VSH v2 feedback thread

Discussion in 'Team Fortress 2' started by Meowcenary, Nov 6, 2018.

  1. Meowcenary

    Meowcenary TF2 Admin Contributor


    For organization purposes I figured it would be best to have a "main thread" for the feedback

    If you like or dislike the new mode please discuss so here. Tell us what you do / don't like about the mode and if you want it to be kept or reverted, or suggest possible changes to the current mode

    Class changes (thanks to @jake. for providing the screenshots)
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2018
  2. jake.

    jake. Mildly Menacing Medic


  3. Jephrey

    Jephrey Scarcely Lethal Noob


    In my opinion, here is what I think:

    1. Hale's Knockback, Damage Nerf and Other Things:
    - Playing as hale is really annoying now, you feel like a pinball constantly being knocked around. It's fine against low populations, but when against a full server of 29+, playing hale is next to impossible unless you're a seasoned veteran.
    - Hale only does 180 Damage per hit now. I don't understand this point, hale was already hard for a lot of players, but nerfing his damage just makes it worse.
    - Hale dies in 1 shot on from the train on skyhigh. plz fix
    - HHH's 10 climb limit, a minor one. To me it feels strange to add this in.

    2. Mantreads Being Removed:
    - Currently, this is a somewhat controversial topic, but I feel they should be put back in. I understand it was a pain to deal with soldiers using them, but using them was really fun and almost needed to market garden efficiently. I also believe that this might actually be a glitch because if you look up at the soldier's new stats, it clearly states that Mantreads still give a jump increase. Anyways, if they are implemented back, instead of removing the ability of higher jumps, just change the force to be a little less so that they are still usable, but that as strong.

    3. New Hale Designs and Animations:
    - This is definitely a keeper in my book. The new animations look sleek and nice, with Hale himself looking a lot more clean and fresh

    4. No Sniper Nerfs:
    - Sniper was always a powerful class, like on Urban, Toys, Weapons Depot, etc. The new update didn't do anything to change that. Instead of nerfing the knockback from the rifles or the damage, the update nerfed the Huntsman, a weapon that isn't even overpowered

    5. Medic Changes:
    - When hit, above 90% uber, you will survive it but lose 40% uber. This change seems reasonable, but the subtraction in uber is annoying for medics that are at 99% for example.
    - Kritzkreig Default? I really don't know why anytime you play as medic, all your skins, australiums, stranges, etc, default to a plain Kritzkreig for no reason. Hopefully a glitch.
    - Self Uber Chaining. I actually like this change, it's fun to uber chain by yourself, although it may be hard to deal with for newer hales.

    6. Spy Changes:
    - I'm gonna firstly mention his new needle gun. Spy already had efficient ways of obtaining damage in the thousands and doesn't need another toy to play with.
    - Uber and speed boost after backstab. I'm indifferent on it, but I can see newer hales despising it because they tend to rage instantly after being stabbed and the spy won't be affected

    That concludes my thoughts on the new update, I might update this every once and a while.
  4. Wheyloffle

    Wheyloffle Scarcely Lethal Noob Mapper


    A lot of those class changes are not accurate for some reason. For example, the sniper no longer has an SMG if he also wears any backpack, and the mantreads actually don't boost your rocket jumps at all.

    -With playtesting, it looks like medics might be super strong and potentially OP considering they can be a one man medichain. To get around this, Hales can often just jump away, but it looks like people generally have fun with this unless they are a Hale stuck in a small room full of medics.

    -Being able to set your boss sounds kinda popular from when I played.

    -The mantreads desperately need to boost rocket jumps at least by half the power they used to. Soldiers are never seen anymore because there's little incentive to play.

    -Also, it sounds like people feel the scout is also hardly viable anymore. I think this is because the BFB got nerfed, and I feel like it wasn't too hard to manage when you're Hale (you can just jump over/onto the scouts most of the time). Something needs to draw players to scout more, and I'm personally fine with the necessary evil that is rebuffing the baby face's blaster.

    -Doors act strangely on some maps and many seem to remain open all the time (at least on urban_works). This wasn't a problem before, and I don't know exactly if it can be linked to updating the plugin, but all the restaurant doors and the elevator access are constantly open strangely enough (red team can now access Hale's lift to the roof next to McHeavy's).

    -Last thing, and this is pretty big (ESPECIALLY on weaponsdepot). It seems like, if you're Hale and you get caught in an area where you take (a lot of?) environmental damage, you get sent straight back to your spawn instead of being given a super "duper" jump it seems. On weaponsdepot, your spawn gets locked down and you cannot leave, meaning if you get stuck in the water that hurts you and don't get out in time, you are sent back to your spawn and locked up. You can't suicide as hale, so most players have to quit and rejoin in the middle of their round and lose their chance at playing hale (sometimes with only like 3 red team players down and only a fifth of their health missing.

    • Please make it where you don't get sent back to spawn as Hale if you get stuck in a pit of env damage. It'd be best if the super "duper" jump made a return if it's not a serious pain to work back in.

    • Please rebuff the mantreads. They are next to useless.

    • The Baby Face's Blaster may have to be rebuffed. It's a necessary evil to give scout players more of an incentive to exist.

    The sniper's climbing ability is a nudge slower now, so he can't climb as high as he used to. I haven't tried this on Jurassic but I'm willing to bet it's a lot harder for them to at least perch up on the cliff ledges now (also Hale jumps higher now, so it may be entirely fine now outright).
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2018
  5. Wheyloffle

    Wheyloffle Scarcely Lethal Noob Mapper


    I can't edit my post anymore, but I TAKE BACK WHAT I SAID ABOUT REBUFFING THE BABY FACE. It is satan.
  6. xPuffs

    xPuffs Scarcely Lethal Noob


    1) I agree, spy nail gun is dumb.
    2) I think heavy dmg when healed by a medic should be booted out because if any hale get trapped by a heavy and medic with uber... thats like 11k health gone. Worst part of this is that the heavies wont even struggle with ammo due to the infinite ammo buff when ubered. (Talking bout military area small room)
    3) Hale Stats should be completely reverted. He is weak, gets rage too easily, and gets tossed around like a tennis ball.
    4) Mantreads, I agree with whey. Its possible to make mantreads usable while also balanced. I don’t recommend making them take more damage since that would just make them take healthpacks more from the team. Instead make their jump a little bit less higher than the older version and a bit higher in the newer version.
    5) Huntsman why was this even nerf?? If anything should be nerf, its the Sydney sleeper and sniper rifles.
    6) bfb haha idgaf
    7) I’m kinda sad that demo got nerfed but I guess he needed it.
  7. jake.

    jake. Mildly Menacing Medic


    Bring back bfb speed.
    Bring back mantreads.
    Bring back huntsman damage to 465 max.

    Also what do you guys think about the instant death telefrags? Yay or nay.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. xPuffs

    xPuffs Scarcely Lethal Noob


    Nay, ‘its over 9000’ lost its meaning. Also its gonna be too hard for players to do anything if the map forces them to get telefrag. For example, 2towerspirals (I think thats the map name) there are teleporters that leads to a room with no other entry points. This instakill telefrag would make it impossible for hale to win.
  9. Wheyloffle

    Wheyloffle Scarcely Lethal Noob Mapper


    Nay: Telefrags shouldn't be instant death, but they should still reward engies for clever setups with a hefty chunk of damage.
    Also, they don't give you fat points for the scoreboard anymore. It's one of the little things, but I'd kind of like to see that return.
  10. True Darkian

    True Darkian Spectacularly Lethal Soldier


    After I got to play the new VSH and seen these screenshots, I'm gonna give my opinion:

    (+ = Positive opinion, - = Negative opinion, ? = Unsure)


    + Saxton Hale's model looks very good, reminds me of Jungle Inferno SFM, his punch animations are a bit weird, but he has it's own taunt at last!
    ? HHH Jr has some sort of "Climbing" counter, is this a limit how many times he can climb until it can't anymore until it touches the ground? I am unsure.
    - Saxton Hale deals less damage now than before! (Lower than 202)

    + Stats seem to be mostly the same, wait... Back Scatter deals crits now on the back? YES!
    + R.I.P Baby Face Blaster?


    ? From the stats it says the Mantreads still give a greater rocket jump and even negates fall damage, But people say the mantreads rocket jump got ruined?

    + With great teamwork, the Third Degree giving ubers to your pocket medics can be useful if done correctly.
    - Chargeable airblast with the Backburner? So you mean that Pyro's airblasting hales is even worse now?

    + Seems mostly the same, the taunt kill gives 4 heads thing seems useful, but what's the chance of actually hitting that?

    - Miniguns deal 25(%?) more damage when being healed by a Medic, which is almost always.
    - Shotguns give damage back as health, So a Heavy can just stay alive if he's a shotgun pro?

    ? Telefrags one hit all the time now, Makes noob hales not get a single chance to fight back after losing 9001 anymore.

    Having 90% or higher uber protects you from 1 hit, but you lose 40%? Well, I can live with that.
    ? According to a post from Jephrey, you can uber chain yourself? How? By taunting with the Kritzrieg?
    - Uber giving infinite ammo until the uber is depleted makes Engineers barely needed anymore for trap rooms like in Toys or Urban Works.

    + This update made the delay between climb wallhits with a melee slightly longer, making it slightly harder to climb now, However, the Weaponsdepot tower is still climbable.
    + The Shooting Star deals equal damage to the Machina now, Finally!

    ? Unsure if invis watches or the Dead Ringer have been changed this update.
    - I've heard people using a pistol as Spy, supposing to be a Nail Gun, Why? The revolver was enough already.

    Also, what is the command to set your hale?
    I don't see the command in /halehelp.
  11. Wheyloffle

    Wheyloffle Scarcely Lethal Noob Mapper


    It's !setboss or !sethale
  12. White Moose

    White Moose Totally Ordinary Human


    -1 for telefrag instakills ( think of the map toys)
    -1 for sticky jump nerf
    +1 for rest of changes
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2018
    • Like Like x 1
  13. sehcturc

    sehcturc Truly Feared Pyro Contributor

    the previous version was just fine, the biggest loss to me is the mantreads nerf, a lot of us can't do the usual market garden load out, makes it boring to play now; I'm going to wait until they hopefully change it back.

    Nail guns?
    all this stuff is pointless to a lot of spy mains. Or anyone in general.

  14. True Darkian

    True Darkian Spectacularly Lethal Soldier


    Alright, thank you.
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