Warning to be given by admins before temporary bans
- Thread starter Rvsz
- Start date
Greg the ad money goes toward paying for the servers that you play on. Believe it or not they aren't free to run. And despite this suggestion admins give out plenty of warnings. I kick a lot of people for reason "no racism" and 9 times out of 10 they reconnect to the server. If they say something racist they get banned and now we have put another idiot on our list, if they don't say anything racist (usually I don't want them to which is why I kicked instead of banned) then the warning served it's purpose.
As I already pointed out a 1 day is ban is in itself a warning. So is being silenced or kicked. And if you bothered to read the post you marked dumb you would realize that Skial has a great system for dealing with rule breakers whereas other communities are run horribly and by admins who really do abuse their powers. We also only have 10 rules most of which are no brainers like "no hacking", "no exploiting" and "no admin impersonation." The only rules people don't seem to get the is no griefing and no spamming. We don't see many racism appeals because it's pretty obvious that being racist can get you banned. If people have trouble following the very simple short list of rules that we have to begin with then I don't feel the least bit sorry when they are kicked or banned. On top of this I dare you to find a concrete list of rules for Lotusclan servers... you can't. Most other servers not only have no set rules (just admins banning people they don't like) but the ones that do don't even enforce their own rules (just admins banning people they don't like).
I doubt there would be a warning for hacking, because that is just stupid.
"Kid, turn off your crit hacks, or I'll ban you."
-Said after the person has already destroyed everyone's fun for half an hour or more.
I don't know about this, sure maybe if the person killed someone through the gate once, or did something that constituted as griefing, but not for everything. If someone was being racist, or they were teletrapping others, etc. This could work sometimes, but not all of the time, in which case banning would be a better choice.
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Warning someone should be encouraged but never actually enforced as a rule. Considering it can take several months for Bott to make a call if they're right for admin or not, I trust their discretion. It isn't a bad idea in concept but opens up a new can of worms with "did this person get a warning that racism is against the rules" before getting a 1-3 day ban which I really doubt anyone wants to sort through considering how lenient the ban length is.
My warning consists of using either the /msay or /csay command so I know the person can read it, and ask them why they broke a rule. If they don't respond within 3-4 minutes or if they leave, then I give them the one day ban. If they provide a reason and apologize, I might consider not banning them. I know no-one wants to be banned, so I give them a small chance to avoid it. Most take it for granted and give me some less-than-intelligent answers.
I will always give a warning, unless it is a cheater or thief or any other really unsavioury behaviour that makes the user a sub human.
Things like glitching, griefing, you know; things where people are just being dicks, get a warning.
Racism/personal harrassment is subject to how much I believe the person intended offense. someone who says "sup mah nigga" aint gunna get a ban straight of the bat from me, but he who says "fuck you chinky slant eyed cunt, go eat another dog" basicaly comes under sub human (line 1).
As for putting a kid in a time out chair, as a mother you would know that never happens without a warning or else your child doesn't know why it is being repremanded. Jeez, this could go into teh whole 'good parenting' and 'nature versus nurture' debate if I'm not careful, but yeah its a real grey area, and can only be left to admins (mothers) discretion.
Things like glitching, griefing, you know; things where people are just being dicks, get a warning.
Racism/personal harrassment is subject to how much I believe the person intended offense. someone who says "sup mah nigga" aint gunna get a ban straight of the bat from me, but he who says "fuck you chinky slant eyed cunt, go eat another dog" basicaly comes under sub human (line 1).
You're mostly right, it is difficult to track warnings, maybe a 1 minute ban can act as a warning, its a shame that kicks arent recorded as this would be my ideal solution.
As for putting a kid in a time out chair, as a mother you would know that never happens without a warning or else your child doesn't know why it is being repremanded. Jeez, this could go into teh whole 'good parenting' and 'nature versus nurture' debate if I'm not careful, but yeah its a real grey area, and can only be left to admins (mothers) discretion.
The admin's responsibility is to keep order in the server. It's not their responsibility to make sure everyone read the rules.
Besides, Skial has already got very liberal rules, if you break the rules it's most likely because you said racist remarks or hacked so you're most likely a fucking douchebag nobody wants on the server anyway.
Besides, Skial has already got very liberal rules, if you break the rules it's most likely because you said racist remarks or hacked so you're most likely a fucking douchebag nobody wants on the server anyway.
Haven't played in a skial server or even used the forums in a while, however I thought I'd add my two cents to this debate..
I'm all for bans being a last resort, but should one really require a warning with how laid back Skial rules are? Lets break it down to the simplest of terms for sake of argument.
No Hacking
No Racism
No Griefing
No Exploiting
That's pretty much it. This is the only server group where you can talk shit on the admins and not receive a ban instantly. Some do warn, but at the end of the day should one have to be warned not to cheat, not to be a bigot, and not to be a nuisance? These rules are common sense enough that someone shouldn't have to be familiar with the rules to not be a douche.
I'm all for bans being a last resort, but should one really require a warning with how laid back Skial rules are? Lets break it down to the simplest of terms for sake of argument.
No Hacking
No Racism
No Griefing
No Exploiting
That's pretty much it. This is the only server group where you can talk shit on the admins and not receive a ban instantly. Some do warn, but at the end of the day should one have to be warned not to cheat, not to be a bigot, and not to be a nuisance? These rules are common sense enough that someone shouldn't have to be familiar with the rules to not be a douche.
SgtGiraffe
Legendary Skial King
What about teh guy who gets banned for burning through gates at start up? happens on all teh other servers he plays on, never seen anyone banned for it, thinks its part of the game. warning or not?
lets say we give him a warning "hey guy, thats not allowed on skial servers" - next time he sees someone do it, he regurgitates the warning "hey guy that's not allowed on skial servers"
now lets say we ban him, for a day with no warning.. "fuck you skial your admin suck" me and my 5 friends will go play somewhere else.
Now tell me which dictates common sense.
I can't argue that there is logic there. That said perhaps a warning requirement for something like that wouldn't be unreasonable. However, about 99% of the time I don't think a warning really should be required because a large majority of the time it's something common sense they got banned for.
Tbh, if I think somebody is purposely griefing, and lets face it after a while of playtime, you can just tell, I will remove them from the server, and tbh again, my priority is the 31 people who want to have a good time, not the one who is the disruptor, because at the end of the day "you dont care what teh players think, noone cares what you think"
guess I just have a big heart and will always try to give people benefit of the doubt, always look for the good in people (some its just not there). and I believe in rules, but I also believe that every rule should be questioned, and noone should follow them blindly.
Before I make some of my reports I give them a warning informing them that they are in violation of skial server rules and all they seem to do with an exemption of one guy is call you a pussy or insult your KD ratio and then they tell me they are not afraid of an admin. The best thing ever is when an admin comes in or bans them and then the people who were with him think twice about doing it again.
Warnings or not, it should be mandatory that admins attempt to figure out what is going on in a given situation before taking action. As admins, you're not mind readers, and it is very easy to jump to conclusions.
For example, a friend of mine who streams on twitch.tv (=GP= Guildy / STEAM_0:0:27669218) recently got temp banned while playing on a skial server by an admin named "himym" for voteban abuse. This admin made no attempt to figure out what was going on, nor did they submit a demo with the ban. On Guildy's twitch vod, it is clear that, while his perception might be a bit flawed, he made the voteban in good faith because of a suspicious string of crits coming from the player he attempted to voteban. Had the admin even scratched the surface of why the vote was made, they would have found out it was not abuse in an instant.
Evidence: twitch tv guildybram/b/358461588?t=12m02s
Crits on the heavy start here. Voteban is at 13:20. Talking about why he's suspicious at 14:30. More crits at 17:25. More crits at 18:19, then a SECOND string right after the first. Banned at 19:20 and puzzled as to why.
Say what you want about his ability (or lack thereof) in identifying hackers, it's absolutely clear he 1. was using the voteban feature in good faith and 2. the voteban served its purpose, he lodged it, people voted it down, no harm done 3. no admin made any attempt to converse with him as to why he lodged the voteban, instead deciding to instantly ban without question.
I personally am not related to this as I just happened to swing by here to fulfill my own curiosity as to why he was banned, but that's just an example of what admin systems are not intended to do.
For example, a friend of mine who streams on twitch.tv (=GP= Guildy / STEAM_0:0:27669218) recently got temp banned while playing on a skial server by an admin named "himym" for voteban abuse. This admin made no attempt to figure out what was going on, nor did they submit a demo with the ban. On Guildy's twitch vod, it is clear that, while his perception might be a bit flawed, he made the voteban in good faith because of a suspicious string of crits coming from the player he attempted to voteban. Had the admin even scratched the surface of why the vote was made, they would have found out it was not abuse in an instant.
Evidence: twitch tv guildybram/b/358461588?t=12m02s
Crits on the heavy start here. Voteban is at 13:20. Talking about why he's suspicious at 14:30. More crits at 17:25. More crits at 18:19, then a SECOND string right after the first. Banned at 19:20 and puzzled as to why.
Say what you want about his ability (or lack thereof) in identifying hackers, it's absolutely clear he 1. was using the voteban feature in good faith and 2. the voteban served its purpose, he lodged it, people voted it down, no harm done 3. no admin made any attempt to converse with him as to why he lodged the voteban, instead deciding to instantly ban without question.
I personally am not related to this as I just happened to swing by here to fulfill my own curiosity as to why he was banned, but that's just an example of what admin systems are not intended to do.
I followed him for a while and I never saw anyone hacking or anyone complaining about it.
If your friend really was collecting evidence he could have made a ban appeal and i would have looked into it.
I'm not a monster who is happy to ban people as a way to spend my time.
Most of the time it's just not always like you or me see it. But if your friend doesn't contact me, how could I know?
What i saw was that he was pulling of some random votes.
Also, if you have some good evidence on someone hacking , I don't see the point of banning him for 30 mins while it's way more easier to get on the forums or contact an admin.
First of all, I think your friend could start a thread here if it occurs so they can start figuring out what went wrong. But voteban abuse is when the attempt to ban a person is not on it's place (so an admin wouldn't have banned that person either), therefor you are abusing the menu.
It does happen they make a mistake because they are only human beings and if you start a thread here they are happy to help. But voteban abuse speaks often for itselfs, if it was needed to ban or not. No much research needed for that, I think. *Note, I can be wrong, don't shoot me!
Most sports which have an umpire, or referee, have exactly the same problems, fortunately for us we have an appeals system, anywhere else all you would hear is "the ref's decision is final".
The vast majority of our reports or appeals are answered within a few minutes of being made, which means anyone who is innocent and caught up in the whole 'misjustice' thing can get it sorted within an hour tops.
Therefore it becomes more an inconvenience than a sentence, and all we can do is rectify and apologise.
I don't want to comment on individual cases, as I could be here all day, suffice to say we (the admin) only want to see our servers stay fun and competitive, and I agree, we do make mistakes, like every other human on this planet, but we listen to what people have to say, and we learn from those mistakes, that's how the system improves over time. yeah the system isn't perfect, but we want it to be, just as much as every player does.
The vast majority of our reports or appeals are answered within a few minutes of being made, which means anyone who is innocent and caught up in the whole 'misjustice' thing can get it sorted within an hour tops.
Therefore it becomes more an inconvenience than a sentence, and all we can do is rectify and apologise.
I don't want to comment on individual cases, as I could be here all day, suffice to say we (the admin) only want to see our servers stay fun and competitive, and I agree, we do make mistakes, like every other human on this planet, but we listen to what people have to say, and we learn from those mistakes, that's how the system improves over time. yeah the system isn't perfect, but we want it to be, just as much as every player does.
Oh yea, I'm not trying to blast you for doing what you figured needed to be done, however, I think the best course of action would have been to say straight out "Hi Guildy, I noticed you used the voteban function, why did you do this?" and it would have been clear that he wasn't doing it to be a dick. It takes just as long to type that sentence out as it does to ban a steamID anyhow, right? You would have been all clear to ban him then if he gave you a snide response or otherwise acted immature about it.
I don't think he's even aware that there's an appeals function, but I'll pass it onto him if he's perma-d and he can handle his own appeal.