Declined vsh_toys - Potential Sniper Nerf

[Raccoon99]

Hey. During the "bathroom" phase of the map Snipers can have complete immunity to Hale if they get on the top of the shower door. With 5 or 6 of them on the same spot it's game over for Hale due to the fact that the point opens at 3 people left AND the fact that Hale can't reach them with his Super Jump*! Can we either fix/remove the map or nerf Sniper's Spiderman ability?

*While hale can't get up there the Easter Bunny can.

 

[Meowcenary]

You can get up there as any hale. It's extremely easy, you go to the shower room, take the tunnel up to one of the platforms and you only need to jump 10 feet to get on the shower door

 

[mike-kirby]

Hey. During the "bathroom" phase of the map Snipers can have complete immunity to Hale if they get on the top of the shower door. With 5 or 6 of them on the same spot it's game over for Hale due to the fact that the point opens at 3 people left AND the fact that Hale can't reach them with his Super Jump*! Can we either fix/remove the map or nerf Sniper's Spiderman ability?

*While hale can't get up there the Easter Bunny can.

+1 for both fixing the map and sniper nerf.
Change the sniper back to when his damage output got heavily influenced by whether he has the bushwaka equipped or not. And change the bushwaka so it's only actual use is for wallclimbing. I've died a few times just because the bushwaka hit didn't register as a wall hit.

 

[Meowcenary]

+1 for both fixing the map and sniper nerf.
Change the sniper back to when his damage output got heavily influenced by whether he has the bushwaka equipped or not. And change the bushwaka so it's only actual use is for wallclimbing. I've died a few times just because the bushwaka hit didn't register as a wall hit.

Snipers aren't OP. You just need to learn to play. I don't mean to sound like an ass but its a truth so many players need to understand.

Snipers can do heavy damage over time if you ignore them and keep running around in the open. Engineers can deal heavy damage too if you don't prioritize them and their sentires. Spies can backstab you and take massive chunks of your health away in a instant if you don't watch your back. Market gardener soldiers will also deal heavy damage if you keep running in predictable paths. Medics will save a shit ton of people and make your life a living hell if you don't prioritize killing them. Pyros can also be a huge fucking pain by airblast spamming.

Basic tactic and common sense GREATLY counters all those issues, but some players don't exercise common sense or use basic tactic. They instead get their asses handed to them by the above players because they didn't prioritize or account for them so they start crying "OP! plz nerf!"

I'm by no means a amazing hale, but I've only died once in the past two months of playing VSH because I know to target heavy hitters first and I don't run around in the open ignoring snipers or letting engineer sentries blast me for half the round

 

[Dolan Trump]

I don't consider Sniper broken. Sure he can snipe from high places, but it costs health, is easy to bungle and basically requires the Cozy Camper, removing his ability to lower the boss's rage (Jarate) and high damage from a crit-boosted SMG. It does provide a nerfed SMG that inflicts brief bleeding, but it's a pittance compared to the Rifle or even melee.

Believe it or not, Hale actually does take some skill. Probably not as much as playing Demo in 6v6 Platinum, but it does require some skill to get the super-jumps right (skilled Hales can do it in mid-air and frequently), get trick-hits and knowing to abuse hitboxes, as well as knowing WHEN to use rage rather then WHETHER and how to position yourself to get the most out of it. Too many new players just charge right in holding W+M1 down thinking they can just dominate, only to fall a minute later with only 3-4 kills.

Now, I did suggest a nerf on rats_office related to the shelves, but that was from a legitimate observation that that spot is all but impossible for anyone playing as Hale to get into and requires too little skill from the Engineer to pull of in comparison.

 

[mike-kirby]

Snipers aren't OP. You just need to learn to play. I don't mean to sound like an ass but its a truth so many players need to understand.

Snipers can do heavy damage over time if you ignore them and keep running around in the open. Engineers can deal heavy damage too if you don't prioritize them and their sentires. Spies can backstab you and take massive chunks of your health away in a instant if you don't watch your back. Market gardener soldiers will also deal heavy damage if you keep running in predictable paths. Medics will save a shit ton of people and make your life a living hell if you don't prioritize killing them. Pyros can also be a huge fucking pain by airblast spamming.

Basic tactic and common sense GREATLY counters all those issues, but some players don't exercise common sense or use basic tactic. They instead get their asses handed to them by the above players because they didn't prioritize or account for them so they start crying "OP! plz nerf!"

I'm by no means a amazing hale, but I've only died once in the past two months of playing VSH because I know to target heavy hitters first and I don't run around in the open ignoring snipers or letting engineer sentries blast me for half the round

Of course you can take out those classes first, but this means you're taking out every class (except scout because goomba's are useless now). That doesn't change much now. You can try to counter the classes by moving in an odd way, but classes also counter that. Snipers counter jumping hales, demoknights counter zigzagging hales ... Eventually you can't counter everyone
If sniper got nerfed so he wouldn't be able to place himself in a tough to reach spot while still deal massive damage, snipers counter would be weakened so he needs to position himself better. He could either be a heavy hitter or a jump counter. (of course can still remove hales in-air momentum while staying on the ground but it would be a lot harder).
In my eyes is high damage output+low skill requirements+low risk OP. Sniper doesn't require that much skill and when placed in a proper area can deal amazing damage while being low risk. Changing the bushwaka means that he'd either have low skill+low risk but low damage output or high damage output+low skill but high risk.

I don't consider Sniper broken. Sure he can snipe from high places, but it costs health, is easy to bungle and basically requires the Cozy Camper, removing his ability to lower the boss's rage (Jarate) and high damage from a crit-boosted SMG. It does provide a nerfed SMG that inflicts brief bleeding, but it's a pittance compared to the Rifle or even melee.

As for this, the cozy camper is definitely not necessary. To get up high would cost a lot of health, but assuming you found a good spot, you won't get down. The cozy camper is from what I know only used for escaping, since your health regains too slow for you to bushwaka jump another time in the same 'jump session'.

Like a year ago when I still had a proper pc I had some minor annoyance with snipers since their always on extremely hard to reach spots. And damn it I used to be a great hale.

 

[Defibyoulater]

You can access it, but I feel terrible watching new hales get dommed trying to get up there.

 

[Meowcenary]

Of course you can take out those classes first, but this means you're taking out every class (except scout because goomba's are useless now). That doesn't change much now. You can try to counter the classes by moving in an odd way, but classes also counter that. Snipers counter jumping hales, demoknights counter zigzagging hales ... Eventually you can't counter everyone
If sniper got nerfed so he wouldn't be able to place himself in a tough to reach spot while still deal massive damage, snipers counter would be weakened so he needs to position himself better. He could either be a heavy hitter or a jump counter. (of course can still remove hales in-air momentum while staying on the ground but it would be a lot harder).
In my eyes is high damage output+low skill requirements+low risk OP. Sniper doesn't require that much skill and when placed in a proper area can deal amazing damage while being low risk. Changing the bushwaka means that he'd either have low skill+low risk but low damage output or high damage output+low skill but high risk.

As for this, the cozy camper is definitely not necessary. To get up high would cost a lot of health, but assuming you found a good spot, you won't get down. The cozy camper is from what I know only used for escaping, since your health regains too slow for you to bushwaka jump another time in the same 'jump session'.

Like a year ago when I still had a proper pc I had some minor annoyance with snipers since their always on extremely hard to reach spots. And damn it I used to be a great hale.

I'm not going to try to argue this further since we already had a entire suggestion surrounding sniper nerfing before and nothing came from it. I'm just going to leave at this: I'm a terrible hale but I very rarely lose because I don't let heavy hitting classes like snipers live throughout the majority of the round allowing them to eat away at my health. It's the same concept as why you don't leave your back unguarded to spies.

If I can be a shitty hale and still not have issues with snipers you're doing something very wrong if you have trouble with them.

 

[mike-kirby]

It's the same concept as why you don't leave your back unguarded to spies.

Alright, but this is quite different. All you have to do here is turn around. When it comes to sniper you need to ignore every damage you're receiving and focus on attacking the sniper. Spies can't stop you from turning, sniper can remove all the momentum you've gained. Only thing you can do to kill a good sniper on a difficult spot is to have luck.