Ijikaru

Gore-Spattered Heavy
Can we stop adding VSH2 until there's no stomp plugin, until we can't stop the hale musics, until !halehelp isn't working, until medics doesn't get some overheal when they use the uber, where the hell is the rtv plugin too lmao ???

I mean @Bottiger you could check if the gamemode was ok before you added it on the servers. Or at least make a VSH2 beta post where we can report every single issues.
 

Ijikaru

Gore-Spattered Heavy
Almost forgot about some trash changes like giving back the demoknight shield after 1 minute 30
 

uppe-r

Rage-Inducing Forum Troll
Contributor
you CANT double jetpack with pyro (jetpack while in the air)

I talked to Nergal bout this already... let's see what he says
 

True Darkian

Wicked Nasty Engineer
Contributor
My opinions of VSH2 today:
Positive notes are in green.
Negative notes are in red.

Scout:

  • The Back Scatter now deals crits when it would normally mini crit, This makes the Back Scatter finally a good weapon to use in VSH.
  • The Soda Popper is allowed again and works like in vanilla, I don't see any problems with it since Valve changed the way to gain Hype with damage instead of running.
  • The Baby Face Blaster was nerfed to a 4 shell capacity, But also received a 25% less accurate nerf and disables double jump, This killed BFB users, It sure needed a nerf, but this one was too much.
Soldier:
  • The Mantreads now stop fall damage, making rocket jumping a little easier, Nobody likes fall damage anyway.
  • The Liberty Launcher now has a +25% explosion radius buff, I don't know why? But sure.
  • The temporary movement stun when you directly hit a rocket on the hale is removed, It rewarded good aim with rockets and I don't see why it's removed.
Pyro:
  • The Thermal Thruster's mid-air 2nd charge has been removed, There was no problems with that.
Demoman:
  • The Loose Cannon, which already was a pain to deal with as hale, has been buffed even more for people who are extremely good at it, such as @klurifax , They can now loose cannon jumps for 50% less damage than before, This one needs to be reverted.
  • Shields apparently now recharge after a while, I don't know how long... 30 seconds? 1 minute? In the hands of good demo's, it takes a while to hit them once, now that the shield is gone, they will stay away from you more until they regain it, allowing to survive yet another hit while they also harvested 4 heads from you to survive yet another hit incase their shields do not recharge in time, This is very hard to deal with for the hale.
Heavy:
  • The G.R.U and Bread Bite no longer makes you lose health per second, instead you take twice the amount of damage from a hale punch while holding it, This is a good change because the health degeneration was something that was annoying, but you still have to be careful with hales that can now one hit you if you hold this.
  • The hale can now steal thrown food items to prevent them to be given to other RED's, However, It was confusing first because it looked like the hale gained health from this, but the plugin already removes that gained health automatically, so there's no problem with this.
  • Miniguns now deal 15% extra damage while being healed by a medic, This means that all heavies will always deal 15% more damage because there's almost always a medic with them, I don't see the point of this because Heavy + Medic combinations can already lead to huge damage, especially when you trap the hale in a room.
Engineer:
  • The Frontier Justice got an interesting buff, It already was kind of a good shotgun to use in VSH, but it was very underused, now it's slightly more better to use, It already gave you crits when your sentry aimed at the hale, but now it gives you up to 3 Revenge Crits after your sentry shot the hale, which stays with you at all times until you use them.
  • All wrenches now give +25 Max health, I have no problem with this change, It makes sentry jumping slightly less deadly.
  • The Gunslinger now gives +55 Max health, It still won't let you survive 1 hale hit though, but this is a positive change.
  • All primaries now minicrit the hale when he's launched in the air by explosions, This rewards skilled Engineers with a small damage boost if Demo's and Soldiers love blasting the hale in the air with explosions.
Medic:
  • Ubering yourself won't overheal yourself anymore, This was not a fun thing for hales, A lonely medic could just overheal himself to the point where he can survive 1 hit and then use the crossbow or ubersaw to deal damage + gain more uber, and once the hale got close or the medic got hit, they brought their medigun back out and heal that overheal up again.
  • Apparently ubercharge builds faster now with healing? I don't know what to say with that, All I know is, medics are slightly easier to deal with now as hale. (Thank god)
Sniper:
  • The Shooting Star finally works like the Machina in VSH now.
  • Other than that, I haven't played sniper yet in VSH2, So I don't know much what changed, I didn't had problems dealing with other snipers either.
Spy:
  • The Spy had a nailgun (Acted like an Syringe Gun) replacing the sapper at first, People wondered why though since the Spy already is a strong class for VSH, This has been replaced by a throwable Kunai which acts exactly the same as the Flying Guillotine, except it has no bleeding damage (I think), I find this a better replacement of the sapper than the Nailgun.
  • Uber on backstab has been removed, Thank god, It still rewards a speed boost though similar to the Big Earner, I'm fine with that.
General:
  • All hales now take 30% less knockback instead of just the HHH Jr. and Saxton Hale.
  • Easter Bunny's bombs when he rages actually look like easter eggs now.
  • HHH Jr. now has a visible climb limit counter up to 10 until he has to touch the ground again to put it back at 0, This is nice to know how many climbs you have left, You couldn't see that in VSH1.
  • The HHH Jr. apparently gets one hit when hit by the train in Skyhigh, regardless of how much health he has.
  • When the last RED alive is a scout, the hale's rage meter goes up at a very fast rate on it's own, He can litteraly use rage every 15 seconds, or faster if the Scout is actively dealing damage.
  • I heard from people that hales no longer take damage from spikes in Egyptyspot in VSH2.
 
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Ijikaru

Gore-Spattered Heavy
My opinions of VSH2 today:
Positive notes are in green.
Negative notes are in red.

Scout:


  • The Back Scatter now deals crits when it would normally mini crit, This makes the Back Scatter finally a good weapon to use in VSH.
    The Soda Popper is allowed again and works like in vanilla, I don't see any problems with it since Valve changed the way to gain Hype with damage instead of running.
    The Baby Face Blaster was nerfed to a 4 shell capacity, But also received a 25% less accurate nerf and disables double jump, This killed BFB users, It sure needed a nerf, but this one was too much.
Soldier:

  • The Mantreads now stop fall damage, making rocket jumping a little easier, Nobody likes fall damage anyway.
    The Liberty Launcher now has a +25% explosion radius buff, I don't know why? But sure.
    The temporary movement stun when you directly hit a rocket on the hale is removed, It rewarded good aim with rockets and I don't see why it's removed.
Pyro:

  • The Thermal Thruster's mid-air 2nd charge has been removed, There was no problems with that.
Demoman:

  • The Loose Cannon, which already was a pain to deal with as hale, has been buffed even more for people who are extremely good at it, such as @klurifax , They can now loose cannon jumps for 50% less damage than before, This one needs to be reverted.
    Shields apparently now recharge after a while, I don't know how long... 30 seconds? 1 minute? In the hands of good demo's, it takes a while to hit them once, now that the shield is gone, they will stay away from you more until they regain it, allowing to survive yet another hit while they also harvested 4 heads from you to survive yet another hit incase their shields do not recharge in time, This is very hard to deal with for the hale.
Heavy:

  • The G.R.U and Bread Bite no longer makes you lose health per second, instead you take twice the amount of damage from a hale punch while holding it, This is a good change because the health degeneration was something that was annoying, but you still have to be careful with hales that can now one hit you if you hold this.
    The hale can now steal thrown food items to prevent them to be given to other RED's, However, It was confusing first because it looked like the hale gained health from this, but the plugin already removes that gained health automatically, so there's no problem with this.
    Miniguns now deal 15% extra damage while being healed by a medic, This means that all heavies will always deal 15% more damage because there's almost always a medic with them, I don't see the point of this because Heavy + Medic combinations can already lead to huge damage, especially when you trap the hale in a room.
Engineer:

  • The Frontier Justice got an interesting buff, It already was kind of a good shotgun to use in VSH, but it was very underused, now it's slightly more better to use, It already gave you crits when your sentry aimed at the hale, but now it gives you up to 3 Revenge Crits after your sentry shot the hale, which stays with you at all times until you use them.
    All wrenches now give +25 Max health, I have no problem with this change, It makes sentry jumping slightly less deadly.
    The Gunslinger now gives +55 Max health, It still won't let you survive 1 hale hit though, but this is a positive change.
    All primaries now minicrit the hale when he's launched in the air by explosions, This rewards skilled Engineers with a small damage boost if Demo's and Soldiers love blasting the hale in the air with explosions.
Medic:

  • Ubering yourself won't overheal yourself anymore, This was not a fun thing for hales, A lonely medic could just overheal himself to the point where he can survive 1 hit and then use the crossbow or ubersaw to deal damage + gain more uber, and once the hale got close or the medic got hit, they brought their medigun back out and heal that overheal up again.
    Apparently ubercharge builds faster now with healing? I don't know what to say with that, All I know is, medics are slightly easier to deal with now as hale. (Thank god)
Sniper:

  • The Shooting Star finally works like the Machina in VSH now.
    Other than that, I haven't played sniper yet in VSH2, So I don't know much what changed, I didn't had problems dealing with other snipers either.
Spy:

  • The Spy had a nailgun (Acted like an Syringe Gun) replacing the sapper at first, People wondered why though since the Spy already is a strong class for VSH, This has been replaced by a throwable Kunai which acts exactly the same as the Flying Guillotine, except it has no bleeding damage (I think), I find this a better replacement of the sapper than the Nailgun.
    Uber on backstab has been removed, Thank god, It still rewards a speed boost though similar to the Big Earner, I'm fine with that.
General:

  • All hales now take 30% less knockback instead of just the HHH Jr. and Saxton Hale.
    Easter Bunny's bombs when he rages actually look like easter eggs now.
    HHH Jr. now has a visible climb limit counter up to 10 until he has to touch the ground again to put it back at 0, This is nice to know how many climbs you have left, You couldn't see that in VSH1.
    The HHH Jr. apparently gets one hit when hit by the train in Skyhigh, regardless of how much health he has.
    When the last RED alive is a scout, the hale's rage meter goes up at a very fast rate on it's own, He can litteraly use rage every 15 seconds, or faster if the Scout is actively dealing damage.
    I heard from people that hales no longer take damage from spikes in Egyptyspot in VSH2.

It's just easier to go back on VSH 1.5 and make some balance changes on it just put the server in a situation when it's easier to duo medic ect ect and there's 2 many changes 2 fast.
 

jake.

Somewhat Threatening Sniper
Almost forgot about some trash changes like giving back the demoknight shield after 1 minute 30

demo shield comes back when you do a certain amount of damage. it's not time based.

I like the VSH2 update to skial. From an admin standpoint it gives them flexibility to make changes to stats. A general note about changes is there will always be people who won't like it. I would take anecdotal evidence very lightly and put more weight on data (i.e. average number of players).

Overall skial vsh2 is good. Thanks Nergal, Bottiger, and whoever else were involved.
 

Ijikaru

Gore-Spattered Heavy
demo shield comes back when you do a certain amount of damage. it's not time based.

I like the VSH2 update to skial. From an admin standpoint it gives them flexibility to make changes to stats. A general note about changes is there will always be people who won't like it. I would take anecdotal evidence very lightly and put more weight on data (i.e. average number of players).

Overall skial vsh2 is good. Thanks Nergal, Bottiger, and whoever else were involved.

Overall it's totaly stupid to put a plugin without making a post to say that it's a beta and maybe it can changes in the future. "The admin point" doesn't even matter cause some other admins weren't happy about it. It's just a shame to keep adding VSH2 and remove it since 2018 without telling anyone about it, without asking about the major changes to the community no one said that VSH2 was bad it's just not balanced AT ALL on some point.

A general note about changes is there will always be people who won't like it. I would take anecdotal evidence very lightly and put more weight on data (i.e. average number of players).

That's not how you put major changes like this on a server, we don't have anywhere to complain about some changes,we don't have anywhere to complain about some bugs, I won't even talk about the fact that I had to argue for 1 month to have some nerfs on the pyros to have VSH2 coming after it.
 

Bottiger

Administrator
Overall it's totaly stupid to put a plugin without making a post to say that it's a beta and maybe it can changes in the future. "The admin point" doesn't even matter cause some other admins weren't happy about it. It's just a shame to keep adding VSH2 and remove it since 2018 without telling anyone about it, without asking about the major changes to the community no one said that VSH2 was bad it's just not balanced AT ALL on some point.



That's not how you put major changes like this on a server, we don't have anywhere to complain about some changes,we don't have anywhere to complain about some bugs, I won't even talk about the fact that I had to argue for 1 month to have some nerfs on the pyros to have VSH2 coming after it.

I was told by Nergal that he made it almost the same as VSH1 so I didn't feel a need to ask everyone if they wanted VSH2. Any other small differences could have been fixed.

Anyway 90% of the people here don't visit the forums unless they have something to complain about, so making a thread before I made the change wouldn't have done anything. Anyone is free to make a thread here for any complaints anyway.

Can we stop adding VSH2 until there's no stomp plugin, until we can't stop the hale musics, until !halehelp isn't working, until medics doesn't get some overheal when they use the uber, where the hell is the rtv plugin too lmao ???

There is a stomp plugin, halemusic is in vsh2. sm_halehelp is also in vsh2 and nothing has changed with rtv. Maybe you were on military area which doesn't have rtv? Not sure why you think those aren't working, if they weren't, I am sure someone else would have complained about it by now.
 

Ijikaru

Gore-Spattered Heavy
I was told by Nergal that he made it almost the same as VSH1 so I didn't feel a need to ask everyone if they wanted VSH2. Any other small differences could have been fixed.

Anyway 90% of the people here don't visit the forums unless they have something to complain about, so making a thread before I made the change wouldn't have done anything. Anyone is free to make a thread here for any complaints anyway.



There is a stomp plugin, halemusic is in vsh2. sm_halehelp is also in vsh2 and nothing has changed with rtv. Maybe you were on military area which doesn't have rtv? Not sure why you think those aren't working, if they weren't, I am sure someone else would have complained about it by now.

That's not small differences when you are making changes on every single class, it changes everything about the gameplays and I don't that's not because 90% of the players don't go on the forum that we have to eat a new update, that we have to figure out and check every single changes ect ect.

Anyway after talking with alot of people who were not happy about it if we have a post where we can give feedbacks about it as True Darkian did in this post you can decline this post.
 

Bottiger

Administrator
That's not small differences when you are making changes on every single class, it changes everything about the gameplays and I don't that's not because 90% of the players don't go on the forum that we have to eat a new update, that we have to figure out and check every single changes ect ect.

Anyway after talking with alot of people who were not happy about it if we have a post where we can give feedbacks about it as True Darkian did in this post you can decline this post.

Nergal told me he made it like vsh1. You can tell people to post it here if you want. Though the wording of this thread is not helpful and probably caused Nergal to leave our Discord.
 

Ijikaru

Gore-Spattered Heavy
Nergal told me he made it like vsh1. You can tell people to post it here if you want. Though the wording of this thread is not helpful and probably caused Nergal to leave our Discord.
I really insist on the fact that you have to make a post.
 

zIP

Notably Dangerous Demo-Knight
@Bottiger Just out of curiousity, has VSH2 even been playtested before being implemented? The first time it was implemented, it was filled with bugs like demoman not getting grenade crits or mantreads not reducing fall damage. The 'choose hale' feature reportedly didn't even work. I see literally no reason not to announce the change before or during implementation, and log all the changes.
 

Brimp

Somewhat Threatening Sniper
i'd say no to the idea of the no stomp plugin on vsh, its very unfun when you stomp a person that should be dead but they dont die and you get a bunch of knockback from their teammates, and sometimes hitting doesnt help when they're overhealed