding admin.
 
CallMeBubblesDahling said:
I appreciate you actually responding as opposed to just saying "this has been talked about before, we're done". I'm new to the Skial community, cut me a bit of slack eh?
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A small tip for the future:

Even if I do love people that are well spoken in their language, that does not mean that you should feel it to be required to write an essay to prove your point. You can, without a doubt, shorten down your walls of text and still get the exact points across.
 
Mittens, I realized up top you asked something and would appreciate clarification, so I know what you mean. What constitutes; "It's listed there mainly in case someone is completely out-of-line." I'm agreeing with what you're saying, I just want to be within community guidelines so that I know what constitutes a report here.

Also, I'm sorry for being testy on this issue. I just had back surgery stemming from a gay bashing. So the pain from the back stuff combined with the issues from the assault have left me a bit touchy on this kind of thing. Generally I'm a funny and enjoyable guy, just not as much temporarily. I had a blast in Turbine LA earlier, so I have been having a positive experience here, just so ya know.

I agree moose, my essays aren't the best way to get my point across here haha. Just a bit out of it is all. I'll keep that in mind for the future though, thanks.
 
CallMeBubblesDahling said:
I appreciate you actually responding as opposed to just saying "this has been talked about before, we're done". I'm new to the Skial community, cut me a bit of slack eh?

Mittens, you're an admin, you're supposed to read things and consider them. That's part of your responsibility. TL DR isn't really an appropriate response from the responding admin.
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You can read the thread I linked you to and use the search function as I suggested. Read all the arguments from both sides that have already been made.
 
No offense Mittens, but if you as a responding admin won't read my one post, what makes you think I should go do that much reading? You didn't have to respond to this.
 
couldn't they just argue that they ment it as it's real definition, "A bundle of sticks"
and also a "fag" is a cigarette
where as using the "N" word has no real alternate meaning, any forum of it.
 
I acknowledge that SansarDash, I've lived in both Canada and the UK, but think about the context of it's usage. If a player says "stop playing like a fucking faggot" or something similar, what are they meaning? A cigarette, unlikely. A bundle of sticks? Even less likely. They mean it as a gay guy. Especially if they're from the US or Western Europe. When you call someone a faggot that's what you mean. If you type "I'll be right back, I'm going to go have a fag", you mean a cigarette. Usage of the word faggot, just faggot, in a server towards another person, they're never going to mean a cigarette or a bundle of sticks tied up with string to be used a fuel for a fire, are they?
 
Does an admin just want to tell me where the line is drawn to break this rule? It is a rule after all. That's a simple question that someone should be able to answer.
 
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