[VSH] Why have Skial servers not updated to VSH v2.0+?

Discussion in 'Team Fortress 2' started by Wheyloffle, Nov 5, 2018.

?

Would you want to play an updated VS. Saxton Hale (v2.0+) on Skial's servers?

  1. Yes! I've played it before and find it to be plenty fun!

    15.8%
  2. Yes! I haven't tried it, but I really want to experience new things/see the servers update!

    42.1%
  3. Either way is cool by me. Que sera, sera.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. No! I haven't tried it but I'm already all settled in with what we've got.

    5.3%
  5. No! I've played it before and really prefer where we are now.

    36.8%
  1. Wheyloffle

    Wheyloffle Scarcely Lethal Noob

    Steam:

    I've looked over the forums and couldn't find a post about this.

    The fresher, more detailed Hale model and animations are sexy, the plague doctor is a lovely concept and a pretty fun new dimension to play imo, and *you get to pick your own boss*. I'm sure a lot of people, myself included, would have a lot of fun with a more up-to-date version.

    With the new hale model, I feel it's more than aesthetically cool. Since thePFA's model (the one used in v1.55) doesn't have custom animations and consequently borrows them from the soldier, a lot of times people confuse airborne trollgiers for Hale and will have a harder time seeing the real deal actually leaping over to them (especially on trollgier-rich maps like military_area and urban_works).

    I don't have much factual, non-opinionated stuff to say about the plague doctor lol. I mean, I really like it and find that people enjoy the new juggernaut-zombie survival cross breed gameplay this guy brings on the other servers I've played it on.

    Lastly, about the fact that you can pick your boss...
    In the current version (v1.55), some people in-game have a nasty habit of leaving the server whenever they're up to bat as Hale and they get a boss they don't like, shoving the next person in queue to play an oftentimes cruddy hale for whatever map they are on (like, say, HHH on dust_showdown or hakurei); it leaves your ability to perform well up to chance and can be really unfun as a consequence.

    I'd really like to see Skial upgrade to the sleek, obvious upgrade that is VSH2.0+. Multiple other popular VSH servers (such as DISC-FF) have made the change long ago and still seem to be kicking quite well.

    Thanks! :beercheers:
     
  2. Brandon MacDonald

    Brandon MacDonald Scarcely Lethal Noob

    Steam:

    GGWP +1000 for this to happen
     
  3. Bottiger

    Bottiger Administrator

    Steam:

    This is the wrong place for a suggestion.

    The updated models for saxton hale come from VSH 1.55, you don't get them from updating to VSH 2.0. I don't know why you think we are using the old models, we've had the new ones ever since 1.55 came out.

    There is really no new feature in VSH 2.0 other than the plague doctor. The last time I checked, it did not have a feature for choosing bosses, and I still don't know if there is one just from looking at the description.

    So there is not really a huge reason to switch.

    Some people also don't think bosses should be chosen because they don't want people to keep picking the same bosses over and over again. You can see why here. https://www.skial.com/threads/ability-to-change-hale-classes-in-saxton-hale-mode.79725/
     
  4. Wheyloffle

    Wheyloffle Scarcely Lethal Noob

    Steam:

    Whoops. I'm sorry this is in the wrong area -- typing it out initially it was meant more as a question with a poll. Idk why I tagged it as a suggestion anyway.

    The updated model (& animations) for Saxton Hale I'm talking about is here. It was made as an SFM model, but the creator also includes a version just for VSH. I made a mistake and assumed it accompanied the newest version, but it's definitely a separate download.


    As for being able to choose your boss, I've played every server that has the newest VSH plugin, and each one had the exact same !setboss feature. I've also searched the download thread itself, and the command !setboss does appear in there. I'm going to assume a little more and believe that it's deep set in the newest version of the plugin just like commands !resetq, !halenext, and so on.

    Continuing on, I didn't see much of a convincing argument against being able to pick your boss on the thread you linked other than "it's unnecessary" and a small fear that some bosses won't be picked on certain maps. The thing is, many maps aren't designed with a LOT of stuff in mind. 2towers_2spirals doesn't have the trollgier or sniper crowds in mind. Dust_showdown and hakurei both don't really have spy mains in mind. On top of this, the very poll they had in that thread showed a clean majority in favor of letting it be a thing.

    It's plainly not much different from letting red team players pick what they get to be based on what the map seems to favor, so why leave it up to chance for the guy who's been waiting his turn for several rounds of getting to be whatever he wanted to be only for him to get a really unfavorable Hale for the map when it's his turn and have an unlucky draw disadvantage. He may even, with 3 seconds before the round starts, disconnect and again, plop some unlucky soul in his place with no time to react and then their turn feels wasted on some bland Hale. This has personally happened to me at least twice and it blows.


    Also, it looks like the plague doctor is also a separate download, but it's provided on the face of the main thread.


    TL;DR: The new model and animations I was thinking about are indeed a separate download, but the ability to set your boss looks like it's definitely part of the newest versions and I still think it's worth the green light considering all polls on the subject point to a strong support for a !setboss feature. I still think updating the plugin with these things would absolutely be a breath of fresh air.
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2018
  5. jake.

    jake. Mildly Menacing Medic

    Steam:

    Thanks Whey! the server got updated
     
  6. jake.

    jake. Mildly Menacing Medic

    Steam:

    Hale is a big error sign btw
     
  7. Wheyloffle

    Wheyloffle Scarcely Lethal Noob

    Steam:

    That was fast. I see it's only on the US server. Noice.

    On one hand you get all the good changes with VSH 2, but on the other the mantreads aren't OP anymore :pensive: (also you can no longer concuss hale by shooting him with rockets -- that's probably for the best).


    Also you may have to restart the game to see him properly.
     
  8. jake.

    jake. Mildly Menacing Medic

    Steam:

    i think bottiger/admin fixed it. i saw i was downloading a hale model

    It's still an error sign. maybe the problem is on my side maybe it's not
     
  9. Wheyloffle

    Wheyloffle Scarcely Lethal Noob

    Steam:

    Thank you for trying it out on US, Bottiger! :blush:
     
  10. Sonasaki (Ray's Wife)

    Sonasaki (Ray's Wife) Mildly Menacing Medic

    Steam:

    Well I can say as a VSH "veteran" who played thousands thousands of hours VSH now feels kind of just broken.... playing skial VSH was about being just a classic VSH it was just the nine classes using their normal weapons agianst hale I even learned to rocket jump using the mantreads mod of 1.55 It's just not as fun anymore with the 2.00 update and doesn't feel like the same VSH I fell in love with it just wasn't an update thing represeted what people on VSH play on skial for which was for a normal VSH not what other Versus saxton hale servers. I in my opinion I think VSH should be reverted back to 1.55 with certain things from the 2.00 update like the BFB nerf, but the additions of easier rage and the removal of the mantreads jumping is just unecessary and I know who say this update makes things too OP and just not the origanal idea of "the nine classes versus hale" but that's just my opinion and bunch of other people on VSH.

    eg: sorry for the bad grammar I haven't had much sleep last night.
     
  11. Wheyloffle

    Wheyloffle Scarcely Lethal Noob

    Steam:

    The new version just takes some getting used to I think. I've played VSH for maybe a little under a thousand hours and still definitely stand by how I feel it's a major quality of life update.

    You didn't really convince me that it's now broken with what you provided. The classes' weapons were already heavily modified in 1.55 and before; many were critboosted, super buffed, or otherwise had the main traits that they were known for in a completely different world. Right now, they are simply different, meaning you will have to practice playing differently to see how it goes. It will take some time before people are able to look past the major changes and see if they really do prefer it overall.

    Not only that, but, again, looking at VSH2.0's main thread, it looks like the main developer (nergal) has designed the new plugin to be really open-ended and easy to work with if you want to modify aspects of it or put in new bosses with completely new gimmicks. It's specifically said that the syntax is way easier to read and consequently way easier to make small changes if one were to try to change a weapon's stats.

    It's also way easier said than done to go back to a past version and put in a feature you liked about the current one (the BFB nerf).


    I do agree with you that the mantreads are less fun as they are compared to as they were, but maybe with more playtesting will I change my mind. As it is now, with my potentially biased opinion, I'd ask for the mantreads to be brought up to, maybe, ~160% power (they feel like 120% or so, and they used to be 180%, which even in my opinion was a bit too much).

    Hale's jumps are stronger now, so rebuffing the mantreads should be a good compromise between him being able to catch trollgiers and the trollgiers being able to get away if skillful enough. Plus, as it is now, some maps may not play as well as they did (looking at urban_works). This is the biggest of the few gripes I have of VSH2 tho, and it's all still a net positive to me.


    Maybe we can request changes from now on and sort of build our own 'Skial version of VSH2', but I have no idea how the admins would feel about it nor do I exactly know if it's as easy as nergal made it sound.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2018
  12. Meowcenary

    Meowcenary TF2 Admin Contributor

    Steam:

    You guys could try asking for some changes in the suggestions section. If there's enough player demand for what ever it is maybe Bottiger will implement it

    I dunno what his stance is on doing modifications to VSH tho. But wouldn't hurt to try making a suggestions thread
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. jake.

    jake. Mildly Menacing Medic

    Steam:

    I like the new version. don't revert.
     
  14. xPuffs

    xPuffs Scarcely Lethal Noob

    Steam:

    The new update really was shocking to me, since I always play tf2 to get on a vsh skial server. After the update, playing hale is dreadful. Hale feels like a ragdoll getting slapped around until he rages! Everytime someone gets hale they either suicide due to the tragic stompfest they experienced previously, or they rage every few seconds (did hale rage got buffed?).
    The only good thing about this new update is the medic having the full 140% uber instead of only having 100% self uber and then being vulnerable at ~30-40%. Also the 50% uber loss when a medic gets punch is alright. The demo changes makes it weird to play him tbh. Although, I guess you can say its fair. (If you guys dont know what the change is.. demo primary loses crits when his shield is lost). Another good thing is do the haledmg plugin.

    I'm sure many of the regular skial players and I want the whole update to be reverted. If thats not possible then at least revert hale stats back. Also if you want us to suggest changes to the update I REALLY recommend making a list/post of all the changes (nerfs to weapons/character stats) the update did to the gamemode, since we pretty much went into this update completely clueless. I know that skial did not make the update and I found out that no one but the creator had any info on what is change to the gamemode and that is the part that irritates me the most. I believe Skial should contact the creator or at least beta test the update in a server.

    If changing bits of the update isnt possible... can you at LEAST make one of the skial vsh server the old saxton hale version?

    In summary, medic changes are alright, demo changes seems balance, every other weapon change is bad, hale gameplay sucks due to the constant need of rage to win, actually I prefer the old version. PLS REVERT.
     
  15. Meowcenary

    Meowcenary TF2 Admin Contributor

    Steam:

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